S10: Critique & Contemplation

[The Signal]

Its weird, you can tell that I have really gone off the show as of late, this time last year I was loosing it over not seeing a new ep until October, now, I couldnt care less, such a shame

[Gregorius]

The problem with the comedy eps these days is that they pander to the lowest common denominator. They're all about sex and scatalogical "humor" and huge blinking neon signs informing us that THIS IS FUNNY! LAUGH! as opposed to the humor of earlier seasons which was more subtle and occasionally required you to have a brain in order to understand it.

They're following a trend, the "Make-everything-mainstream" trend. This trend is caused by an infectious disease that first appears with network producers. It's main symptome is the $ $ eyes those infected get, other symptomes include a loss in creativity and alienating the "old" fanbase of a show.

Besides, who can blame them? Most "old" fans will continue to watch because they're so used to watching it and the new fanbase will love it because it's like a soap opera in space, and they get the money. And since action alone isn't enough you'll add a bit of sex here and a bit of sexual humour there (See Charmed as a perfect example) and you'll have great ratings.

[STARGATE7777]

I'm not sure I agree with not wanting Jack back just because some people DID want Jack back. The people who wanted him back actually liked the character and missed his presense on the show. I'm hoping that RDA will help to replace the adolescent humor with some actual humor.

Maybe the show really couldn't continue without RDA. If he was the reason that many fans watched and he wasn't replaced by anyone that the fans cared to watch then I'd say that this is true. You can't dictate why fans watch a show. They brought in CB and BB in order to bring in an established fan base. It just didn't work out the way they thought.

As far as fitting him into the storyline ,when have they ever thought that far in advance...they killed off Janet, got rid of the Gou'ld, etc because they always thought the show was going to end.

No one was as anti season 10 than me. I can't stomach Mitchell, Vala doesn't make sense, the Ori are boring, the 3 original characters are barely noticed. I look at RDA returning as at least a HOPE that things may return to the way they were. We didn't even have a glimmer before.

If you think that I see RDA as the saviour of Stargate maybe you're right....he was the hero for 8 years. If he can't fix it then there really is no hope.

[Skydiver]

I think jack coming back is nothing more than a ratings stunt....and perhaps a way to put the show to bed.

[ShadowMaat]

I'm not sure I agree with not wanting Jack back just because some people DID want Jack back.

I never said that. What I said is that this will further "justify" all those psychotic "bring back X!" campaigns that spiral so heavily out of control. There will be those who claim credit for RDA's return and there will be those who will look at the actions of these people and say, "If it worked for them, maybe it'll work for MY character too!"

I resent the implication- real or imagined- that TPTB are caving in to fan demands. It makes them look weak and stupid, IMO.

As for RDA canceling out the "adolescent humor", I'm glad you think that way. Unfortunately, I can only see him adding to it, much as he did over the past few seasons he was on the show. Jack's latter-series humor was MUCH coarser than his earlier-series stuff and I, for one, didn't like it. But if it works for you that's what's important, right?

It's all individual interpretation. I see RDA's return as another nail in the coffin of the show. Just when I thought they couldn't squeeze in any more.

[EmmaPeel]

I never said that. What I said is that this will further "justify" all those psychotic "bring back X!" campaigns that spiral so heavily out of control. There will be those who claim credit for RDA's return and there will be those who will look at the actions of these people and say, "If it worked for them, maybe it'll work for MY character too!"

I agree. Having said that, I don't think the writers should NOT do something they want to do just because some "psychotic" fans will interpret it as meaning *they* (and their compaigns) were responsible.

I have to laugh because the anti-S/J people are on another forum are going nuts because they are convinced having RDA back means they are going to have to suffer the pangs of ship again. So they already are gearing up to write their letters against the ship, as are those who want the ship, I suspect.

Like it or not, PTB seem to think WX kind of stuff is really funny and it seems as if they want to do what is fun for them (cast and crew) for the 200 eppy; a bit self-indulgent, but it *is* their show. And it would just make sense that they would ask RDA back for the 200 eppy -- at least to me. And if RDA feels 'energized' and offers to come back for a few eppies if they want him....come on, do you think they are going to say "no?" And if some wacko fan thinks *they* are responsible for RDA returning, what are you gonna do?

Having said *that* and being a big RDA/Jack fan, I am sorry he is coming back. It does all start with the writing for me. I thought most of S9 was very bad in that department and Jack coming back ain't gonna make the writing suddenly better. For selfish reasons, I would like him not to come back. I want the good memories rather than being confronted with the potential of being really really sorry Jack actually came back. Selfish of me, but there it is.

