S10: Critique & Contemplation

[Zoser]

And I think they lost sight of what a lot of fans liked. They seemed to latch onto the puerile, and lost sight of the more thoughtful ideas and scenes. Few things are good when in excess.

I get the feeling that they had an emphasis on 'Let's Have Our Kind of Fun' and there will be fans that will watch us and like us and worship us - and who cares about the rest?

For me, many of TPTB came across as selfish and unwilling to listen or hear anything other than how wonderful they were (and the show and it's new characters were).

I just kept hearing how the new actors rejuvinated the show, saved the show, broght new life to the show, brought new energy to the show, etc. In short, all I heard, over and over, was how wonderful TPTB found the new cast. A friend of mine calls it 'Making Reality'... something that folks can often get away with for quite awhile in many facets of our society.

I'm also still irked that when SG-1 was put into the Guiness Book of World Records for longest scifi show - the pic that they put in there was of Mitchell's SG-1!!! The new cast of the last two years effectively got credit for the longest scifi show... and I found it galling that there wasn't a pic of the original SG-1, with RDA and Hammond and Janet and Jacob, etc.

It was also just plain bizzaro to have the new cast celebrating the show at it's 200th episode... it came across as if the new cast had somehow been around since the beginning and were responsible for the entire 10 years.

It would be like putting Star Trek into the Records book with only a picture of Bakula's Enterprise crew, and no pics of the original Star Trek team. Or like celebrating Star Trek's 40+ years with a huge emphasis on the latest Star Trek vehicle and very little homage to the other 4 series or the 10 movies.

I've wondered if any of TPTB had a good friend that told them honestly what a load of cr@p 9 & 10 were? My daughter painted all the downstairs rooms of her new house and asked me if I liked the colors. I told her the truth - some I liked, some not so much - but I didn't have to live there, so it was what she liked is what mattered. A TV show is not just an artistic endeavor but a commercial enterprise as well. The people that watch do count or they should, but I suppose TPTB know that now.

[Zoser]

Vala is the apple of RCC eye. The show revolves around her just like the Wizard of Oz revolved around Dorothy. The other characters are there for support. But I agree with you, it was wrong.

It kind of swirls around her like water down a drain.

[the dancer of spaz]

Shortly after 200 aired, I think I pretended like the Wizard of Oz spoof didn't happen, because if I thought about it too long, it'd annoy me.

[Mandysg1]

Shortly after 200 aired, I think I pretended like the Wizard of Oz spoof didn't happen, because if I thought about it too long, it'd annoy me.

Oh, sorry for bringing it to your attention Spazzy....now go back to your happy place

[the dancer of spaz]

Oh, sorry for bringing it to your attention Spazzy....now go back to your happy place

Ah, yes... My happy place.

*thinly-veiled ignorant bliss and selective memories*

That's better.

[Deejay435]

What a lot of "pro S10" people don't understand is that I have nothing against the chages really. I was all for a S9 and had let RDA go, and hoped that whoever stepped in to fill the void could do well. The thing I didn't like was Sam not in charge of SG1, but what was worse was that the writing for Mitchell as a character were bad. In the beginning of S9 it was all about Vala/Daniel, Mitchell didn't get anywhere as a character. And when Vala left, it got too much. It was like the writers got it that he was underused and not developed, and so I felt we got an overdose of him, and that didn't make me like the character more, not to mention the reckless and hero kind of character he quickly became.

Vala too did have great potential, I think we saw some of that in episodes such as "Line in the Sand" or even her first apperance in S8 "Prometheus Unbound". She was more of a strong female character in these. In a way I kind of think she might have become a better character in a possible S11, as Shanks didn't sign on as I understand it. Vala with Daniel is horror in my eyes, whenever he isn't around I think we see the strong and serious character in her, and a character I could start to like if the show it self also took a turn towards the old style.

I couldn't agree more to your point on change. I do get tired of hearing "you just don't like change". I always feel like replying "you just don't like changing your lame argument." But I fear the wet noodle of Sky, so I don't.

I also agree that Vala was 100% more tolerable in the Daniel-free episodes. I don't know that I would ever have come to like her, really-too much baggage there for me to see her as anything but a criminal who doesn't care about anyone but herself. But without Daniel she does become so much more deep and consistent. Since TPTB were so in love with Vala, and I knew she wasn't going anwhere, I found myself hoping Shanks never came back. And that's a pity, because I liked Daniel, up till season 9, far more than I can ever conceive of liking Vala.

