Whose more threatening Ori or Wraiths invading the milkyway

[Oranos]

Ascending does give you SOME knowledge of the universe, and Daniel had all the Ancients knowledge implanted into his subconcious.

No. Daniel admits that ascending doesn't make you all knowing or give any further information. One learns from the journey, more or less.

NO, the HUMANS first discovered the repository in The Fifth Race. Listen to what the Asgard say:
"you looked into the archive that stores all the Ancients knowledge"
"apparently"
"it was not meant for you"

So clearly they already know about it then. And further in New Order a direct quote from Thor:

"Long ago scientists extracted PARTS of the Ancients library of knowledge in order to learn its secrets. We learned much, but we have been studying it for as long as I can remember, and we have barely scratched the surface."

Yes, but you also made my case. They extracted parts of it then. That Asgard hand device thingy stored what Jack learned from the rest of the archive though. Though at the time they extracted the information, they still would have been at war with the Replicators, meaning that they couldn't devote a lot to the studying of the information that they retreived.

No, the Wraith beat the Lanteans in the Pegasus. Remember Wraith hyperdrives are so bad they can barely fly around the Pegasus, let alone go somewhere else.

And all we ever heard of the Ancients being in the Pegasus was Atlantis, and we discover one other City ship, plus the Asurans. However we never see any evidence that EITHER of those were fighting WITH Atlantis against the Wraith. They only ever say that Atlantis was fighting.
We don't know how many ships the Ancients had, but we discover at least 2, 1 destroyed and 1 just in need of some maintenance.
ANNDDD the Wraith never actually destroyed Atlantis. The Lanteans just got fed up with it and left. Why they left the city behind is beyond me. Remember that Atlantis is still completely intact, clearly it hasn't been destroyed or "beaten".

Actually, the Wraith beat the Lantean fleet. I forget what episode it is but it is clearly stated that the Ancients sent their warships in an attempt to negotiate peace with the wraith but they were destroyed. So the Wraith didn't need a hyperdrive to defeat the fleet. And the Aurora and the Orion hardly count as a fleet, especially with the condition they were in. Sheppard states that it looked like the Aurora was in one hell of a battle and Ronon adds in the part about it losing. The Orion, though in better state, was still in pretty poor condition. The Orion was presumably unable to even use drones.
The Lanteans left their city because they knew they couldn't win the war. It was stated that they won almost every battle but they saw no win to win that very war that we are speaking about.
The map in 'Rising' shows red dots spreading over just about every planet in Pegasus. It is logical to assume that more than Atlantis was involved.

I don't see any evidence that the Ancients fled from the Ori. The Ancients were benevolent and spent all their time trying to better themselves, eventually ascending. Their is no evidence that they did it to escape the Ori, and certainly they don't seem to worried about them right now.

In Avalon Part 2, the book Daniel is reading from basically proves this. The Alterrans left and built many stargates and junk. The Ancients basically went into hiding from the Ori. How would you know whether or not the Ancients or worried? We really haven't seen much to suggest that, though Orlin did help. Though his attitude on the matter didn't show either way.

[Jimbo-DR]

No. Daniel admits that ascending doesn't make you all knowing or give any further information. One learns from the journey, more or less.

Daniel has the knowledge of the Ancients in his subconcious when he comes back. He says ascending doesn't make you all knowing, but it clearly gives you the knowledge to control things. Wind, Rain, that kind of stuff.

Yes, but you also made my case. They extracted parts of it then. That Asgard hand device thingy stored what Jack learned from the rest of the archive though. Though at the time they extracted the information, they still would have been at war with the Replicators, meaning that they couldn't devote a lot to the studying of the information that they retreived.

If you had actually read what I wrote you would never have bothered to type that. The Asgard already knew about the Library of knowledge based on their behavior in The Fifth Race.

Plus, why would it make sense to find the repository but just wait until some unwitting human looked into it to extract the information? That makes absolutely zero sense.

In the episode "new Order", Thor is quoted:

THOR: You cannot even begin to comprehend the extent of what was unfolding in O'Neill's mind. Our scientists, long ago, extracted parts of the Ancient library of knowledge and learned much from it. But we have been studying it for as long as I can remember, and we have barely scratched the surface.

Thor has presumably been alive for thousands of years, giving that he is the Supreme Commander of the Asgard fleet and the Asgard cloning technology.
If the Asgard have been studying PARTS of something that long and have "barely scratched the surface" I think its safe to say that its pretty complicated stuff.

