S10: Critique & Contemplation

[Zoser]

Remember a while back when the rumour was circulating about MS being approached to star in the third series? Given the less than enthusiastic response to that, MGM would be much better off going with all new characters.

Would that have been so bad if it had been Daniel instead of Action!Jackson? The exploration of different worlds and different cultures was one of the attractions of Stargate. Although if I see one more 'Renaissance Faire' worlds I'll scream. The culture in the episode Demons I didn't mind - it was a gritty dirty place. (I figure any place without plumbing and electricity must equal grit and dirt or slavery.)

[Skydiver]

yes, the medieval village was beyond old

on the upside, if you want a stargate costume contest, ren fest costumes are easy

[ReganX]

Would that have been so bad if it had been Daniel instead of Action!Jackson? The exploration of different worlds and different cultures was one of the attractions of Stargate. Although if I see one more 'Renaissance Faire' worlds I'll scream. The culture in the episode Demons I didn't mind - it was a gritty dirty place. (I figure and place without plumbing and electricity must equal grit and dirt or slavery.)

Between Action Jackson and Vaniel, I don't think that I'd be able to watch a series centered around Daniel, even if RealDaniel was able to escape the waffle house and get back to Earth.

[jckfan55]

I watched Uninvited on my S10 DVDs & I kept thinking: CLandry! Thanks for that guys.

[Skydiver]

you're welcome

Bawk, Bawk!!

[suse]

you're welcome

Bawk, Bawk!!

Oh geez, Sky! I just snorted a *smoothie*!!! Coldcoldcoldcold...

"Bawk, Bawk!!"


suse

[astrogeologist]

the bad taste left in my mouth by much of S9 & 10 makes me NOT interested in a third incarnation.

Seasons 9 and 10 were so disappointing and disgusting that I found myself more deeply insulted than I ever have been before by a series that I was previously a fan of.

rant ahead:

Spoiler:

There have been times that I didn't agree with the choices made by the writers or showrunners of various series, but - they were all just TV or movie series... and I knew that I wasn't always going to agree with the choices made by others.

No other TV series (or movie or book series) ever truly got me *angry* or made me feel so insulted as Seasons 9 and 10 have made me feel.

For me, there are two top reasons for my disgust:

1) that they wrote out the female in command in order to bring in a male lead and put him in command. And I am deeply disappointed that there wasn't loud outrage all over the place because of this. It is profoundly scary to me that so many folks, viewers and fans are OK with the female ousted for the new male lead. I don't remember finding any outraged headlines, or even any noteworthy or challenging comments, in any articles written by non-Stargate columnists regarding this issue. It's bizzare and scary that it's a non-issue, or an issue of lesser importance than others concerning SG-1 after RDA's departure.

2)that they brought in the two lead Farscape actors to play leads in SG-1. At first, (and mostly before Season 9 actually started), there were lots of comments and posts about 'Fargate' and 'Starscape'... but then after 'it actually happened' (BB and CB *were* brought* in as leads)... that topic seemed to just about die away. As if the SG-1 PTB *won* by just doing it (by persistence). To me, it's still Fargate. I can't imagine... say, bringing in Patrick Stewart and Jonathan Frakes to play new male leads (male leads with scripts numbered 1 and 2) in SG-1 for Seasons 9 and 10. How could anyone who was a fan of ST:The Next Generation watch Seasons 9 and 10 without constantly thinking they were watching Captain Picard and Riker undercover or some such?

This thread has been important for me- it lets me know that there are other people who don't agree with what was done - or the messages that it sends.

I am so disgusted with what they did for Seasons 9 & 10, that I don't even like watching my Season 1-7 DVDs. I've thought about throwing them away, but that seems like such a waste... so I've briefly thought about donating them to the local library - but I don't want to participate in any way with the proliferation of the Stargate Empire... so then.... I have seriously thought about running my Season 1-7 SG-1 DVDs through my shredder and then mailing the shredded debris to SG-1's PTB in Vancouver. They'd just throw it all away and chalk it up to 'crazy fan'.. or rather 'rabid ex-fan', and then shrug their shoulders and forget about it.

