S10: Critique & Contemplation

[Mandysg1]

OMG... Vala as Tattoo.

Vala--dressed in a white tank top and shorts and wearing a straw hat kneeling by Daniel who is dressed a white suit and pointing to the gate.

"Dr. Jackson--da gate, da gate. Who is coming to have their fantasy fulfilled this week?

RCC

[astrogeologist]

i too missed different pairings. I loved it when vala got to talk to the others. I liked the side of her we saw with teal'c or sam and i regret that we only got snippits of it.

vala and daniel....not much depth there. she hits on him, he rejects her, she makes a joke. wash, rinse, repeat

but with teal'c, her hitting on him accomplished nothing, he didn't get flustered, if anything it merely amused him so she had to try something else. i'd have loved to have seen her lighten sam up a bit and have the two of them conspire together

with sam adn daniel it was like they were two poles of a magnet, perpetualy opposite each other.

cam being everyone's best buddy adn indulged like a favorite little brother is - to me - a symptom of 'oh, man, we know he won't be well received so let's make sure all the characters love him, then the viewers will too'

yeah, sorry, don't work that way

especially when cam is doing stupid things to make the plot work and these characters aren't telling him that he's been stupid. If he's got a zit on his nose, call a zit a zit, don't just ignore it.

both cameron and vala had tremendous potential. but they were written in the corner to faciliate the super duper adventures of Jackson the magnificent and never got out

Great post.

I read nearly every pairing for both Sam and Daniel, and there have been some spectacular femmeslash and gen stories between Sam and Vala. Cool interaction and really getting into their histories. Same with Daniel and Vala. You spend time reading these, and you wonder why couldn't the writers go anywhere near that sort of thing? Not femmeslash, obviously, but rather than two girls a shoppin that we had, how both a real moment between two women with a cruddy past involving host issues?

And I still don't understand why they wrote Daniel so friggin grouchy. It's like he had a permanent wedgie, and I don't like feeling that way about my second favorite character. And I don't blame the actor for it either. I saw the one behind the scenes vid of Bad Guys where the director was telling MS to shout and holler at the two women that were squealing. Why did they feel the need to direct him in a way as to make him sound like his undies were chafing?

Wonderful wording and imagery

teal'c became 'indeeding muscles', cameron was 'goofy hewo' adn daniel became 'Jackson the magnificent'

they all suffered under coop's leadership. coop was more interested in creating his new vision of a show but was stuck using existing characters, so, instead of taking care of what he'd been given, he instead used the existing characters and crammed them into his 'vision'

they all suffered. And the fact that they did suffer so much definitely will put me off from ever checking out another of his projects ever again. All he seems to want to do is make drek to cater to the adolescent male, and since i'm not one, i'll just leave him be.

With Seasons 9 & 10, I found myself thinking that Stargate SG-1 was aiming for a very young, immature audience - because the show belonged with early morning Saturday cartoons - like I used to watch when I was 6-10. But then there'd be a callous killing or bloody scene or such... and that sort of stuff isn't suitable for 6-10 year olds (not in my book)... so their plotlines seemed aimed for the very young and not-very-well-read-or-experienced... but the violence-level or serious-psuedo-religion-levels seemed to be trying for something above a 10-year old. Big mismatch to me. And none of it was well done. Just the opposite.

[astrogeologist]

How bad is Season 10?

An episode was on the weekend before last... I caught a few minutes while flipping channels...and it all seemed... pointless. The team was on some sort of cliched quest (and it's actually written as cliche and *every* one of the actors seems to acknowledge and underscore the boringness of it)... only a few actors seemed to be acting in the scene with the other actors - most of them seemed to be standing there until it was time to say their lines and they weren't reacting to the scene or each other - ugh! Boring... and that was after only a few minutes.

Last weekend? I caught maybe 10 seconds of Adria with her hand over the DHD and she was controlling it telepathically... didn't see any of SG-1 in the shot... kept flipping channels and didn't see anymore of that dreck.

This weekend? Missed it entirely and it's a relief!

What sad, sad commentary on a show that I used to like.

[heliosphere]

That was all but inevitable. Under the circumstances, archaeology and cultural studies was going to take a back seat to the military and technological/scientific sides of the missions, and just about everybody in the galaxy speaks English, so with Daniel's background, there wasn't going to be playing a huge role on missions.

The more people who found out about the stargate's existence, the more political/NID storylines there were going to be.

.

Yeah, but it didn't need to happen. The writers are writing the story. If they want to write him in, they could have. And I know it is for TV ease, but it's a little crazy to say the entire universe speaks english. There's different languages in in every country on Earth! It could have been alluded to that he had studied the language or something to that effect to include him, plus, they still could have kept the anthropology aspects even with the new direction of the show.