In spite of it all, I will give S10 a chance. Was going to anyway even though I am not at all enamored with Vala and Mitchell. And if it's bad, I can always walk away.

[suse]

[QUOTE]

I never said that. What I said is that this will further "justify" all those psychotic "bring back X!" campaigns that spiral so heavily out of control. There will be those who claim credit for RDA's return and there will be those who will look at the actions of these people and say, "If it worked for them, maybe it'll work for MY character too!"

I said it though.
I

resent the implication- real or imagined- that TPTB are caving in to fan demands. It makes them look weak and stupid, IMO.

If the shoe fits...

And since I tihnk they caved on the whole Lead Male Action Hero*tm) debacle...

Ya know, now I'm not so sure about the caving part. Where they even going to have Sam, Daniel and Teal'c back for S9? Mitchell getting command whould make sense if they weren't. Otherwise...

Feh. I know my almost happy outlook could be spoiled pretty quickly. I didn't expect it to take only 2 hours though.

As for RDA canceling out the "adolescent humor", I'm glad you think that way. Unfortunately, I can only see him adding to it, much as he did over the past few seasons he was on the show. Jack's latter-series humor was MUCH coarser than his earlier-series stuff and I, for one, didn't like it. But if it works for you that's what's important, right?

It's all individual interpretation. I see RDA's return as another nail in the coffin of the show. Just when I thought they couldn't squeeze in any more.

Agreed.

Suse

[suse]

I agree. Having said that, I don't think the writers should NOT do something they want to do just because some "psychotic" fans will interpret it as meaning *they* (and their compaigns) were responsible.

I have to laugh because the anti-S/J people are on another forum are going nuts because they are convinced having RDA back means they are going to have to suffer the pangs of ship again. So they already are gearing up to write their letters against the ship, as are those who want the ship, I suspect.

Like it or not, PTB seem to think WX kind of stuff is really funny and it seems as if they want to do what is fun for them (cast and crew) for the 200 eppy; a bit self-indulgent, but it *is* their show. And it would just make sense that they would ask RDA back for the 200 eppy -- at least to me. And if RDA feels 'energized' and offers to come back for a few eppies if they want him....come on, do you think they are going to say "no?" And if some wacko fan thinks *they* are responsible for RDA returning, what are you gonna do?

Having said *that* and being a big RDA/Jack fan, I am sorry he is coming back. It does all start with the writing for me. I thought most of S9 was very bad in that department and Jack coming back ain't gonna make the writing suddenly better. For selfish reasons, I would like him not to come back. I want the good memories rather than being confronted with the potential of being really really sorry Jack actually came back. Selfish of me, but there it is.

In spite of it all, I will give S10 a chance. Was going to anyway even though I am not at all enamored with Vala and Mitchell. And if it's bad, I can always walk away.

Ah, that's much more what I wanted to say. Sorry 3 threads are frustrating me at the mo.

Suse

[STARGATE7777]

I have to agree with EmmaPeel. I mean, are they really going to say no to RDA? And the question remains, what will make Sg1 better?

They are the same writers that gave us Lost City, Window of Opportunity, etc. The only thing that I think changed was RDA's involvement. I agree that when he decreased his time his part became more forced and his humor not as evident. I believe that was more to do with the lack of screen time than his acting. If we have Jack heavy episodes then I think they will be good. I can't think of a single episode that featured Jack that I didn't like.

For me, this past year was difficult to take with all the changes. If things remain the same and the writing remains poor then I guess only 1/4 of season 10 won't be crap. As far as the ratings...it's what TPTB do. That's why they brought in CB and BB. Not because they liked them but because they thought they would bring fans with them.

[prion]

I think jack coming back is nothing more than a ratings stunt....and perhaps a way to put the show to bed.

Yup. I see it as stuntcasting, becuase they WILL push that RDA is back when the ads start back up. I'm willing to bet they wont' say in WHICH episode which will make die-hard fans watch all the episodes in hopes of seeing Jack again. It's called marketing...

What we REALLY need back are the writers who worked on the show during Showtime.

[EmmaPeel]

Yup. I see it as stuntcasting, becuase they WILL push that RDA is back when the ads start back up. I'm willing to bet they wont' say in WHICH episode which will make die-hard fans watch all the episodes in hopes of seeing Jack again. It's called marketing...

What we REALLY need back are the writers who worked on the show during Showtime.

I think Stargate7777 makes a valid point. Like casting CB and Ben Browder, plus LD and Bridges for that matter, *wasn't* stuntcasting; wasn't marketing? Surely was. They want the ratings? Do you think have CB popping out of her leather bustiers wasn't an attempt to attract a certain demographic which would bring in ratings? Season ending cliffhangers aren't done solely for ratings? It's all about ratings, IMO.