And I think part of that never-ending dislike for me was because of how neglected and then ruined the Mitchel character was because of her. And how much all the characters had to be dumbed-down in order to make her presence in the SGC remotely acceptable. (To the other characters, not to me.) I mean-she was their prisoner the last they saw her-she nearly killed the crew of the Promie. She had escaped their brig. And she gets a warm welcome because Daniel "vouches for her"? Setting aside Daniel being stupid enough to vouch for her, Landry had to have known her record, why did he let civilian Daniel's "vouching" deter him from his duty?

I agree that BB got the shaft. TPTB would have done better to make Mitchell completely different from Crichton. The problem IMHO is that either the network or TPTB got so locked into what they thought were the prefab slots each character was supposed to fit into. They forgot that
1) Jack was more than a collection of wisecracks
2) Sam was more than a technobabbler
3)Teal'c could do more than get tortured or call for Jaffa freedom


So they thought Mitchell should be (their image of) Jack, Sam couldn't lead the team, etc.

And then, perhaps b/c MS was tired of playing a nice guy we got sarcastic, angry Jackson (whaat?!)

Imagine the season 9 & 10 we might have had if:
a) Sam stayed in command
b) Daniel was himself (or it was explained what his problem was)
c) they allowed Teal'c to continue to grow
d) Mitchell learned the ropes from "the Big 3"

I imagine I wouldn't have been left with such a bitter taste in my mouth for TPTB and much-misused Mitchell.

Sigh. Don't you hate when you write a reply and THEN realize you're replying to week old posts? No matter, I'm posting anyway.

[Mandysg1]

I also agree that Vala was 100% more tolerable in the Daniel-free episodes. I don't know that I would ever have come to like her, really-too much baggage there for me to see her as anything but a criminal who doesn't care about anyone but herself. But without Daniel she does become so much more deep and consistent. Since TPTB were so in love with Vala, and I knew she wasn't going anwhere, I found myself hoping Shanks never came back. And that's a pity, because I liked Daniel, up till season 9, far more than I can ever conceive of liking Vala.

There's the thing, if they had kept Vala like that, in character for her, it could have worked better. Every show needs a villan or a rogue, Valal could have been that. A necessary evil, that could have been worked in like Maybourne. We hated Harry in the beginning, but he grew on us, and we eventually liked his character. Why couldn't they have done that with Vala

[the dancer of spaz]

There's the thing, if they had kept Vala like that, in character for her, it could have worked better. Every show needs a villan or a rogue, Valal could have been that. A necessary evil, that could have been worked in like Maybourne. We hated Harry in the beginning, but he grew on us, and we eventually liked his character. Why couldn't they have done that with Vala

That could've worked. Because then the team would've worked with her begrudgingly (which they seemed to do anyway), but we could've learned more about her life through them working with her. We could've learned about her family, about how lonely she's been, why she is the way she is, and we would've gotten a chance to see that depth as the TEAM saw that depth.

As it was, while I enjoyed seeing Vala interact with all of the other members of the team, I would've liked to see how they all of a sudden started to trust her so easily. We didn't really get to see that part, and I think it would've been better to see her earn each of their trust little by little through each mission.

[Strix varia]

That could've worked. Because then the team would've worked with her begrudgingly (which they seemed to do anyway), but we could've learned more about her life through them working with her. We could've learned about her family, about how lonely she's been, why she is the way she is, and we would've gotten a chance to see that depth as the TEAM saw that depth.

As it was, while I enjoyed seeing Vala interact with all of the other members of the team, I would've liked to see how they all of a sudden started to trust her so easily. We didn't really get to see that part, and I think it would've been better to see her earn each of their trust little by little through each mission.

In Prometheus, Vala came across as super competent, devious, clever, and extremely capable. She took out the entire crew without seemingly breaking a sweat. Her history as a former host had enormous story potential.

But instead of bringing her in with those super slick deadly/devious qualities, they went for the cheap laugh and made her Daniel's comedic foil. They took Catwoman and turned her into an insecure sex kitten without any claws. What a waste. In Prometheus, she had an element of danger about her. I didn't get that sense about her at all in seasons 9 and 10.