They did the same thing to Sam in season 8 and 10. Suddenly the writers were like, sorry, AT, we don't know what to do with your character. Here's a laptop. Neither Daniel nor Sam needed to be written out in their respective seasons that they were sidelined. I can't post on this thread and say that it's so horrid that Sam was ignored in later seasons without feeling the same way about what they did to Daniel. It's exactly the same, and it shows that the writers didn't learn from their mistakes. Same thing- tell the actor they don't know to do with a well-loved character because of the new direction of the show. And instead of working hard to include them into the team episodes, they continue on with their new 'vision' and eventually the character gets two scenes in a 'team' episode.

It was a good thing for Sam fans back in four and five because she got the bulk of the storylines when daniel got shoved aside. It was a good thing for Daniel fans that didn't mind some of his personality changes when Sam got shoved aside. It was a very very crappy thing for we fans of both Sam and Daniel, or fans of Daniel who prefered him when he was a tad less angry all the time.

It's all in the writing. It's not like the characters write themselves or the writers are copying off of life. I don't believe the, "we just can't find a place for your character these days," line-- you're writers for heaven's sake! Create one! Thousands of fanfic writers can do it, why can't you? What they should come out and admit is that they don't WANT to create a place for the character because of the shiny new directions of the show they want to focus on instead, rather than saying they can't do it.

[Skydiver]

OMG... Vala as Tattoo.

Vala--dressed in a white tank top and shorts and wearing a straw hat kneeling by Daniel who is dressed a white suit and pointing to the gate.

"Dr. Jackson--da gate, da gate. Who is coming to have their fantasy fulfilled this week?

LOLO

that sounds like the opening line for some pr0n fic

[Frostfox]

Yeah, but it didn't need to happen. The writers are writing the story. If they want to write him in, they could have. And I know it is for TV ease, but it's a little crazy to say the entire universe speaks english. There's different languages in in every country on Earth! It could have been alluded to that he had studied the language or something to that effect to include him, plus, they still could have kept the anthropology aspects even with the new direction of the show.

They did the same thing to Sam in season 8 and 10. Suddenly the writers were like, sorry, AT, we don't know what to do with your character. Here's a laptop. Neither Daniel nor Sam needed to be written out in their respective seasons that they were sidelined. I can't post on this thread and say that it's so horrid that Sam was ignored in later seasons without feeling the same way about what they did to Daniel. It's exactly the same, and it shows that the writers didn't learn from their mistakes. Same thing- tell the actor they don't know to do with a well-loved character because of the new direction of the show. And instead of working hard to include them into the team episodes, they continue on with their new 'vision' and eventually the character gets two scenes in a 'team' episode.

It was a good thing for Sam fans back in four and five because she got the bulk of the storylines when daniel got shoved aside. It was a good thing for Daniel fans that didn't mind some of his personality changes when Sam got shoved aside. It was a very very crappy thing for we fans of both Sam and Daniel, or fans of Daniel who prefered him when he was a tad less angry all the time.

It's all in the writing. It's not like the characters write themselves or the writers are copying off of life. I don't believe the, "we just can't find a place for your character these days," line-- you're writers for heaven's sake! Create one! Thousands of fanfic writers can do it, why can't you? What they should come out and admit is that they don't WANT to create a place for the character because of the shiny new directions of the show they want to focus on instead, rather than saying they can't do it.

Gives heliosphere a standing ovation.

'We don't know what to do with a character', whether said explicitly or implied by lack of good story lines, is no excuse. These are professional writers, if they can't write good stories for all the characters on the show, then the producers should employ writers who can.

FF

[ReganX]

Yeah, but it didn't need to happen. The writers are writing the story. If they want to write him in, they could have. And I know it is for TV ease, but it's a little crazy to say the entire universe speaks english. There's different languages in in every country on Earth! It could have been alluded to that he had studied the language or something to that effect to include him, plus, they still could have kept the anthropology aspects even with the new direction of the show.

Practically speaking, I don't think that either was an option.

Having everyone in the galaxy speaking English wasn't just convenient, I would say that it was pretty much essential. Imagine a situation where, on all or almost all missions, all communication had to be relayed through Daniel. Not only would it be a very unsatisfying role for him to play, it would completely hobble the story - remember when they first went to Abydos and Daniel had to adapt to the changes thousands of years had made to the language? It would be that, every time. Boring for the audience, and it would eat into the screentime.

Once they were facing a threat like the System Lords, later the Replicators, anthropology was never going to be kept as a leading aspect of SG-1's missions. Their standing orders were to seek new allies and procure technologies to aid in the defense against the Goa'uld. Anthropology, like archaeology, was a luxury they couldn't afford to have their flagship team concentrating on, and despite a few attempts to fit Daniel into the role of team diplomat (despite the fact that this was not one of his specialities) it was Sam, Jack and Teal'c who forged connections with the major allies - the Tok'ra, Asgard and Jaffa respectively. The technological side of things was, obviously, Sam's domain.

