The Cam and Vala discussion thread

[the fifth man]

You make it sound like Mitchell screws up every other second he's on screen. The only time he possibly "screwed up" was in Prototype for pushing the wrong button. And there were a couple of other times where fans thought he'd screwed up, but it wasn't clear that anyone felt that way on screen (Off the Grid, Stronghold). But those incidents were way back in the middle of S9.

Since then, Mitchell has been exremely competent and strong and hasn't made any mistakes at all. Isn't it time to move on from the tired old refrain of implying that he messes up constantly?

And I'm not even going to mention how Carter messed up in

Spoiler:

The Insiders this season.

Cam definitely doesn't mess up all the time. He's become a very competent member of SG-1 IMO over the course of the last season.

[Farscapefan]

OK, I'm trying to be nice here - which is a stretch as people who know me will tell you.

I have no problem with change, and nor do most people. Change and evolving is what got us out of the trees and on to sofas, after all.

But will everyone just stop bleedin' well assuming that because the show changed and people don't like that it is because they can' accept change?

Change can be good - after all, Sam changed from a bolshy "I'm better than guys and I can prove it" to a competent team member. Daniel evolved from the almost aimless anti-military geek that jumped after Shayla (was it her?) to someone who could handle a weapon without looking as though it was going to bite him. Teal'c learned how to tell jokes.

The show ebbed and flowed and changed direction and for the most part it was wonderful.

then...

BAM!

we get hit in the face with two totally new characters (not to mention Landry and the insipid doctor) who are so in your face and gung-ho about it that they were impossible to avoid.

That looked like an audience grabbing stunt. And yes, it seems to have grabbed an audience. A large part of the audience (online at least) seem to have drifted along with it. Some prefer it.

Some of us think it's a load of poo - but our opinion isn't allowed to count in the face of a barrage of "you just can't accept change, you old gits"

Well... I remember when (now) aging rockers hoped they would die before they get old and didn't trust anyone over 30. But guess what? they changed. We all change. We don't have to accept change for change's sake - we stick with what we like.

And if we don't like,well... we're allowed to talk about that to. Bu don't get dismissive. Because some of us also have sharp pointy teeth.
:-)

First of all, you wasn't hit in the face with Vala's character. She was introduced in season 8 and originally was supposed to be just guest, one time character, but due to Claudia's great performance and talent they decided to invite her for more episodes. And then for an entire new season. Let me ask you a question. Would you be saying exactly the same, if stupid and greedy Skiffy agreed to rename the show into Stargate Command and season 9 was actually a season 1 of the new season, as it was planned by Cooper and Wright?

[KatG]

Sorry, Kat, I copied the wrong quote. I edited my post to show the correct one.

I had fun with it so no worries.

[ShardsofGlass]

see, this is where the whole "subjective" thing comes in. i personally DO see him screwing up a lot, even now (Uninvited, for instance). i see him screwing up in OTG and stronghold, and i have my own opinion as to why there was no reaction of screen. i don’t think i’ve had a single episode where Mitchell appears to be “extremely competent and strong”. In fact, i’m not sure I’ve had an entire scene. crazy how people have different opinions, huh?

Funny. I can't imagine how you can see any of that. At all. Are we watching the same show?

[ParadoxRealities]

Funny. I can't imagine how you can see any of that. At all. Are we watching the same show?

that's interesting. because i can see why you wouldn't. i just don't agree. at all. the show? is it that one that just got canceled? then yes.

[Farscapefan]

Funny. I can't imagine how you can see any of that. At all. Are we watching the same show?

Rewatching season 9 from DVDs now and reading majority of negative opinions I'm wondering exactly the same thing. I'm sure they're watching completely different show, although it's name is the same.

[the fifth man]

Rewatching season 9 from DVDs now and reading majority of negative opinions I'm wondering exactly the same thing. I'm sure they're watching completely different show, although it's name is the same.