Actually, the Wraith beat the Lantean fleet. I forget what episode it is but it is clearly stated that the Ancients sent their warships in an attempt to negotiate peace with the wraith but they were destroyed. So the Wraith didn't need a hyperdrive to defeat the fleet. And the Aurora and the Orion hardly count as a fleet, especially with the condition they were in. Sheppard states that it looked like the Aurora was in one hell of a battle and Ronon adds in the part about it losing. The Orion, though in better state, was still in pretty poor condition. The Orion was presumably unable to even use drones.
The Lanteans left their city because they knew they couldn't win the war. It was stated that they won almost every battle but they saw no win to win that very war that we are speaking about.
The map in 'Rising' shows red dots spreading over just about every planet in Pegasus. It is logical to assume that more than Atlantis was involved.

This is speculation. Until I have a direct quote that says Atlantis even HAD a fleet(unlikely, giving that Atlantis would NOT house a good sized fleet), I'm not going to comment further on it.

In Avalon Part 2, the book Daniel is reading from basically proves this. The Alterrans left and built many stargates and junk. The Ancients basically went into hiding from the Ori. How would you know whether or not the Ancients or worried? We really haven't seen much to suggest that, though Orlin did help. Though his attitude on the matter didn't show either way.

No... it says the Alterrans traveled the stars and built many "Asteria Porta" or Stargates. It says NOTHING about them fleeing from anything, and doesn't even mention the Ori.

[Oranos]

Daniel has the knowledge of the Ancients in his subconcious when he comes back. He says ascending doesn't make you all knowing, but it clearly gives you the knowledge to control things. Wind, Rain, that kind of stuff.

Which Jackson learned.

If you had actually read what I wrote you would never have bothered to type that. The Asgard already knew about the Library of knowledge based on their behavior in The Fifth Race.

Plus, why would it make sense to find the repository but just wait until some unwitting human looked into it to extract the information? That makes absolutely zero sense.

In the episode "new Order", Thor is quoted:

THOR: You cannot even begin to comprehend the extent of what was unfolding in O'Neill's mind. Our scientists, long ago, extracted parts of the Ancient library of knowledge and learned much from it. But we have been studying it for as long as I can remember, and we have barely scratched the surface.

Thor has presumably been alive for thousands of years, giving that he is the Supreme Commander of the Asgard fleet and the Asgard cloning technology.
If the Asgard have been studying PARTS of something that long and have "barely scratched the surface" I think its safe to say that its pretty complicated stuff.

And being as how they wouldn't have been eliminating the Goa'uld, it is safe to assume that they were at war with the Replicators at that point in time. In the commentaries, tptb state that is the reason they needed the Replicators. When you are at war there is only so much you can devote to the front lines, research etc. A lot of Asgard resources were devoted to actual fighting and the new O'Neill class ships.

This is speculation. Until I have a direct quote that says Atlantis even HAD a fleet(unlikely, giving that Atlantis would NOT house a good sized fleet), I'm not going to comment further on it.

And it is CLEARY STATED that they had a fleet that got owned by the wraith. I forgot what episode it was, but I think perhaps the Hologram in Rising or another ep or one of the Ancients in Before I Sleep said as such that there was an Ancient fleet that tried to negotiate for peace but was destroyed. So it is not speculation. It is fact.

No... it says the Alterrans traveled the stars and built many "Asteria Porta" or Stargates. It says NOTHING about them fleeing from anything, and doesn't even mention the Ori.

Actually you left out a very important line before that. It says that the Alterrans left their home. The Ori and Ancients were once one race who had the difference of opinion in religion and science. So they broke apart; the Ancients being the ones who fled.

[mahram]

no they didnt go into hiding. I remember an episode where they said they left, b/c they didnt want to fight. I think they wanted to avoid a war.

No. Daniel admits that ascending doesn't make you all knowing or give any further information. One learns from the journey, more or less.




Yes, but you also made my case. They extracted parts of it then. That Asgard hand device thingy stored what Jack learned from the rest of the archive though. Though at the time they extracted the information, they still would have been at war with the Replicators, meaning that they couldn't devote a lot to the studying of the information that they retreived.



Actually, the Wraith beat the Lantean fleet. I forget what episode it is but it is clearly stated that the Ancients sent their warships in an attempt to negotiate peace with the wraith but they were destroyed. So the Wraith didn't need a hyperdrive to defeat the fleet. And the Aurora and the Orion hardly count as a fleet, especially with the condition they were in. Sheppard states that it looked like the Aurora was in one hell of a battle and Ronon adds in the part about it losing. The Orion, though in better state, was still in pretty poor condition. The Orion was presumably unable to even use drones.
The Lanteans left their city because they knew they couldn't win the war. It was stated that they won almost every battle but they saw no win to win that very war that we are speaking about.
The map in 'Rising' shows red dots spreading over just about every planet in Pegasus. It is logical to assume that more than Atlantis was involved.





