S10: Critique & Contemplation

[Skydiver]

tomin just got a front row seat to finding out that his 'gods' are nothing but power hungy bigots that are murdering for power and lust. he found out that the priors are taking his holy book and twistinig it to justify horrible acts

his whole life and belief system has been torn upside down

[Jackie]

they had a chance to make him a sympathetic character, someone who we could watch as a very good person that got so involved in a religious furvor that he didn't realize how bad it was until he discovered for himself. If they would have kept that, and not made him Mr. Wifebeater, I really could have liked him. Especially since it'll probably be forgotten in Ark of Truth the way all the implied rapes have been. I could have dealt with it if he had just hollered at her or if they got into a physical battle and both were fighting like a bad/guy good/guy sort of fight where gender is neutral.

Nope. It was Vala saying something he didn't like, and him backhanding her like some drunken abusing husband. I really liked his character up until that point, even with his alliances and skewed beliefs. But I cannot tolerate Mr. Wifebeater, especially if he comes back and she forgives him and he's all nice to her until the next time she says something he doesn't like. It's a textbook abuse case but undertaken by writers who treat it as like forgettable scene.

ETA: I read that over and it is a little strong of an opinion, so sorry about that. I do volunteer work near campus with a battered women's and children's shelter, so seeing it thrown in casually on TV shows or movies without any repercussions or with other characters thinking 'she deserved it' really bites my butt.

Yeah, the "she deserved" it defense is way out there. Kind of like the "she shouldn't have dressed like that" defense for rapist. An abusive husband, wife beater and rapist are all predictors and should be treated as such.

You never hear someone say--the child deserved to have been killed" as a defense. Why should wife beater and rapist get that lame excuse?


If the writer's were thoughtful enough to make Tomin hit Vala to turn off any Vla/Tomin ships then they should have been thoughtful enough to be dealing with abuse.

Of course--the writers don't deal with any abuse in the show. Not POW abuse, not mental abuse, not torture, not false gods, not slavery. Nothing--they mention it like it was a joke and on to the next great one liner.

[Mandysg1]

Yea, Tomin hitting Vala was definitely physical abuse. I have to ask what you think about Danile and Vala in Uneding, because I consider how Daniel treated Vala as psychological abuse, and many times psychological abuse is a precursor to physical abuse.

[Jackie]

Yea, Tomin hitting Vala was definitely physical abuse. I have to ask what you think about Danile and Vala in Uneding, because I consider how Daniel treated Vala as psychological abuse, and many times psychological abuse is a precursor to physical abuse.

I think Vala and Daniel had some mutual abuse going there.

Vala constantly hitting on Daniel is sexual harassment.

Daniel telling her she's not good enough for him was pysch abuse.

Then jumping into bed together...*shivers*

They represent the ultimate dysfunctional relationship.

The only thing missing was Vala trying to kill Daniel and Daniel trying to tie Vala up. Both have major issues--both are abusive--then after tptb decide to put them in bed together--they suddenly turn into the boring old couple wtf?.

If they were going for the desi/lucy tension--I think they missed it.

If they were going for--resolved sexual tension--they didn't know what sexual tension was to begin with. It wasn't Vala/Daniel bicker fest.

Even CB said Vala and Daniel made a bad couple because all they would do was fight.

IMO--they are both exhibiting signs of harassment and abuse.

[AGateFan]

I do not not like Tomin I don't like the Jekyll Hyde personality he has. After LitS his fate is sealed in My AU. I know you may say it is because I am a D&V shipper no I am in the minority there with my fellow shippers many of them like him and have AU where V&T are together. What permanently put me against him was when he hit Vala why that set me off was because he was in no danger the only reason he hit her was because he didn't like what she said not because he was defending himself like Daniel in PU.

Yet theres no problem with Vala beating Daniel when she was in no fear of her life?

So men abuse women but women cant abuse men?

Sorry, I have strong disagreement with that. If Tomlin is bad for what he did, Vala is far far FAR worse.

[captain jake]

Yet theres no problem with Vala beating Daniel when she was in no fear of her life?

So men abuse women but women cant abuse men?

Sorry, I have strong disagreement with that. If Tomlin is bad for what he did, Vala is far far FAR worse.

Number 1: You fraised that wrong what you meant to say was "So men can't abuse women but women can abuse men?"

And as for Vala being worse than Tomin for hitting Daniel a couple of times. Well I have to say that I disagree with that completely, Vala hitting Daniel was funny. I cant say the same for the situation between Tomin and Vala.

[Mandysg1]

And as for Vala being worse than Tomin for hitting Daniel a couple of times. Well I have to say that I disagree with that completely, Vala hitting Daniel was funny. I cant say the same for the situation between Tomin and Vala.

It may seem funny to some, but the point is, isn't it abuse, and why is it okay for Vala to abuse Daniel?

[captain jake]

It may seem funny to some, but the point is, isn't it abuse, and why is it okay for Vala to abuse Daniel?

Daniel hit Vala just as much as Vala hit him... Vala didn't know the Tauri at that point in time and I'm sure if she did, she wouldn't have ever taken over the ship. Thus she never would have hit Daniel, for all she knew the people aboard that ship could have been even more evil than Baal himself.