Remember, Daniel was allowed to join SG-1 for one reason - to find Sha're. That was the reason Hammond didn't go with his original plan and relegate him to a desk job. Once Sha're died, Daniel's primary reason for being on the team died with her, and the storyline centering around Shifu was extremely short-lived.

They did the same thing to Sam in season 8 and 10. Suddenly the writers were like, sorry, AT, we don't know what to do with your character.

In that case, the situation was rather different, as aspects of Sam's character - her command of the team and her past as an ex-host - were deliberately usurped for new characters. With Sam's experience as a military officer and scientific genius, there was plenty of ground to work with. The writers simply chose not to. With Daniel, it was inevitable that finding ways to include him in the mission storylines was going to be problematic at best because the background he was given was in specialities that were never going to be a priority given their situation.

It's all in the writing. It's not like the characters write themselves or the writers are copying off of life. I don't believe the, "we just can't find a place for your character these days," line-- you're writers for heaven's sake! Create one! Thousands of fanfic writers can do it, why can't you? What they should come out and admit is that they don't WANT to create a place for the character because of the shiny new directions of the show they want to focus on instead, rather than saying they can't do it.

Fanfic writers have an easier job - for starters, they have no restrictions as far as cast, budget or length go. If a fanfic writer wants to write a Daniel story where he and SG-1 are on a lovely, peaceful planet filled to the brim with archaeological wonders for him to explore, they are free to do so. The show's writers have the problem of "why would Hammond send the flagship team to do this? Their time could be put to far better use and they need to find ways to defend against the Goa'uld."

[Nikki]

^Top notch post ReganX. Couldn't agree with you more. Couldn't green you either.

[Nikki]

I didn't see anything wrong with the way Daniel was written in seasons 4 and 5. He was just as involved as every other member of SG1 at the time and was written very well. I don't know why MS left but whatever his reasoning, there's no way he could've blamed the show or the writers for not enough screentime or bad writing. In fact he should've been complaining about the character assassination Daniel suffered during seasons 9/10, but of course he didn't because he was the hero.

Types of eps

Season 4:

Small Victories - Team
The Other Side - Team
Upgrades - Team
Crossroads - Teal'c
Divide and Conquer - Sam/Jack
Window of Opportunity - Jack/Teal'c
Watergate - Team
The First Ones - Daniel
Scorched Earth - Team/Daniel
Beneath the Surface - Team
Point of No Return - Team
Tangent - Jack/Teal'c
The Curse - Daniel
Serpent's Venom - Team
Chain Reaction - Team
2010 - Team
Absolute Power - Daniel
The Light - Team
Prodigy - Team/Sam
Entity - Sam
Double Jeopardy - Team
Exodus - Team

Team eps - 12 full eps 2 half eps
Daniel - 3 full eps 1 half ep
Teal'c - 1 full ep 2 half eps
Sam - 1 full ep 2 half eps
Jack - 3 half eps

Season 5:

Enemies - Team
Threshold – Teal’c
Ascension - Sam
The Fifth Man - Jack
Red Sky - Team
Rite of Passage - Team
Beast of Burden - Daniel
The Tomb - Team
Between Two Fires - Team
2001 - Team
Desperate Measures – Sam/Jack
Wormhole X-treme - Team
Proving Ground - Team
48 Hours – Team
Summit - Daniel
Last Stand - Daniel
Fail Safe - Team
The Warrior – Teal’c
Menace 26 – Team/Daniel
The Sentinel - Team
Meridian - Daniel
Revelations - Team

Team eps - 12 full eps 1 half ep
Daniel - 4 full eps 1 half ep
Teal'c - 2 full ep
Sam - 1 full ep 1 half ep
Jack - 1 full ep 1 half ep

[Skydiver]

not to diss what you did nikki, but the issue with seeing how involved an actor/character is is purely subjetive. What you call a 'team' episode, others will say 'dude, that was all about sam what are you talking about!!!!'

it's all subjective and people will see what they want to see to justify thier positino at the time

[ReganX]

not to diss what you did nikki, but the issue with seeing how involved an actor/character is is purely subjetive. What you call a 'team' episode, others will say 'dude, that was all about sam what are you talking about!!!!'

it's all subjective and people will see what they want to see to justify thier positino at the time

Yep, especially when you consider the "one minute of screentime for Character A is at least two minutes too much" school of thought.

[heliosphere]

reganx and Nikki, we'll have to agree to disagree here, because I definately saw a problem with how Daniel was shoved to the side in a lot of season 4 and 5 episodes. he'd get his own isolated episodes, and then there'd be a bunch of what are supposed to be team episodes, but it would be Daniel off in the B storyline with Paul Davis or something. Maybe "team" means something different to us. I see team as all four working together on a problem in the same place sort of. I don't really count it as team if some characters are over here and some on another planet doing something else.