Regarding die-hard fans: I get the sense that many of them/us who may have drifted away, still frequent these forums. So all one has to do is check in here or on another forum to find out when a particular actor will be appearing in an episode. Those things always have a way of getting out.

But I'm with you 100% on the writing issue. The writing has been the problem for me. I'd kind of like to see Jack with Maybourne again myself.

[ShadowMaat]

I agree. Having said that, I don't think the writers should NOT do something they want to do just because some "psychotic" fans will interpret it as meaning *they* (and their compaigns) were responsible.

True. But I don't see TPTB as doing this "in spite" of the psycho fans, I see them as taking advantage of the situation to pull off a meaningless bit of stuntcasting.

Nothing anyone says will ever convince me that bringing Jack back for ANYTHING serves any purpose other than to boost the ratings. It isn't because he's essential to the story, it isn't because they "miss" him, it isn't an effort to appease the fans- all they care about is making money and boosting their ratings.

[pittsburghgirl]

Shadow I wish I could green you again.
the one thing that really irked me about RDA's portrayal of Jack in the later years was his annoying habit of playing Jack as the village idiot. I used to just cringe when he did that. i kept wanting to give him a t-shirt that said-I'm not really the vilage idiot, i just play one on tv. that or-there is a village in colorado missing their idiot, and I know where he is.

do i believe that this is the shows grasping at straws because they screwed up big time this season=-oh yeah-do I also think that this might be Rick's "told ya so"-oh yeah to the max.

if they have a brain in their fat little heads they will redirect the storyline mucho pronto-because except for maybe seeing what episode 200 is like-if it doesn't improve radically my coming back to the show is not bloody likely

[EmmaPeel]

True. But I don't see TPTB as doing this "in spite" of the psycho fans, I see them as taking advantage of the situation to pull off a meaningless bit of stuntcasting.

Nothing anyone says will ever convince me that bringing Jack back for ANYTHING serves any purpose other than to boost the ratings. It isn't because he's essential to the story, it isn't because they "miss" him, it isn't an effort to appease the fans- all they care about is making money and boosting their ratings.

True; I can't argue with that. I guess I don't feel so "insulted" because I never expected more of them. TV is about ratings and staying on the air. While I've been a fan of Stargate since Day 1, I've never seen it as great science-fiction, daring, cutting edge or even particularly well-written. They have had some gems, but I think that's in spite of themselves or a matter of statistics.


For me the show lost it's luster after S4 and I would never buy S7-9 DVDs. I still watch because it's a habit and because every now and they have a few minutes of stuff that really entertains me.

But boy am I gonna miss the West Wing. I still love that show.

[prion]

True; I can't argue with that. I guess I don't feel so "insulted" because I never expected more of them. TV is about ratings and staying on the air. While I've been a fan of Stargate since Day 1, I've never seen it as great science-fiction, daring, cutting edge or even particularly well-written. They have had some gems, but I think that's in spite of themselves or a matter of statistics.


For me the show lost it's luster after S4 and I would never buy S7-9 DVDs. I still watch because it's a habit and because every now and they have a few minutes of stuff that really entertains me.

But boy am I gonna miss the West Wing. I still love that show.

Stargate has been and always will be that generic mix of scifi and action adventure. That's what sells. Hard core scifi is a very tough sell to a general audience. Face it, shows like BSG could easily be a soap in space, West Wing in space, etc. They're all scenarios but in a 'scifi' situation. It's when you bring in exoticc aliens, strange cultures, etc. and wow, perhaps even science, that you get science fiction. Stargate's allure has been scifi for me, but mostly the characters.

So after Jack became 'pod Jack' in the latter seasons, it was a relief that RDA decided to move on and do what he wanted and not stay with the show. In that way, the writers would no longer create lame reasons to insert his chracter for 5 minutes here, 2 minutes there, not realizing that the bulk of fans would much rather have Jack in one really good episode (every five eps or so). And Sam could also stop acting like a lovestruck whatever and never making up her mind about Jack, and then could become a more confident person.

If they don't bolster the writing, wel,l the writing is on the wall for season 10 being the last. Heck, I watched all of season 9 (awake, this time, not falling asleep like in some other seasons) and still can't remember much past retreaded Trek plots and knights in shining armor and the Cigarette Smoking Man looking pretty pale....

I'll watch season 10, because, well, might as well watch the show till the bitter end and SGA is on right after it and I'm enjoying that one a lot more.