People see what they see. We can't change that, and shouldn't try. They didn't like it, I'm sorry for that. Those of us that did should just enjoy it.

[ParadoxRealities]

First of all, you wasn't hit in the face with Vala's character. She was introduced in season 8 and originally was supposed to be just guest, one time character, but due to Claudia's great performance and talent they decided to invite her for more episodes. And then for an entire new season. Let me ask you a question. Would you be saying exactly the same, if stupid and greedy Skiffy agreed to rename the show into Stargate Command and season 9 was actually a season 1 of the new season, as it was planned by Cooper and Wright?

personally, I felt hit in the face, and i like Vala (for the most part). would i be saying the same? i know, not directed at me. yes, i would be. the introduction/integration just wasn't as smooth as i would have liked it to be, even knowing it would happen and (hypothetically) on a different show.

[suse]

It may not be perfect at times but for the most part it is except for Sam and Cam being the same rank. Other than that it is, but I and the whole base enjoy it and realize it is a show, but the Military part of it is usually pretty acurate.

All Better now!

Even as an Army brat I know it doesn't even have a nodding aquaintance with accurate!


Suse

[Shipperahoy]

My problem with the Mitchell character isn't that I think he's incompetent or gung-ho, it's that, for me, there wasn't much in the way of character development so I didn't really care about him one way or t'other. As far as Vala goes my problem with her is that a little bit goes a LOOOOONG way. The one off episode of Prometheus Unbound was one thing but the Vala show of the first half of season 9 was way too much for me. Her greed, avarice, kittenish sexuality, and quips did not fit in to what I considered to be Stargate. Not to mention the fact that so much of the storylines were focused on her that the other characters were pushed to the background, most noticably Mitchell who was a new character and badly needed to be established.

The sad thing is that, for me, season 10 has improved leaps and bounds over 9. During season 9 I started not really caring much about the show and stopped recording it and rewatching it. This season I've started looking forward to Friday nights and a lot of my problems with the Vala and Mitchell characters have, if not disapeared completely, mellowed quite a bit.

[KatG]

Yes I am an Air Force Major and my comanding officer is still very fond of the show.

Wow! A major. You must have been in for awhile huh? Are you career or reserves? Have you been overseas recently fighting?

Just being curious.

[Major Clanger]

First of all, you wasn't hit in the face with Vala's character. She was introduced in season 8 and originally was supposed to be just guest, one time character, but due to Claudia's great performance and talent they decided to invite her for more episodes. And then for an entire new season. Let me ask you a question. Would you be saying exactly the same, if stupid and greedy Skiffy agreed to rename the show into Stargate Command and season 9 was actually a season 1 of the new season, as it was planned by Cooper and Wright?

*files teeth*

I think I was hit in the face. I believe I was hit repeatedly in the face with a Vala that I almost didn't recognise. And because I believe it, it must be true. Or something like that.

I thought Claudia Black's performance was pretty good in PU. It made me hopeful when I heard she was coming back.

I'm not that bothered about the name of the show. Unlike a lot of people who watch, I have been a member of the military, in an extremely sensitive team-oriented job. I am perfectly well aware that the name stays the same, despite the fact that the members change. Heck, I'm used to some of my favourite bands evolving into different things through members changing.

That's not my beef.

My beef is that I believe 2 characters have been inappropriately shoehorned into somewhere they don't fit. Which in itself isn't bad - but I also believe that their introduction to both the team and the fans (who are, after all, the bottom line, the bums on the proverbial seats) was inadequately and incompentently handled.

I quite like the idea of what Cooper and Wright planned - however I'm not one to blindly follow a name and swear up and down that they are brilliant just because I've liked what they have done in the past. Each performance or piece of writing must stand or fall on its own merits, not on what it has been.

The fact that Black was available, and that the PU Vala was such an interesting character was probably a big factor in the re-introduction of that character. The fact that they somehow thought that they had to fill their quota of women in the show while AT was off having a baby is patronising in the extreme - but I can live with it.