It's interesting to me that the later year changes in Stargate have elicited such strong reactions from me... I've watched lots of scifi series... and I used to read many scifi novels (and series of books)... and there have been occassional things that I didn't understand (e.g., the sudden pairing of Chakotay and 7 of 9 in Voyager) or agree with (e.g., the development of T'Pol's character in Enterprise or the Deep Space 9 pairing of Kira with Odo... I thought it was odd, but since they did it, I gave it a chance and got used to it... but then didn't like the choice to pull them apart at the end of the series as each of the pair simply went off to 'their own lives') but none of these things made me want to stop watching. None of the choices or developments of these series were so insulting to me that I stopped watching out of anger. Which definitely happened to me with Stargate SG-1.

I think it might be because, while I enjoyed watching the many other scifi series (e.g., Star Trek, Babylon 5, Battlestar Galactica, etc.), I didn't expect much more than some solid scifi entertainment. For some reason, I saw the potential for more than that with Stargate SG-1 and how the series progressed. The potential for the female second-in-command (an action series cliche) to become the CO of the action field unit? Wow... that had the potential to be groundbreaking.. and to have it occur as a natural development of the series (without contrivances)? Wow.

But then... they didn't do it. And they had to gut the series to prevent it from happening.

Ugh. My anger runs deep.

[pittsburghgirl]

Pats astrogeologist. I know how you feel on my lj i have a semi serious poll on whether i ought to sell my dvds or not.

[astrogeologist]

Remember a while back when the rumour was circulating about MS being approached to star in the third series? Given the less than enthusiastic response to that, MGM would be much better off going with all new characters.

Negative reactions? Here? It seems like there are so many Daniel/MS fans that I can't imagine anything but a rabidly positive fervor with regards to the potential for Daniel to star in the third Stargate series. Many of the Daniel/MS fans appear to be very bitter that it's Carter and not Daniel that is going to Atlantis (many of them seem to see it as a one-or-the-other type of thing, either Carter *or* Daniel).

Would that have been so bad if it had been Daniel instead of Action!Jackson? The exploration of different worlds and different cultures was one of the attractions of Stargate. Although if I see one more 'Renaissance Faire' worlds I'll scream. The culture in the episode Demons I didn't mind - it was a gritty dirty place. (I figure any place without plumbing and electricity must equal grit and dirt or slavery.)

Does Atlantis have a 'prominent' linguist and/or archeologist?

[Melora]

Negative reactions? Here? It seems like there are so many Daniel/MS fans that I can't imagine anything but a rabidly positive fervor with regards to the potential for Daniel to star in the third Stargate series. Many of the Daniel/MS fans appear to be very bitter that it's Carter and not Daniel that is going to Atlantis (many of them seem to see it as a one-or-the-other type of thing, either Carter *or* Daniel).Does Atlantis have a 'prominent' linguist and/or archeologist?

No, Atlantis doesn't have a linguist or archaeologist in the main or recurring cast. I'm sure there are linguists and anthropologists in the expedition, we just never see them. In short, the anthropology/archeology/ linguistics storyline is not one TPTB have ever really tried to explore on the show. The show is more about fighting the bad guys and meeting new peoples that could potentially serve as allies against the Wraith and Asurans.

When they did need a translator, Elizabeth Weir was usually the one to do it. But it was rare for them to need translation (at least on screen) as most everything is in English. And there are no ruins to do archaeological research in. There is just a huge amount of ancient technology that they are trying to slowly figure out and make work.

I really don't get the argument that Daniel would have been a better character to cross over. But that is a topic for another thread.

[Frostfox]

Negative reactions? Here? It seems like there are so many Daniel/MS fans that I can't imagine anything but a rabidly positive fervor with regards to the potential for Daniel to star in the third Stargate series. Many of the Daniel/MS fans appear to be very bitter that it's Carter and not Daniel that is going to Atlantis (many of them seem to see it as a one-or-the-other type of thing, either Carter *or* Daniel).Does Atlantis have a 'prominent' linguist and/or archeologist?

