S10: Critique & Contemplation

[Jackie]

i think coop works great when he has someone checking his work. but when he's his own editor, there's no one to say 'umm, dude, that line sucks'

I don't think he can step out of his self-focus to take a good hard look at his own work

he might not be able to self edit...he probably can't distance himself from his work enough to look at it differently.

I can't self edit without letting things set so I forget what I wrote and then go back and read it.

Coop may just not have that ability because he gets too attached to his own work. If that's the case then he needs to hire someone to edit for him or have a trusted friend to point the errors out. If he thinks he can self edit with no problems than he's probably in denial. Very few writers can self edit properly.

[Rogue]

He has an issue with the characters he didn't create. That includes Jack, Teal'c and Sam. It used to include Daniel too, but he replaced him with Action Jackson - his own creation...
Off-topic: What's really bugging me is that RCC seems to be able to create something watchable when he applies himself - "Doppelganger" was worth watching once even though there are plenty of things one can have issues with it. So either he's lazy or he's head over heels with his own creation...

I like RCC earlier work, its when he took over as showrunner I have issues.

[Skydiver]

yeah and Sateda shows that he can be a good writer.

it's just that whole 'big picture' thing that he seems to have issues with

[AGateFan]

he might not be able to self edit...he probably can't distance himself from his work enough to look at it differently.

I can't self edit without letting things set so I forget what I wrote and then go back and read it.

Coop may just not have that ability because he gets too attached to his own work. If that's the case then he needs to hire someone to edit for him or have a trusted friend to point the errors out. If he thinks he can self edit with no problems than he's probably in denial. Very few writers can self edit properly.

The trusted friend thing doesn’t work if you only acknowledge "friends" who agree with you. Considering how he has acknowledged only fans that like his work I would see that as a possibility. That being said I don’t really know him only that when there was oversight his version of the show (S7-S8) was better but not still up to par with the early seasons.

He does have a good ep or two under his belt though, but I am betting many of those made trips to the now defunct "how come room". Also, didnt they used to have something of a show bible that he so proudly threw out for S9-S10?

[jckfan55]

Even though he was mostly wallpaper, I really didn't think less of Teal'c in S9 or 10. I got the impression that Mitchell never earned Teal'c loyalty or respect.

I agree. I think Teal'c tolerated Mitchell. They didn't dumb Teal'c down except in the sense of making him non-verbal.

[jckfan55]

Then again, I guess the whole point of the Bori arc was to re-use the same medieval set over and over again, and have a relatively young actress walk around in a little clothing as possible.

Yeah, that set got a little old, didn't it. I was longing for some forests of old. Though I hear it's harder to find those spots for filming these days.

[astrogeologist]

To bad we can't cull the best of Anti-S9 and Anti-S10 and send them to tptb. With the permission of the writers of course I don't mean the whining. I mean the well-reasoned thoughts on where and why SG-1 went wrong. Some of the posts are spectacular.

suse

Well you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink

You can...
lead 'em to water...
...you can hold their head under...
...but you can't make 'em drink...
...you can drown 'em... but you can't make 'em drink...

(I couldn't resist... it's a refrain that some of my colleagues and I chant occassionally at work).

Nah. The series is over. Nothing left to ignore. It's just the point...

suse

The point is important

[Rogue]

Yeah, that set got a little old, didn't it. I was longing for some forests of old. Though I hear it's harder to find those spots for filming these days.

I longed for them to find a society that had running water and indoor plumbing.

[suse]

i think coop works great when he has someone checking his work. but when he's his own editor, there's no one to say 'umm, dude, that line sucks'

I don't think he can step out of his self-focus to take a good hard look at his own work

Guess it would be considered bad form to rewrite an former show runner's episode contribution...

ETA: I recently watched a classic episode. It was even a Coop ep. I'd forgotten how much pleasure I got out of Stargate.

suse

[Coco Pops]

We just had the episode where Sam tests the ancient weapon thing and
gets to do sliders onto a parallel world where Hammond is still running the
SGC, but where it's now public and Landry is the President but a pretty
nasty one in that the country is under marshall law...

I didn't mind this episode too much .

[Gregorius]

Coop may just not have that ability because he gets too attached to his own work. If that's the case then he needs to hire someone to edit for him or have a trusted friend to point the errors out. If he thinks he can self edit with no problems than he's probably in denial. Very few writers can self edit properly.