What some people can't accept (and I have been in the fandom for a long time, believe me when I say there is nothing new under te sun) is that we all have diffeent opinions.

You very obviously think that when Claudia Black bends over, the sun comes out. That is your right, and I believe you're not alone because I remember at least one person posting here (on GW, not necessarily in this thread) who had a similar opinion.

I very obviously believe that the character has been changed beyond almost all recognition, and has been foisted and forced upon us in doses that haven't allowed us to step back and breathe.

That doesn't give anyone the right to tell me that something I think happened to me didn't. I was there when I was repeatedly hit in the face with Vala, and believe me, I did not enjoy it one bit.

My feelings about Mitchell are even more negative.

[Farscapefan]

My problem with the Mitchell character isn't that I think he's incompetent or gung-ho, it's that, for me, there wasn't much in the way of character development so I didn't really care about him one way or t'other. As far as Vala goes my problem with her is that a little bit goes a LOOOOONG way. The one off episode of Prometheus Unbound was one thing but the Vala show of the first half of season 9 was way too much for me. Her greed, avarice, kittenish sexuality, and quips did not fit in to what I considered to be Stargate. Not to mention the fact that so much of the storylines were focused on her that the other characters were pushed to the background, most noticably Mitchell who was a new character and badly needed to be established.

The thing is that if you're inviting an actor/actress as a SPECIAL GUEST STAR just for several episodes, he/she is actually the main character in these episodes. If the first six episodes of season 9 weren't focused on Vala, her being there would have been actually totally pointless.

[Major Clanger]

but then, selling a show as Stargate SG-1 (team show) and focussing on only one (maybe 2) characters, only one of whom is in SG-1 is just impolite.

[OberonSky]

Also people differ in their tolerance, ok let me for example rate the show in its recent direction:

If I give Stargate SG-1's best episode (too many to count) a 10/10
.. and the worst episode to ME (Citizen Joe, that barber guy) a 5/10

The rest of the episodes to ME fall in-between. So if Seasons 9 and10 are not as perfect as some of the episodes from previous seasons, they are still "good" to me.

Problem is, some people rate the worst episode at 2/10 or even a 0/10 to them the episodes are not even worth watching .. to me anything Stargate IS worth watching some more than others but ALL are still good.

Now if I were a writer on SG-1, I would do the following to make seasons 9 and 10 better (close to perfection 10/10 etc):

1) Vala's scene with the Senators (appropriations committee?) was wayy over the top. tone that down.

2) Remember the episode where vala was taking mental/psychiatric tests, I would have made her joke a little at first THEN be confronted by Gen.Landry that if she does not take things seriously she will be booted period. Then make her go through (Stargate Bootcamp) .. training grounds / proving grounds like episode. Make her alter her attitude from 100% runaround do crazy things to 10% or so ..

3) Avoid the scene were she looked like she was leading an SG team. Make it perfectly clear she is ONLY following to learn and help not lead or take initiative (most of the time) with very few far and in-between her acting on her own during this season .. wait another season before moving her to the front line.

4) Cut her joking to only occur before missions and after missions. With VERY RARE jokes in-between .. SHOW gen.Landry / Col.Mitchel giving her hard time for not following orders.

5) Expand on the way Col.Mitchel said that he does not feel he is in charge and that he is not effectively commanding the team with everyone doing their own thing. Make a BIG deal out of it and make Gen.Landry put people on notice that the chain of command MUST be followed.

6) Finally, never ever would I have allowed Sam to make that mistake of giving the database to Ba'al. Make him take it any other way but not by Sam.

So, to me, THESE few changes along with making Vala go through SG-Bootcamp training (either show it on screen or talk about it to let us know she IS being trained), would make the 8/10 or 7/10 episodes in these last 2 seasons reach 10/10.

Bottomline, Vala in her current form does not fit in a military based SG-team at all. Writers need to change her from the pigtailed princess to a more mature team-member with the occasional light joke.