S10: Critique & Contemplation

[Skydiver]

the one thing is, we don't know.

we don't know how much control skiffy has.

for example, we knew that skiffy said 'vala MUST be in the s9 finale' but did they dictate how?

don't know and i doubt the show folks will ever be candid about precisely what is their responsibility and what is skiffy's, largely because you don't piddle in the sandbox you're playing in and as long as they can blame each other, no one has to take responsibility

[Vale_Sg1]

Is this why, when she as in the Ori galaxy in that other woman's body, she couldn't keep her mouth shut and ended up getting herself burned at the stake? Please don't say she didn't know what would happen, by that point they knew they were supposed to keep a low profile. And she mouthed off about the wrong thing. Because she couldn't resist the urge to open her mouth shut.

Seems the whole "I'm bored" persona is perfectly in character to me...

Perhaps the persona might be OOC for someone like how Vala *could* have been written. However... <<<SIGH>>> I wish she had been written better too.


suse

I'm referring to PU Vala, and what we know about her past, not to mention the long months she spent with Tomin in the Ori-dominated village.

She was clever, quick and effective in PU, and she must have had some pretty good stealth skills if she managed to become a quite known smuggler.
Surviving so long in the Ori galaxy without arising any suspicion in Tomin and the others required her to keep a low profile. And her mouth sealed, considering she also became part of a rebellious group. Regardless of how bored she was.

The writers used her as a plot device and cheap comic relief when she was on screen, even if it betrayed the very core of her character. Because, if Vala really was how we saw on-screen, she probably would have been killed ten seconds after Quetesh was removed from her body.

[RealmOfX]

"betrayed the very core of her character"?????

Let's not get into fanon here. Vala didn't have a core to her character - it was this gigantic flaw that many people objected to with the character as well as there being no logical reason for ever letting her onto a top security base let alone assigning her to the top off world team

[suse]

I'm referring to PU Vala, and what we know about her past, not to mention the long months she spent with Tomin in the Ori-dominated village.

She was clever, quick and effective in PU, and she must have had some pretty good stealth skills if she managed to become a quite known smuggler.
Surviving so long in the Ori galaxy without arising any suspicion in Tomin and the others required her to keep a low profile. And her mouth sealed, considering she also became part of a rebellious group. Regardless of how bored she was.

The writers used her as a plot device and cheap comic relief when she was on screen, even if it betrayed the very core of her character. Because, if Vala really was how we saw on-screen, she probably would have been killed ten seconds after Quetesh was removed from her body.

Fair point about making it through those months in the Ori galaxy. Though being burned at the stake would be a strong lesson to remember...even for Vala.

Bur she was back to her usual highjinks in Morpheus. Oh, yay. Not.

Frankly I like the fanon Vala better than the canon... But my opinion of her was formed in PU and early S9, not by fanon. It changed for the better (a bit) in S10 but still...er... <sigh> Well, I like her when she's paired with anyone but Daniel and Mitchell. Daniel because of what she is with him and Mitchell because 2 years into it my knee-jerk reaction is still irritation that they felt the need to bring the Farscape duo over and seeing them on the screen at the same time sets off thte barf factor. Also I don't like the way Jackson *or* Mitchell manhandle her. It's not funny. At all.

suse

[Skydiver]

vala's seeming inabilty to fit in is one thing that's rubbed me wrong. this woman is very intelligent. she's survived by her wits for years. she's a master con artist...who loves to stick out like a sore thumb and continually draw attention to herself?

that's a oxymoron. con artists don't survive by making themselves well known, it's just the opposite.

Instead of OTT sex kitten, what we should have seen was someone a bit quieter, with peeks of the sex kitten.

KINDA like what we got in family ties. where she publically hated jacek, but privately missed her father. her true feelings should have been kept underwraps instead of written on her sleeve like they liked to do (in those rare cases when she wore sleeves)

I think they got so caught up in having fun with her that they never really looked past the fun to see the character underneath

[jckfan55]

To some extent the problem lies in the fact that they wanted a "fun" character, but they gave Vala a serious background. The inconsistency will kill ya.

[Vale_Sg1]

"betrayed the very core of her character"?????

Let's not get into fanon here. Vala didn't have a core to her character - it was this gigantic flaw that many people objected to with the character as well as there being no logical reason for ever letting her onto a top security base let alone assigning her to the top off world team

I believe that Sky and Jckfan expressed my point more clearly and in less words.

There is an inner paradox in the character, and that's what irks me. Most of us fans wanted to see the serious, multi-layered side of her. There was room to explore so many things about her and link her to the other characters. Come on, writers, you had an ex-host and an ex-jaffa...and all you can do is re-write Smallville? *shakes head*

Regarding 'fanon' Vala (if we can call it fanon at all), there's a fandemonium book, "Roswell", which proved to be extremely satisfying in terms of characterization for both her and Mitchell. Same goes for classic SG1 (Jack's in the book as well). If only tptb had written them in the show as well as the authors wrote them in the book...*sighs*

[heliosphere]

I believe that Sky and Jckfan expressed my point more clearly and in less words.

