S10: Critique & Contemplation

[astrogeologist]

Even the eps that didn't go down the road of accidental? parody just fell a bit flat for me. Maybe because I didn't like or care about the main characters (Vaniel). Cam was forced on us in S9 to the point where I hated to see him on screen most of the time.

So much of SG1 depends on liking the team--at least for me.

TPTB seemed to think we'd shift our allegiance from the Big 3 to Jackson (the ***) a new "sexy alien" (remember how many people disliked Anise--the 7 of 9 of stargate? maybe they thought Anise's problem was that she didn't throw around innuendo to go along with her tight outfits ) and a cartoon character "commander." What show did they think we'd been watching for 8 years? Certainly not the one they thought we had.

At least they seem to have learned the forcefeeding lesson w/ Atlantis re: Carter. Unfortunately we haven't seen much of her yet, so it's hard to know if the wallpapering will continue...

The original SG-1 somehow complemented each other and, to me at least, it really did look like a team.

Seasons 9 & 10 did not bring Mitchell, or Vala, into that 'team feeling' for me. Instead, The Team was destroyed and then the pieces were mish-mashed back together... and some pieces (Jackson) were distorted to fit into the new puzzle. The New Team didn't click when it was working from the ashes of two contemporaneous scifi shows (FarGate/FarceGate).

And the way that things were *forced* onto the audience (that's the way it felt to me). Mitchell was forced into the show and the characters, the team and show were dismantled so that they could rebuild it around him. Vala, in concept, could have worked - but again, it was too *forced*, too brash, too in-your-face (or my face, I suppose) - too much for comedy and ridiculousness.

Some of the worst 'gaggers' were when they made episode '200' about celebrating Mitchell. Gag! He should have been someone who got to participate in the party and the festivities, but it should have been a tribute to the original cast, the original 4, their missions, their history and exploits. There should have been fond mention of Janet and Jacob and Hammond.

The Wizard of Oz scene. Many dedicated fans would have loved to see that scene over the past couple of years - but then TPTB raped and destroyed the scene by putting in Mitchell and Vala instead of O'Neill and Carter - who were both there for episode 200. That definitely came across to me as a virtual 'finger' to the longer-term fans. (Here's the New Team - take it or leave it... and we never liked the Original Team anyway, couldn't wait to get rid of them). Pretty ridiculous and insulting to have the Wizard of Oz scene with the 2 newbies when the original 4 were all present. And the Wizard of Oz references made no sense for Stargate Command - it was part of O'Neill's SG-1 tapestry.

Each thing, by itself, is not perhaps too big a deal. But the sum total of what was done to SG-1 between Seasons 8 & 9 is pretty mind-boggling.

[RealmOfX]

Oh, I had to inform some people at work about AOT being out so lets make sure I give them the right information.

Spoiler:

Better then expected but:
* Carter working with Super Cam to stop RepliNID
* Teal'c wandering around himself probably on some jaffa revenge or being tortured thing.
* No Vaniel
* No real stargate activity (as in the actual device "the stargate")
* Vala working with Daniel and Tomlin? Or was Daniel off by himself somplace.
* Presumably lots of big explosions when the effects are added.
* Oma and Anubis duke it out.... I mean Adria and some ancient person.

So is that right, or wrong and should I add or delete anything. I forgot to tell them about the Oma/Anubis thing. They know I am biased toward the negative as I make that abundantly clear, but I do try to give them something of a pic of what to expect and then they can self edit it based upon what I have told them in the past. They keep asking me about spoilers though so I guess what I get from this thread and others must be good enough.

Ironically one of the fellows who thinks I am too negative toward S9-S10 is really hating Atlantis this year...whereas I am OK with it. I am not loving it but not close to hating it (well except the one ep where TPTB proved again their lack of understanding what constitutes decent human behavior).

Oh he did tell me he found out over the holidays that he was suprised to find out his sister dispises S9-S10 as much as me and for many of the same reasons. So its not JUST me.... not that it would change my OPINION if it was... but somehow I always get a warm fuzzy feeling when people recongnize crp from greatness like Classic SG-1.

Yeah you did leave something out, something that really used to bug me in S9 & 10 - Cambo running off by himself when he shouldn't.

Spoiler:

Watching the opening minutes I was struck by the thought that Coop seemed to have been pissed off by people not liking his Hewo and the whole co command thing and so he deliberately only had Mitchell communicating with Landry to establish the alpha maleness. Then to make it absolutely certain that the Hewo is in charge Landry assigns him to command the Oddy (an absolute joke but it ranks right up there with the inexperienced male taking the leadership from da girl because... well because) and a throw away line about those in command having to make decisions <GAG>

So where am I going with this? Well after establishing that the Male Must Lead, we once again have Cambo the Hewo abandoning his post (this time the Bridge) and runs off by himself to hunt dem rascally mechanical arachnids and won't tell the crew where he's going; just a flip remark about following the bees to the honey (I think, I won't watch it again at this stage to find out for sure). Of course it's another boring, long and drawn out useless fight where Cambo gets his arse kicked.