In Avalon Part 2, the book Daniel is reading from basically proves this. The Alterrans left and built many stargates and junk. The Ancients basically went into hiding from the Ori. How would you know whether or not the Ancients or worried? We really haven't seen much to suggest that, though Orlin did help. Though his attitude on the matter didn't show either way.

[konartis]

i would say the wraith would be more threatening.they will do anything to eat us and they can just make hundreds and hundreds of ships like they did in pegasus. and destroy all races that threaten them in eating

[Oranos]

no they didnt go into hiding. I remember an episode where they said they left, b/c they didnt want to fight. I think they wanted to avoid a war.

Of course they've been hiding. What do you think they have been doing all this time? The Ancients have managed to keep the Milky Way a secret from the Ori by hiding .

[SpikeBad]

I still want to see the Ori invade the Pegasus Galaxy. If they learned of Earths location from Daniel then they would also have learned the location of Atlantis as well. I really want to see the Wraith go up against the Ori.

[mahram]

No, they ran away. there not hiding. there hiding the milky way humans from the ori. Theres a diffrence.

Of course they've been hiding. What do you think they have been doing all this time? The Ancients have managed to keep the Milky Way a secret from the Ori by hiding .

[Jimbo-DR]

How do you translate "They left their home" to "They ran away like little girls and are now hiding".

Your like making up your own plots.

[Peoples_General]

Just a lil theory here...

The Ancients most likely had a small fleet in Pegasus. Atlantis, "The Tower", the Asuran city-ship (before being taken by the Asurans), some yet to be discovered capital ships, and the bulk of the Ancient fleet being the "Aurora Class" ships.

The rest of the war was most likely fought by humans who were at Tollan or even Aschen level of tech. Fighting the Wraith all over the galaxy... as I somehow doubt that a single Wraith would be alive today if the Ancients themselves had complete run of the Pegasus Galaxy. So the Ancients had a galaxy full of these high-tech human cultures for Allies... thus the hologram map showing the area under the Ancient's control. It like how you have the US leading NATO.

This IMO, is the reason why the Ancients and their "human allies" lost the war. I really seen NO WAY for the Wraith to beat the Ancients, considering how a mere satellite can annihilate a Hiveship.

Most of the fighting was done by peons (at least compared to the Ancients). Look at how the Athosians have that "fire-starter" lighter that flings flames, and of how they had a ruined city on their old homeworld. Ronon's civilization was pretty advanced, the civilization of those two old-folks-in-a-space-can from Duet had space-flight tech, and the civilization from Trinity also had an advanced looking city.

[mahram]

yes but in ascended form, the ori knew where the ancients where. In ascension they clearly werent hiding. They were on the same advance plane as the ori. Those the ancients where masking the milky way from the ori.

How do you translate "They left their home" to "They ran away like little girls and are now hiding".

Your like making up your own plots.

[mahram]

I dont know why the anicents didnt use that life destroying or creating device to fight the wraith. Not on a planetary scale but like one on one ship style.

Just a lil theory here...

The Ancients most likely had a small fleet in Pegasus. Atlantis, "The Tower", the Asuran city-ship (before being taken by the Asurans), some yet to be discovered capital ships, and the bulk of the Ancient fleet being the "Aurora Class" ships.

The rest of the war was most likely fought by humans who were at Tollan or even Aschen level of tech. Fighting the Wraith all over the galaxy... as I somehow doubt that a single Wraith would be alive today if the Ancients themselves had complete run of the Pegasus Galaxy. So the Ancients had a galaxy full of these high-tech human cultures for Allies... thus the hologram map showing the area under the Ancient's control. It like how you have the US leading NATO.

This IMO, is the reason why the Ancients and their "human allies" lost the war. I really seen NO WAY for the Wraith to beat the Ancients, considering how a mere satellite can annihilate a Hiveship.

Most of the fighting was done by peons (at least compared to the Ancients). Look at how the Athosians have that "fire-starter" lighter that flings flames, and of how they had a ruined city on their old homeworld. Ronon's civilization was pretty advanced, the civilization of those two old-folks-in-a-space-can from Duet had space-flight tech, and the civilization from Trinity also had an advanced looking city.