Really curious about this.
I haven't seen any of the Daniel fans on LJ or on Gateworld being bitter about Sam going to Atlantis, the only place I've seen it is OS and they are hardly typical of Daniel fans as a whole (thank heavens). I'm not saying it's not true or doubting you, I just wondered where on the net you'd been to get that impression? The main objection seems to be coming from Atlantis fans, which I can understand, some of whom never even watched SG1 and would have been no happier with Daniel joining than Sam.

Personally? Daniel is my favourite character but I'm quite, quite happy that Sam is going to Atlantis (apart from my reservations about how she might be used there and feeling sorry for the hurt feelings of the Atlantis fans who feel TPTB are changing their show too much).

Reading between the lines on MS involvement and taking time off to be with his family, I suspect we wouldn't have got Daniel for the whole of season 11, just some episodes and I think MS is itching to move on from the franchise, which, after 10 years, I can't blame him.

FF

[Zoser]

Seasons 9 and 10 were so disappointing and disgusting that I found myself more deeply insulted than I ever have been before by a series that I was previously a fan of.

rant ahead:

Spoiler:

There have been times that I didn't agree with the choices made by the writers or showrunners of various series, but - they were all just TV or movie series... and I knew that I wasn't always going to agree with the choices made by others.

No other TV series (or movie or book series) ever truly got me *angry* or made me feel so insulted as Seasons 9 and 10 have made me feel.

For me, there are two top reasons for my disgust:

1) that they wrote out the female in command in order to bring in a male lead and put him in command. And I am deeply disappointed that there wasn't loud outrage all over the place because of this. It is profoundly scary to me that so many folks, viewers and fans are OK with the female ousted for the new male lead. I don't remember finding any outraged headlines, or even any noteworthy or challenging comments, in any articles written by non-Stargate columnists regarding this issue. It's bizzare and scary that it's a non-issue, or an issue of lesser importance than others concerning SG-1 after RDA's departure.

2)that they brought in the two lead Farscape actors to play leads in SG-1. At first, (and mostly before Season 9 actually started), there were lots of comments and posts about 'Fargate' and 'Starscape'... but then after 'it actually happened' (BB and CB *were* brought* in as leads)... that topic seemed to just about die away. As if the SG-1 PTB *won* by just doing it (by persistence). To me, it's still Fargate. I can't imagine... say, bringing in Patrick Stewart and Jonathan Frakes to play new male leads (male leads with scripts numbered 1 and 2) in SG-1 for Seasons 9 and 10. How could anyone who was a fan of ST:The Next Generation watch Seasons 9 and 10 without constantly thinking they were watching Captain Picard and Riker undercover or some such?

This thread has been important for me- it lets me know that there are other people who don't agree with what was done - or the messages that it sends.

I am so disgusted with what they did for Seasons 9 & 10, that I don't even like watching my Season 1-7 DVDs. I've thought about throwing them away, but that seems like such a waste... so I've briefly thought about donating them to the local library - but I don't want to participate in any way with the proliferation of the Stargate Empire... so then.... I have seriously thought about running my Season 1-7 SG-1 DVDs through my shredder and then mailing the shredded debris to SG-1's PTB in Vancouver. They'd just throw it all away and chalk it up to 'crazy fan'.. or rather 'rabid ex-fan', and then shrug their shoulders and forget about it.

It's interesting to me that the later year changes in Stargate have elicited such strong reactions from me... I've watched lots of scifi series... and I used to read many scifi novels (and series of books)... and there have been occassional things that I didn't understand (e.g., the sudden pairing of Chakotay and 7 of 9 in Voyager) or agree with (e.g., the development of T'Pol's character in Enterprise or the Deep Space 9 pairing of Kira with Odo... I thought it was odd, but since they did it, I gave it a chance and got used to it... but then didn't like the choice to pull them apart at the end of the series as each of the pair simply went off to 'their own lives') but none of these things made me want to stop watching. None of the choices or developments of these series were so insulting to me that I stopped watching out of anger. Which definitely happened to me with Stargate SG-1.