But if you aren't particularly fond of his character, I could see that you wouldn't really notice if he's not saying any lines or just standing off to the side or something. There were times he was in those episodes just standing there like Teal'c, off to the side not saying anything. That's sidelining and I def. noticed it more because I mainly watch the show for Sam and Daniel.

It still goes down to the writing. Even if the storyline went a different direction than the first three years (and they really couldn't keep doing the explore a planet a week thing- it was getting too Original Trek like after a while), they could have still written him as making cultural observations and things like that. And in 9 and 10, they could have fully integrated Sam back into things after her maternity leave. But they chose not to because she didn't fit in with their current agenda. It was so obvious they didn't know what to do with either character during either time, that it was pathetic.

Then I think they had the balance perfect for both Daniel and Sam in season 7 and 8, though Jack was missed (not much they could do about that). But they got to be around each other! They got to be in significant scenes with both Jack and Teal'c! When something happened, they got to do things together in most cases rather than one of them getting sent off to do something separate.

I finally think that they've got the balance down pat, and then WHAM. The start doing the same jerking around to Sam that they did to Daniel. Suddenly, she's off in some other room with a laptop while all the cool stuff is happening somewhere else. She's floating around in space while all the action scenes are somewhere else. Near the end of 10, she got a few episodes to herself, but other than that, it felt like she was slotted in this role of "Cam and Vala's friend." What's with that?

Because they couldn't write about her romantically like they often did in 7 and 8, they couldn't think of anything to do? I swear, it was like she spent two seasons in her lab working on that ancient phase device the whole time and only came out to plug in her laptop on a ship. I wanted so much to see her become the leader and become the mentor and teacher for the newer military guy this time around.but apparently, she had boobs, so she couldn't lead. I liked the idea of the Priors and Ori and the Arthur mythology (they handled it like crap, but that's a different post. The idea was cool IMO). I wanted to see Sam go off on some of these Ori solder guys, show some of the strategy she no doubt learned from Jack and in the academy. But it never materialized. She just sat there.

[ReganX]

reganx and Nikki, we'll have to agree to disagree here, because I definately saw a problem with how Daniel was shoved to the side in a lot of season 4 and 5 episodes. he'd get his own isolated episodes, and then there'd be a bunch of what are supposed to be team episodes, but it would be Daniel off in the B storyline with Paul Davis or something. Maybe "team" means something different to us. I see team as all four working together on a problem in the same place sort of. I don't really count it as team if some characters are over here and some on another planet doing something else.

The underlined would suggest that the writers were making an effort to give Daniel storylines of his own. As I mentioned before, his skillsets meant that he wasn't going to be playing a major role on missions, because more often than not, they weren't going to be dealing with his areas of interest.

[heliosphere]

not to diss what you did nikki, but the issue with seeing how involved an actor/character is is purely subjetive. What you call a 'team' episode, others will say 'dude, that was all about sam what are you talking about!!!!'

it's all subjective and people will see what they want to see to justify thier positino at the time

Yeah, this a totally subjective thing and it depends on what you define as team. Some will say if all four are on the screen, it's team. Some will say if all of them have an active part, it's team. For me, team is all of them in one area trying to solve a problem and nobody sort of regulated to a B line or just standing there with no actual lines. (Which only works for Teal'c, I think.)

I started really hating the words, "It's a team episode!" in the second half of 9 and 10 when other countries would get the episodes first and people summarize and say, WHAT A GREAT TEAM EPISODE! And then I'd watch it and it'd be like all about Vala and some OC. Or yeah, Sam would be there, but she'd be like a lamp for all she'd get to say.

Bounty, for example, is considered a team episode by some because everyone has a part in it, but to me, everyone was in different places doing different things! How is that team? And there are a few that were all about Daniel, which should have made me happy, but I was wondering where the heck Sam was the whole time. And then she'd get two lines or something just to justify her existence. It was just the opposite of how I felt during 4 and 5. Too much of one of my favs, and not enough of the other. And no scenes with each other.

[heliosphere]

The underlined would suggest that the writers were making an effort to give Daniel storylines of his own. As I mentioned before, his skillsets meant that he wasn't going to be playing a major role on missions, because more often than not, they weren't going to be dealing with his areas of interest.

But that's exactly what I see as the problem. It's the same crud they tried to pull with AT in 9 and 10. They went back into the cultural area and did Sam's science stuff off-screen other than a few times. Then they gave the position that should have been hers to Cam, further restricting her. To appease her character, they did the same thing you are mentioning that the did for Daniel. Tried to make an effort of giving her a part of her own. A "b" or "c" storyline where she's doing something with her laptop. (and god, I wanted to smash that laptop after a while. It was all they let her do half the time.)