Same old, same old from S9 & 10. Same patchy plots that a kindergarten could kick holes in but with a better soundtrack.

[Sg Gato]

SNIP
AOT

Spoiler:

Watching the opening minutes I was struck by the thought that Coop seemed to have been pissed off by people not liking his Hewo and the whole co command thing and so he deliberately only had Mitchell communicating with Landry to establish the alpha maleness. Then to make it absolutely certain that the Hewo is in charge Landry assigns him to command the Oddy (an absolute joke but it ranks right up there with the inexperienced male taking the leadership from da girl because... well because) and a throw away line about those in command having to make decisions <GAG>

Yeah, that was hard for me to watch as well.

Spoiler:

Another part that really irked me was when Mitchell asked if Sam wanted command after his encounter with the IOA stooge and she said nooooo-- he can have it. I believe it was meant to be a joke but it fell flat to me.

[RealmOfX]

Spoiler:

Another part that really irked me was when Mitchell asked if Sam wanted command after his encounter with the IOA stooge and she said nooooo-- he can have it. I believe it was meant to be a joke but it fell flat to me.

I actually blocked that one from my mind. I actually yelled out BS when I saw that scene, quickly followed by a not nice thought about RCC. The polite version was this is RCC's way of saying "See!!! The girl doesn't want command!!"

The whole male must lead mentality that pervades the entertainment industry really irks me. There are notable exceptions but then that's all they are - exceptions from the norm, this is the 21st century isn't it? Personally I don't care if a male or female is lead just let it be natural.

I think I'll stop now otherwise I'm going to start on another Lt Colonel Greenie rant. All I'll say is that the unprofessional officer that they portrayed in Stargate Command continued with his stupid antics in AoT.

[silkie]

I actually blocked that one from my mind. I actually yelled out BS when I saw that scene, quickly followed by a not nice thought about RCC. The polite version was this is RCC's way of saying "See!!! The girl doesn't want command!!"

The whole male must lead mentality that pervades the entertainment industry really irks me. There are notable exceptions but then that's all they are - exceptions from the norm, this is the 21st century isn't it? Personally I don't care if a male or female is lead just let it be natural.

I think I'll stop now otherwise I'm going to start on another Lt Colonel Greenie rant. All I'll say is that the unprofessional officer that they portrayed in Stargate Command continued with his stupid antics in AoT.

Chill out! There's a reason why Sam is in command of Atlantis now and not Cam, and it's not just Amanda's popularity - Sam's simply much more convincing in a leading role than Cammie. I hated that scene also - where is the Sam who in "Lost City" relieved Jack of command and ordered him to take a look at the planet were they found the ZPM???

[Mandysg1]

I actually blocked that one from my mind. I actually yelled out BS when I saw that scene, quickly followed by a not nice thought about RCC. The polite version was this is RCC's way of saying "See!!! The girl doesn't want command!!"

The whole male must lead mentality that pervades the entertainment industry really irks me. There are notable exceptions but then that's all they are - exceptions from the norm, this is the 21st century isn't it? Personally I don't care if a male or female is lead just let it be natural.

I think I'll stop now otherwise I'm going to start on another Lt Colonel Greenie rant. All I'll say is that the unprofessional officer that they portrayed in Stargate Command continued with his stupid antics in AoT.

You're absolutely right, I had the same feeling with the stupid way the command was shoved in our faces, and you have no reason to chill out, if you don't want to.

[Skydiver]

In regards to AoT, I think Coop went in thinking he was making a block buster like Terminator, but ended up with Pluto Nash instead

i wonder how he could think that when AoT was just eps 19 and 20 poofed up and turned into a feature.

when the show got canned, that's what they did, took the season finale and turned it into a 'feature'

and, i think, that's why we got crap like family ties and unending...they needed a couple of pieces of drek to fill the vacancy left by recycling the AOT script

[Rogue]

You'd think that Jack might have mentioned it - "Yeah, you guys are going to have to manage as a three person team for the moment because some guy crashed his F-302 and got an owie and therefore deserves the fourth spot that just about everyone working here is vying for. By the way, Carter, don't get too comfortable in command. The second this guy is fit for duty, he'll be leading SG-1. I'm sure the fact that he's got no experience offworld - he hasn't even seen the stargate yet, bless his heart! - isn't going to be a problem."

lol, i guess TPTB figured if they put a good looking guy from a popular sci-fi series in that role it didn't matter what backstory they gave him. What I find more appauling is the automatic acceptence of his command. Neither Tealc or Daniel are written to express an objection to having a newbie in charge. Sam is to written to be assigned to Area 51, then reassigned under his command and no one bats an eye. Sam and Mitchell are written to be friends. All of this is just a setup to have the audience accept their beloved chosen one.