[Skydiver]

It may seem funny to some, but the point is, isn't it abuse, and why is it okay for Vala to abuse Daniel?

the 'problem' with that question....a phrase a couple of guys i worked with said:

'it's only sexual harrassment if she's ugly'

Now, they were lauging and joking, but seriously, that's a common philosophy. that it's ok for a 'hot' woman to hit on a man, but if a 'dog' does it, then it's bad

well, vala is a good looking woman, therefore, it must have been ok for her to harrass daniel.

You know, my issue? not that she did it. But that NO ONE called her on it. No one said 'umm, this is wrong'. That's the elephant in the room. Not that vala commonly misbehaved, but that no one would call a rose a rose and tell her to stop

[Mandysg1]

Daniel hit Teyla just as much as Teyla hit him... Teyla didn't know the Tauri at that point in time and I'm sure if she did, she wouldn't have ever taken over the ship. Thus she never would have hit Daniel, for all she knew the people aboard that ship could have been even more evil than Baal himself.

I think you mean Vala and that was PU in season 9, different circumstances, for that episode it was more of enemies fighting. In s9 and 10they know each other, work together and some may say are in a relationship. The question would be, why would it be okay for Vala to hit Daniel in this circumstance. Which is what I think AGateFan was getting at, why is it okay for women to abuse men?

[captain jake]

I think you mean Vala and that was PU in season 9, different circumstances, for that episode it was more of enemies fighting. In s9 and 10they know each other, work together and some may say are in a relationship. The question would be, why would it be okay for Vala to hit Daniel in this circumstance. Which is what I think AGateFan was getting at, why is it okay for women to abuse men?

See thats the problem, who said it was abuse in the first place?

[Jackie]

Rarely do women physically abuse men--however, it does happen. Women and men have a different thought process and while an abusive man would be more prone to hitting; an abusive women would be more prone to manipulation and setting the "stage" to her advantage.

Women in general are "thought" to be less prone to violence and men in general are still stereotyped to be the more aggressive one--so, tptb were able to have Vala beat up on a big strong man and have it come across as a joke.

Then they shove that stereotype in front of your face and have Teyla beat up Sheppard in a training session--same deal--it's supposed to be funny seeing "little Teyla" beat up Air Force Colonel John Sheppard.

For Sheppard or Daniel to over come the female it would be--not funny and borderline abuse.

So, yes--Vala beating up Daniel is a clich'e joke--the series is loaded with them.

There have been a few reported cases of wives beating up their husbands and of those few cases the cops actually laughed at the husband and made "gay" jokes at him. In one case--the wife later killed him. It does happen and society needs to realize that it's not "okay" for any type of abuse to be reported and be laughed at.

Usually when women are the abuser--the man is actually an enabler--so are female victims. The victim doesn't want to suffer the abuse and thinks if they do what the abuser wants them too--the abuse will stop. Abuse still equals control--the motive for abuse is to control the other person. To manipulate the person into doing certain things.

With battered women--the abuse is obvious. The guy will leave evidence on her face and body.

With abused men--it's not obvious. When it's physical the man will not tell anyone in fear of being called a pansy and laughed at. When the abuse is mental or financial--again, the man will not tell anyone out of fear of what his peers will think.

fear plays a huge role in abuse of any kind.

[Mandysg1]

Yet theres no problem with Vala beating Daniel when she was in no fear of her life?

So men abuse women but women cant abuse men?

Sorry, I have strong disagreement with that. If Tomlin is bad for what he did, Vala is far far FAR worse.

Looking back at AGateFan's original post...

Yet theres no problem with Vala beating Daniel when she was in no fear of her life?

Forgive me if I can't remember everything from the episode, (I only watched it once, which was more than enough for me) from the above quote, it could be argued as being abuse, since there was no reason for her to be beating up Daniel. And the question still remains why is it okay

[suse]

Number 1: You fraised that wrong what you meant to say was "So men can't abuse women but women can abuse men?"

And as for Vala being worse than Tomin for hitting Daniel a couple of times. Well I have to say that I disagree with that completely, Vala hitting Daniel was funny. I cant say the same for the situation between Tomin and Vala.

Would you happen to have meant "phrased" at the bolded part?


See, I don't find sexual harassment funny. We had Vala doing that for all of S9 and some of S10. TPTB never needed to stoop to that before S9. Why then? See my "I miss Gekko" sig.

And Vala hitting Daniel was not funny. I'd not go so far as to call it "abuse" as there was no relationship, but it sure was assault and battery. In addition to attempted murder of the rest of the crew and grand theft... ship. She needed done to her what the LITS ep did to their Vala. And throw away the key.

So you are saying that a woman hitting a man is funny. But a man hitting a woman is not. Have you ever talked to a man who's been abused? It's under reported, but it happens. It's double standards like the second bolded bit that perpetuate stereotypical myths.

suse

[poundpuppy29]

Why I find the 2 totally different situations Vala was a held captive on the Ori Ship she was completely and totally under his control there were Ori soldiers on the ship she was alone. The only reason he hit her was because he didn't like what she said.

In PU it was just her and Daniel on the ship granted she made it that way by laying the trap ringing everyone else away to the other ship but it was a fight between the 2 of them on relative equal terms 1 on 1. They were fighting over the ship the control of it.

I really am not happy with Tomin being in alot of pics released so far I really don't like him. For me this feelings started in Crusade when he left her on the stone for 3 days and then at the end when the Jekyll and Hyde personality first surfaced Vala was trapped and she had to lie to save herself from his rage. He didn't anger me in Flesh and Blood but LitS he did oh and just because he said he said he was sorry for striking her doesn't absolve him.