[AGateFan]

And I think they lost sight of what a lot of fans liked. They seemed to latch onto the puerile, and lost sight of the more thoughtful ideas and scenes. Few things are good when in excess.

I get the feeling that they had an emphasis on 'Let's Have Our Kind of Fun' and there will be fans that will watch us and like us and worship us - and who cares about the rest?

For me, many of TPTB came across as selfish and unwilling to listen or hear anything other than how wonderful they were (and the show and it's new characters were).

I just kept hearing how the new actors rejuvinated the show, saved the show, broght new life to the show, brought new energy to the show, etc. In short, all I heard, over and over, was how wonderful TPTB found the new cast. A friend of mine calls it 'Making Reality'... something that folks can often get away with for quite awhile in many facets of our society.

I'm also still irked that when SG-1 was put into the Guiness Book of World Records for longest scifi show - the pic that they put in there was of Mitchell's SG-1!!! The new cast of the last two years effectively got credit for the longest scifi show... and I found it galling that there wasn't a pic of the original SG-1, with RDA and Hammond and Janet and Jacob, etc.

It was also just plain bizzaro to have the new cast celebrating the show at it's 200th episode... it came across as if the new cast had somehow been around since the beginning and were responsible for the entire 10 years.

It would be like putting Star Trek into the Records book with only a picture of Bakula's Enterprise crew, and no pics of the original Star Trek team. Or like celebrating Star Trek's 40+ years with a huge emphasis on the latest Star Trek vehicle and very little homage to the other 4 series or the 10 movies.

You know, this wouldnt be so freaking annoying if the show was, you know, dieing. Last I checked the ratings before this "salvation" were the highest in the shows history. Sure RDA was leaving, if you just bring in another character or two and FIT THEM INTO THE ALREADY EXISTING, HIGH RATED SHOW, I think that may have "saved" the show a whole lot better then writing a new bad show. But thats just me.

EDIT: I misspelled rating as raging. Hey speaking of RAGING.. Who's usless idea was it anyway to put the useless, no-one-knows characters in the Genius Book and leave the REAL SG-1 characters (that made the show last) out? I can believe that TPTB are that foolish but I would think the people at Genius would have more sense. Especially considering how O'Neill schilled for Genius.

[Skydiver]

vala was great, before she became daniel's girl toy.

once she was relegated to 'daniel support....excuse me Jackson support' she just turned into a cliche.

she was a waste of the character's potential, a waste of claudia's potential and, well something sad. i wish she'd have been written better. i wish coop could have dragged his ideals out of puberty. i wish he could have treated the show with respect, instead of an inconvenience getting in the way of his 'vision'

his vision was better suited to a whoel new show. and it's too bad that skiffy wouldn';t let him have it.

unfortunately, once he tried to have his way, keep the sg1 name but make sgcommand, it'd doubtful that skiffy will hand him a show again. After all, if he can't keep a long standing franchise alive, what are the chances that he can make a show from the beginning and make it a hit?

If he'd have just continued to make sg1, he'd still have a job and he'd have a nice bit on his resume...instead of being marked as the guy that killed stargate

[astrogeologist]

You know, this wouldnt be so freaking annoying if the show was, you know, dieing. Last I checked the ratings before this "salvation" were the highest in the shows history. Sure RDA was leaving, if you just bring in another character or two and FIT THEM INTO THE ALREADY EXISTING, HIGH RATED SHOW, I think that may have "saved" the show a whole lot better then writing a new bad show. But thats just me.

I never understood that either... Season 8 had the highest-ever ratings for SG-1 - they had 3+ million viewers watching!!! and the ratings for throughout Season 8 were high. So, it's never made sense to me when they say that the new cast 'saved' the show.

The only thing that has been niggling at me is... what if there was someone high-up in power, who said that even with the show's high ratings, it would not get another season (because RDA was leaving), unless another 'RDA'-type was brought in? Another well-to-semi-known male-draw, another Lead Alpha Male for the show to revolve around?

ANd I have no idea how the politics may have worked for those at Scifi to want BB from Farscape...