I think it might be because, while I enjoyed watching the many other scifi series (e.g., Star Trek, Babylon 5, Battlestar Galactica, etc.), I didn't expect much more than some solid scifi entertainment. For some reason, I saw the potential for more than that with Stargate SG-1 and how the series progressed. The potential for the female second-in-command (an action series cliche) to become the CO of the action field unit? Wow... that had the potential to be groundbreaking.. and to have it occur as a natural development of the series (without contrivances)? Wow.

But then... they didn't do it. And they had to gut the series to prevent it from happening.

Ugh. My anger runs deep.

I understand.

I have lived in this sexist world for almost six decades and brushing aside Carter annoyed me but didn't surprise me. She should have at least been pissed by what happened - that reaction would have been human and brought some interest.

As for the infusion of CB and BB they have talent but the characters as written and introduced were wretched.

I knew I would have a bit of a hard time without my favorite character but was more than willing to give 9 a chance. I hated the bOri, I hated the idiotic Merlin-Arthurian mythology arc, I felt nothing for Mitchell and despised Vala.
And the team the I enjoyed watching for 8 years were barely there and if so not quite recognizable.

Like I said I've been around a while and this is the only show I have ever gotten so involved with. Yeah there are many I have liked and wouldn't miss a show but never second guessed TPTB decisions. (I could wax on about Gilles as father figure in Buffy - the musical sound track is in my car's CD player). Some I was sad when they ended but never bought or taped series till Stargate. Right now I'm enjoying Damages - it has a complex plot and the characters have many layers. Will I tape it or buy it - no. If they kill my favorite character will I cry - hell no.
But I cried the night, in Moebius,when Daniel said the original SG-1 was executed by RA. I think everything ended that night. So I dwell in Delusionville and I enjoy the DVD's and repeats of the early seasons and hope Continuum will be half way decent.

[scifithinker]

I am so disgusted with what they did for Seasons 9 & 10, that I don't even like watching my Season 1-7 DVDs. I've thought about throwing them away, but that seems like such a waste... so I've briefly thought about donating them to the local library - but I don't want to participate in any way with the proliferation of the Stargate Empire... so then.... I have seriously thought about running my Season 1-7 SG-1 DVDs through my shredder and then mailing the shredded debris to SG-1's PTB in Vancouver. They'd just throw it all away and chalk it up to 'crazy fan'.. or rather 'rabid ex-fan', and then shrug their shoulders and forget about it.

I hope you'll reconsider destroying your DVDs. I work in a school library and volunteer at a branch of the public library. There is never enough money to truly support acquisitions. Your DVDs are of the part of the series you enjoyed. No matter what do with them, the franchise has already made its money off of you, so it's not like they benefit financially if you donate them. Those who check them out are not likely to run out and buy them and thus contribute to a rising bottom line for them.

Also consider how you'll feel about the series in five years. Your feelings won't be as strong, and maybe you'll enjoy the older episodes then.

[ReganX]

Negative reactions? Here? It seems like there are so many Daniel/MS fans that I can't imagine anything but a rabidly positive fervor with regards to the potential for Daniel to star in the third Stargate series.

I know that the forum poll showed that only around 25% of people favoured Daniel as the star of the third series. Given how quickly TPTB and MS denied that he had been approached, if they were hoping for a positive response, I would have to guess that they didn't get it.

Many of the Daniel/MS fans appear to be very bitter that it's Carter and not Daniel that is going to Atlantis (many of them seem to see it as a one-or-the-other type of thing, either Carter *or* Daniel).Does Atlantis have a 'prominent' linguist and/or archeologist?

Not to the best of my knowledge, which is precisely why Daniel shouldn't be brought over. At least Sam's experience and areas of expertise will allow her to take part in the stories of the existing characters. With Daniel, he would either need standalone stories of his own, or the existing characters would become supporting players in his stories.

[suse]

I know that the forum poll showed that only around 25% of people favoured Daniel as the star of the third series. Given how quickly TPTB and MS denied that he had been approached, if they were hoping for a positive response, I would have to guess that they didn't get it.



Not to the best of my knowledge, which is precisely why Daniel shouldn't be brought over. At least Sam's experience and areas of expertise will allow her to take part in the stories of the existing characters. With Daniel, he would either need standalone stories of his own, or the existing characters would become supporting players in his stories.

.....

suse