There is an inner paradox in the character, and that's what irks me. Most of us fans wanted to see the serious, multi-layered side of her. There was room to explore so many things about her and link her to the other characters. Come on, writers, you had an ex-host and an ex-jaffa...and all you can do is re-write Smallville? *shakes head*

Regarding 'fanon' Vala (if we can call it fanon at all), there's a fandemonium book, "Roswell", which proved to be extremely satisfying in terms of characterization for both her and Mitchell. Same goes for classic SG1 (Jack's in the book as well). If only tptb had written them in the show as well as the authors wrote them in the book...*sighs*

I treat the books just like fanfic, and I have read some really good fan fic that explores the issues you speak of here. I haven't read it that book yet, but I wasn't too impressed with the two I did read only because one had this annoying Mary Sue ish character like the Trek books tend to have, in both of them Daniel and Jack weren't really on speaking terms, and in one of them, Jack stops in the middle of this battle to think about Sam's hair shining or soemething to that effect.

But the one you are talking about sounds interesting if it deals with some of the back story that we don't get on the show in an interesting way. Maybe I'll check it out with one of the gazillion Barnes and Noble cards I'll get for christmas.

My quibble with Vala has been brought up by a few people, and that's the uneven characterization we got. It's like they tried to do some serious stuff with her, and then they'd turn around and bring out the early 9 characterization. I'm not saying she shouldn't be fun-loving or silly, but there were other things to explore as well.

And I hated hated HATED the baby-grows-up-fast storyline. I mean, obviously, the Stargate show itself has been good to it's actors that become pregnant or have a baby. I liked how they wrote in MS's first child when the chick who played Sha're was pregnant. That worked, but it was short. They had to drop Lexa Doig's storyline between Lam and Landry when she got pregnant, not that I cared about that storyline, but they were nice to her about it. They gave off the time AT needed for her baby, though handled that a little screwy. I just wish they didn't feel the need to write in CB's pregnancy to become this huge dominant running storyline. Don't know what they are doing over on Atlantis, but they're writing that one in too.

There was a better way to bring in MB as Adria than the so very tired magically baby who grows up storyline that so many scifi/fantasy shows feel like they must have. It's like they feel that because the actress is pregnant now, they have to write the baby into the story, even if it skews the show.

Sorry if that was about actors and actress again. I wasn't trying to comment on them, only about how the Ori-baby-grows-up-fast storyline wouldn't have to exist if they didn't choose to write in the pregnancy. I feel like the end of nine and big parts of 10 were tailored to that rather than just creative blocking or something like other shows do when their actress are pregnant.

[Nikki]

This is an extract from the latest issue of the official Stargate Magazine (thanks to NearlyCircular for the extract)...

To JM: The other person incapacitated at the end of the season is Weir. Were you paving the road for Samantha Carter to come in?
Answer: To be perfectly honest, we considered having Carter as a crossover character. The previous year, season ten of Stargate SG-1 and season three of Stargate-Atlantis, we were thinking of making her the commander of the Apollo. We would have adventures where she was shuttling the crew back and forth. She would be making her appearance on Stargate-Atlantis and other times she would be with SG-1 because the Apollo would be in the Milky Way. For contractual and scheduling reasons, we weren’t able to do it.

This just proves that TPTB had such little material for Sam and the Ori storyline that they considered making her a recurring character. They quite obviously found it difficult to write for her in season 9 and knew that would continue on into season 10 and wanted her off SG1. I don't know what I would've preferred, them making up stuff for Sam to do, like fiddling around on her laptop but still being a main character on SG1 or her having the odd exciting adventure on SGA but as a recurring character in SG1. Just shows that the writers really didn't have the talent to write all their cast members into the 'brand new exciting' Bori storyline.

[AGateFan]

This is an extract from the latest issue of the official Stargate Magazine (thanks to NearlyCircular for the extract)...

This just proves that TPTB had such little material for Sam and the Ori storyline that they considered making her a recurring character. They quite obviously found it difficult to write for her in season 9 and knew that would continue on into season 10 and wanted her off SG1. I don't know what I would've preferred, them making up stuff for Sam to do, like fiddling around on her laptop but still being a main character on SG1 or her having the odd exciting adventure on SGA but as a recurring character in SG1. Just shows that the writers really didn't have the talent to write all their cast members into the 'brand new exciting' Bori storyline.

Thats crp. This is SG-1. One freaking actor left they had 3 other members of SG-1 around. The show should have focused on them and how they dealt with the change of a new base commander and a new recruit to their team. The show should have been about going through the stargate and exploring the galaxy now that the goa'uld and the reps were gone. There was no reason to move away from the sucessful formula that kept the show on for 8 years and got it renewed for a 9th.