[astrogeologist]

i wish coop could have dragged his ideals out of puberty. i wish he could have treated the show with respect, instead of an inconvenience getting in the way of his 'vision'

his vision was better suited to a whoel new show. and it's too bad that skiffy wouldn';t let him have it.

unfortunately, once he tried to have his way, keep the sg1 name but make sgcommand, it'd doubtful that skiffy will hand him a show again. After all, if he can't keep a long standing franchise alive, what are the chances that he can make a show from the beginning and make it a hit?

If he'd have just continued to make sg1, he'd still have a job and he'd have a nice bit on his resume...instead of being marked as the guy that killed stargate

I agree wholeheartedly that they just should have made a new show.

Three years ago, I wouldn't have thought I would feel that way. I was looking forward to Season 9, Carter's chance at leading SG-1 and a few newbies for freshness to the show.

After Season 9 was unveiled, however... ugh!

As for whether or not they will let SG-1's PTB go for another series... I think they will - because I don't think that they feel that SG-1 failed in the last two years. They have their 'positive glasses' on (they are like shipper glasses, but they are for the PTB, cast and crew of TV series) and they appear to be quite convinced that Seasons 9 and 10 were absolutely frellin' fantastic - and that it is the ratings systems that failed them. Ratings are wonderful when your show's ratings are high... but, (mockingly sarcastic here) wow, are those ratings systems screwed up when your show's ratings are low? (I spent some time over in the General Discussion Ratings thread listening to Season 9 and 10 fans lambaste the ratings systems)... And it's not just the fans, its the cast and PTB in their interviews as well (mumbling and grumbling indefinitely about how the ratings don't truly represent how wonderful their show and their supposedly larger number of viewers are).

At any rate - I fully expect that they are going to let these same folks create and launch a new series. Apparently, they already have (another mockingly sarcastic tone here) a 1-page description of the series fleshed out (an idea that they had for another vehicle/venue that they are going to reshape/retool into the new series...). [I'm working from various interviews that have been posted from the current PTB (and actors), but I don't have any links for anyone, sorry]

As far as being the guy that killed Stargate... I see it that way (that they killed Stargate), but I haven't seen any evidence that any higher-ups see it that way. Ten years is a long time for a TV series - and I think they see that as a mega-positive that outshines all else. And it seems like the last two years were a tack-on... unexpected... that many folks (in the cast and crew) were ready to move on, but couldn't walk away from the 'family' and/or the $$.... which leads me to wonder if many of them aren't a little relieved that they can now move on to other things? I, personally, wanted SG-1 to continue (with Carter in command, Daniel instead of Jackson, etc), but I don't think that many of the cast and crew wanted to continue making what we had in Seasons 1-8. Many of them have given me the feeling (in their interviews) that they wanted change.

So... I don't think that many of them feel that Stargate was killed. I think they feel that it went on much longer than they expected and that it's time to move on to something else.

Me? I'm still looking back longingly at the hopes and wishes that I had for the series before Season 9 started.

[Skydiver]

i think it all depends on just how much scifi was directing things.

we know that they were directing casting. scifi TOLD TPTB that vala just HAD to be back for the s9 finale. joe has said that he has to send the scripts to scifi to be 'approved/looked over/whatever term he uses'

so how much of what many of us deem as crap comes from bridge, how much comes from scifi?

If it comes from scifi and hte ratings system is horribly flawed and just won't show that frat house humor and cliches are really the lifesblood of scifi, then Stargate Universe is doomed. Cause it'll be another laughing stock like Andromeda. skiffy will use it, pimp it, then dump it unceremonously like they did scape and stargate.

If all these 'bad' story ideas came directly from bridge...well then scifi will be any future show's only outlet.

scifi loves this b-movie crap. but while they seem to constantly underestimate the intellignece of your average fan, the other networks don't as much. and they likely own't touch Universe with a ten foot pole

[suse]

In Prometheus, Vala came across as super competent, devious, clever, and extremely capable. She took out the entire crew without seemingly breaking a sweat. Her history as a former host had enormous story potential.

But instead of bringing her in with those super slick deadly/devious qualities, they went for the cheap laugh and made her Daniel's comedic foil. They took Catwoman and turned her into an insecure sex kitten without any claws. What a waste. In Prometheus, she had an element of danger about her. I didn't get that sense about her at all in seasons 9 and 10.

I found her quite dangerous. Even if it was only to my enjoyment of the show. Nice analogy Strix.

suse