I'll make that statement even broader: Very few people can be self-critical and their friends are either to apathic to point out failures or they are too scared they might lose the friendship. In fact the only people who excel at being self-critical are people who have the tendency to be perfectionists.

Anyway, Coop has the problem that his buddies at Bridge have become to close with him and thus have lost their objective views. Aside from that the fact that SG-1 got canned and Atlantis is heading down the same road means that they'll soon be out of a job and if they remain friends with Coop and he develops a new show they could get new jobs also (Probably it goes two ways).

If this is all taken into account the best thing for the Frat B@B is to hire, as you correctly suggested, outside persons to beta their stories. Furthermore they should call physicists and engineers and start getting the science back into the show (I won't elaborate on this but it has something to do with Atlantis, you can find it in the Adrift folder in the topic "Why steal ZPMs ...").

Yeah, that set got a little old, didn't it. I was longing for some forests of old. Though I hear it's harder to find those spots for filming these days.

I heard those rumours also, I think it had something to do with global warming.

[saberhagen83]

yeah and Sateda shows that he can be a good writer.

it's just that whole 'big picture' thing that he seems to have issues with

I agree. I think he should stick to the writing really. Cause I think he has written some really good episodes over the years. Sateda is one of them. But as a showrunner he managed to split the fanbase pretty good! I'm not sure if he had, but I think it would have been a better idea had they been 2 working on SG1 as shorwrunner. That way there is often gonna be a 2nd opinion about things. I think a 2nd opinion is very important with these kind of projects, or else you get to attached so certain things you yourself like and it won't improve.

Take SGA as another example. The writers and showrunners seemed to have gotten very attached to McKay and Sheppard. So much that Teyla, Ronon, Weir and also Ford were relegated to the background. Coop seemd to have been very attached to the whole Vaniel thing that it took over the show from the core cast.

[Rogue]

I agree. I think he should stick to the writing really. Cause I think he has written some really good episodes over the years. Sateda is one of them. But as a showrunner he managed to split the fanbase pretty good! I'm not sure if he had, but I think it would have been a better idea had they been 2 working on SG1 as shorwrunner. That way there is often gonna be a 2nd opinion about things. I think a 2nd opinion is very important with these kind of projects, or else you get to attached so certain things you yourself like and it won't improve.

Take SGA as another example. The writers and showrunners seemed to have gotten very attached to McKay and Sheppard. So much that Teyla, Ronon, Weir and also Ford were relegated to the background. Coop seemd to have been very attached to the whole Vaniel thing that it took over the show from the core cast.

These guys seem to only write what they enjoy up to the point where it takes over the show. Banter is great between characters and some pairings have a certain chemistry but it needs to be in small doses. If you like that pairing your in heaven, if not then there isn't much for you to enjoy. For me, I never got into the Vaniel pairing. I thought it was forced from the beginning. MS talked about the chemistry him and CB had and maybe as actors there was chemistry, but for me it didn't translate on the screen with their characters.

[silkie]

So here's my opinion on Coop's abilities as a show-runner
Let's compare with this
You own a shoe-factory - you don't promote your best worker to manager 'cause being a worker and being a manager require different kind of skills... Just MHO

[Mandysg1]

I agree. I think he should stick to the writing really. Cause I think he has written some really good episodes over the years. Sateda is one of them. But as a showrunner he managed to split the fanbase pretty good! I'm not sure if he had, but I think it would have been a better idea had they been 2 working on SG1 as shorwrunner. That way there is often gonna be a 2nd opinion about things. I think a 2nd opinion is very important with these kind of projects, or else you get to attached so certain things you yourself like and it won't improve.

Take SGA as another example. The writers and showrunners seemed to have gotten very attached to McKay and Sheppard. So much that Teyla, Ronon, Weir and also Ford were relegated to the background. Coop seemd to have been very attached to the whole Vaniel thing that it took over the show from the core cast.

With SGA I do have a bit more hope for the show. Joe in his blog has admitted that they have ignored Teyla's character (I think he may have mentioned Ronan, but I'm not sure) and that they are going to give Teyla more character development. Also the way they are introducing Sam's character is far better than how Cam was brought in. So I think they may have learned something from S9 and 10, but as they say the proof will be in the pudding.