[Skydiver]

The original SG-1 somehow complemented each other and, to me at least, it really did look like a team.

they did and i think that's because the actors were a team. I never got a sense of 'oh, you're more important so let's give you this story' or 'oh, man, we gotta promote your character so let's make sure that you never make a mistake cause, well we need peopel to like you' or any of the other senses i got from s9 adn 10

in coop's seasons, what i saw was 'you WILL love cam and vala and man, if i can just tell you enough times how great tehy are, i just KNOW you're gonna get over your issues and see the light.'

dude, bullying us doesn't work. you can't make fans think or feel something. we hae to make up our own minds.

coop oversold his bright and shiny show to the point that i'm thinking 'ok, so if the salesman is pushing this hard, what is he trying to hide' and it just makes me look at something more critically

[ReganX]

lol, i guess TPTB figured if they put a good looking guy from a popular sci-fi series in that role it didn't matter what backstory they gave him. What I find more appauling is the automatic acceptence of his command. Neither Tealc or Daniel are written to express an objection to having a newbie in charge. Sam is to written to be assigned to Area 51, then reassigned under his command and no one bats an eye. Sam and Mitchell are written to be friends. All of this is just a setup to have the audience accept their beloved chosen one.

The better to forcefeed Mitchell and the fact that he's in command.

See, Sam likes him. She doesn't mind that he's in command and not her... is there a vomiting smilie?

It's like Walter's awed description of Mitchell, Daniel saying that they all "owe" Mitchell, the CMOH, and so on - another way of driving home Mitchell's gweatness, and the fact that he "deserves" his place on SG-1. Unfortunately for TPTB - and fortunately for me because I would have been very frightened otherwise - a lot of fans saw through this bull and it wound up hurting Mitchell more than helping him.

[ReganX]

in coop's seasons, what i saw was 'you WILL love cam and vala and man, if i can just tell you enough times how great tehy are, i just KNOW you're gonna get over your issues and see the light.'

My mom used to think that would work with me and certain foods. It didn't.

dude, bullying us doesn't work. you can't make fans think or feel something. we hae to make up our own minds.

coop oversold his bright and shiny show to the point that i'm thinking 'ok, so if the salesman is pushing this hard, what is he trying to hide' and it just makes me look at something more critically

For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Coop was pushing his new, shiny show so hard that people were instinctively pushing it away, and with that distance, they were able to see all the flaws in the new characters and storylines.

[Mandysg1]

The better to forcefeed Mitchell and the fact that he's in command.

See, Sam likes him. She doesn't mind that he's in command and not her... is there a vomiting smilie?

It's like Walter's awed description of Mitchell, Daniel saying that they all "owe" Mitchell, the CMOH, and so on - another way of driving home Mitchell's gweatness, and the fact that he "deserves" his place on SG-1. Unfortunately for TPTB - and fortunately for me because I would have been very frightened otherwise - a lot of fans saw through this bull and it wound up hurting Mitchell more than helping him.

Yea, it did make it sound like Mitchell was up there defending SG1 ALL BY HIMSELF there were no other 'ships' around being blown out of the air...

[jckfan55]

Yeah you did leave something out, something that really used to bug me in S9 & 10 - Cambo running off by himself when he shouldn't.

I've read enough military history to know Cambo would have been relieved of command for some of the stunts he pulled.
O'Neill was sometimes insubordinate but didn't pull *stupid* stunts that put his team in danger.

Oh, and on the Antarctica battle and CMOH (bleh), imho Mitchell was simply doing his job like all the other pilots were. Purple Heart, yes. Maybe even another smaller medal, but CMOH, no.

If SG1 "owed" anyone it was *all* the 302 pilots and the crew of the prometheus. they were all fighting to save earth and to do that they had to protect SG1. Actually Hammond was the biggest hero in that battle to me.

[Mandysg1]

I've read enough military history to know Cambo would have been relieved of command for some of the stunts he pulled.
O'Neill was sometimes insubordinate but didn't pull *stupid* stunts that put his team in danger.

Which just goes to show what an idiot Landry was for putting him in charge. And if our big 3 were in character, they would have been putting Cam straight and not join his 'team' they would have formed their own team and left Cam begging to join.

[Skydiver]

there's insubordinant and there's stupid

jack was quite often insubordinant - but he rarely lost the big picture. he'd stick his neck out but it was just HIS neck and he'd do it with the greater good in mind. (such as taking on apophis' ships in serpents grasp/lair or going on the undercover mission in shades of grey)

i think the closest he ever came to 'stupid' was with the child in Learning Curve...but that was one child who he returned

cameron, they just made cameron an idiot at times. and i think it was quite often to make a poorly written story work. that and to pump up 'da hewo' without realizing that reckless rogues aren't heroes.