I think its good she did not become recurring. Carter is as important to what SG-1 was as any of the others. Of course O'Neill was gone and Daniel character assassinated and Teal'c neutered but still.... SG-1 could have survived loseing one character, its the losing all 4 (in one way or another) that killed the show.

Also if they had made Carter recurring, they may have never considered her for full time work again once they decided to get rid of Weir. I still fear for the Carter character on Atlantis but so far so good....only Shep's character has been assassinated there and still not as completely and the destruction which befell Daneil.

[Nikki]

Thats crp. This is SG-1. One freaking actor left they had 3 other members of SG-1 around. The show should have focused on them and how they dealt with the change of a new base commander and a new recruit to their team. The show should have been about going through the stargate and exploring the galaxy now that the goa'uld and the reps were gone. There was no reason to move away from the sucessful formula that kept the show on for 8 years and got it renewed for a 9th.

Indeed. I don't know why they felt the need to completely change the premise of the show, SG1 could’ve been Sam, Daniel, Teal'c, New recruit and Ba'al could've been the new bad guy. He was brilliant in 'Abyss' and they could've brought that back.

I think its good she did not become recurring. Carter is as important to what SG-1 was as any of the others. Of course O'Neill was gone and Daniel character assassinated and Teal'c neutered but still.... SG-1 could have survived loseing one character, its the losing all 4 (in one way or another) that killed the show.

I agree, Carter is just as important, but RCC saw her as the fifth wheel during S9/10 and treated the character as more of Walter than Lt. Col. Sam Carter PHD, who helped save the planet a dozen times.

Also if they had made Carter recurring, they may have never considered her for full time work again once they decided to get rid of Weir. I still fear for the Carter character on Atlantis but so far so good....only Shep's character has been assassinated there and still not as completely and the destruction which befell Daneil.

Yep, I guess in the end it worked out best that Carter remained a main character because of Atlantis. The only thing that annoys me about Shep is the kirking otherwise I think he's a good enough character and I haven't noticed much of a change in him since the beginning. So I guess he could do with some growth as well...I mean they’ve worked wonders with Rodney. I love the guy now.

EDIT: Oh, and does anyone actually think that Jack would like Landry? TPTB obviously had Jack like Landry so that the viewers would accept him but IMO that's rubbish. From what we know of Jack I can imagnine Jack hating the guy.

[Rogue]

This is an extract from the latest issue of the official Stargate Magazine (thanks to NearlyCircular for the extract)...

This just proves that TPTB had such little material for Sam and the Ori storyline that they considered making her a recurring character. They quite obviously found it difficult to write for her in season 9 and knew that would continue on into season 10 and wanted her off SG1. I don't know what I would've preferred, them making up stuff for Sam to do, like fiddling around on her laptop but still being a main character on SG1 or her having the odd exciting adventure on SGA but as a recurring character in SG1. Just shows that the writers really didn't have the talent to write all their cast members into the 'brand new exciting' Bori storyline.

I remember when it was first leaked that Sam would do half SG-1 and half SGA. I don't think TPTB were expecting such a backlash from the fans. I think its a shame that just because Jack leaves, they lose interest in the Sam character.

[Nikki]

I remember when it was first leaked that Sam would do half SG-1 and half SGA. I don't think TPTB were expecting such a backlash from the fans. I think its a shame that just because Jack leaves, they lose interest in the Sam character.

I don't think it was just Jack leaving as RCC dug himself into a huge hole when he made the whole Ori storyline revolve around Daniel and Vala. After having written it realisation must've set in and he must've been like "crap, what do I do with everyone else! I know, Mitchell has material because he's the new guy so we'll just do some 'introductory-get to know the new character' stuff with him - no one will really cares. We'll regress Teal'c like 7 years and have him indeed a lot, I'm sure no one will notice and we'll just give Sam a laptop and two Sam-centric eps - that should make those fans happy as well! All in a days work!"

[Skydiver]

I remember when it was first leaked that Sam would do half SG-1 and half SGA. I don't think TPTB were expecting such a backlash from the fans. I think its a shame that just because Jack leaves, they lose interest in the Sam character.

that's because, IMHO, if a woman aint half of a pairing, coop don't know what to do with her.

most of vala's scenes were with her on daniel's arm, and since jack wasn't there to ship sam with, i don't think he knew what to do with her, so he just ignored her as much as possible

[Silverwings]

EDIT: Oh, and does anyone actually think that Jack would like Landry? TPTB obviously had Jack like Landry so that the viewers would accept him but IMO that's rubbish. From what we know of Jack I can imagnine Jack hating the guy.

I'm not so sure of that. Landry's no Hammond, but he does have a sense of humor and dedication to his people. I don't see Jack hating the guy. I don't see grounds for a good friendship, true, but Landry is capable enough for the SGC big chair. (Which mostly means letting SG-1 do their thing, sadly enough.) I certainly don't think Jack has a reason to hate him, neither personally nor professionally.

At least, no more than Jack hates any form of authority.