S10: Critique & Contemplation

[astrogeologist]

Here's a new game:

Plots and ideas that could work wonderfully for Stargate SG-1, Season 9

1. Carter goes missing while on a mission and is subsequently missing for the first 5-6 episodes of Season 9. The plot arc for the first 5-6 episodes of Season 9 are strung together with the common thread of searching for Carter.

2. Carter is 'heroically wounded' on a mission that occurred between the end of Season 8 and the beginning of Season 9. After her injury heals, she comes back and resumes command of SG-1 in episode 6.




Plots and ideas that were horrible for Stargate SG-1, Season 9

1. Writing Carter out of command so that a New Guy could be both the 'Fresh, Eager, Newbie' at the same time as schizophrenically being the heroic, batte-proven new leader of Stargate's flagship team, SG-1.

[petemoretti]

So we're re-living the mistakes made with "Stargate Command"
My 2 cents worth
1. Jack - in "Threads" shippers were pretty much lured with "retiring and running SGC as a civilian" thing... How come Jack went from that to D.C. (more paperwork something he dreads and virtually no chance in going through the gate anymore). If they really didn't plan on even mentioning him anymore why not retire him so that he can be with Sam?
Furthermore Hammond stayed in command at the SGC for 7 years as a Major General and Jack only one. By that ludicrous command of HWS Jack who was Weir's subordinate in the end of S7, beginning of S8 is now above Weir?
2. Sam - Cassie - Oh please after 2 whole years Cassie suddenly needs a mom, How come Sam (if she really is her step-mom now that Janet is dead) didn't ask Jack what will become of her if she marries Pete in that infamous scene in "Affinity"? How come we didn't get a Cassie mention between Sam and Janet in "Ripple Effect" ? Why did Sam break up with Pete? Ok so maybe she wasn't ready to get married (I might offend some people but I can't really see our "national treasure", our little workaholic being a good mother and wife *runs from angry Samandans*), but that didn't mean she should have broken up with him (if she broke up with him and her relationship with Jack didn't materialise or as AT said a while ago they should remain friends after a one-nighter then I'll lose all the respect for her (Sam))
3. Cam - why go with the obvious hewo and not make him a shaddy character planted by a gullable Landry at the sugestion of N.I.D.-Trust. He comes with his own agenda, but after a few really difficult missions in which his inexperience puts him and the whole team in danger, the big 3 saving his butt, he starts trusting them and tries to distance himself from N.I.D.-Trust...
4. Landry - No daddy issues with Lam, make him really gullable or blackmailed by NID-Trust (something like Reverend Purdy in "Dead Zone")
5. Vala - Let her be a villain or at least shaddy character or better yet a Tok'ra or Quetesh
6. Ori-Ascended beings weren't needed (They're the equivalent of "Q-Continuum" of ST-TNG and even in the 25th century we weren't able to defeat them - the fact that we're going to beat them in "Ark of Truth" makes me wanna puke!!!) Instead make the ellusive Furlings the villain - A long time ago they were in the middle of a civil war, the villain side won and were driven by the Ancients out of our Galaxy. They return, they DON'T POSE AS GODS, They simply want us dead because we're the heirs of the Ancient legacy...
7. No Lam or at least no daddy issues...
8. Daniel - No Jackson please!!!

[Jackie]

My friend and I used it as a plot device in a story; Sam was at Area 51 to take part in the design and construction of a ship that she was to command, intended for intergalactic exploration.

When Daniel helpfully gave the Ori directions to our galaxy, Sam had to leave her project to return to the SGC but since she thought that she was only going to be back briefly, she didn't want to disrupt things by retaking command. By the time it became clear that this wasn't going to be a short-term thing, Mitchell had had command of SG-1 (in name, anyway) for several months and removing him from the job at that point would have looked awful on his record.

With the Ori on the way, Sam's ship dropped from the list of priorities in favour of more battleships.

I like the idea of Sam making a space ship. I will have to bouce that one around in my muse for a while till I either forget all about it or come up with a new Carter special.

going to sam missing....it could have worked. sam is missing, mitch wants to get the band back together, but daniel and teal'c just want to find sam. mitch, ex leader of sg something, volunteers to rein them in...and ends uphelping them, playing both sides against the middle.

while they're searching, they hear of a system lord that's popped up, so they go to check it out. daniel recognizes qetesh as vala, knows that she's faking it, she's outed to her followers, sg 3/4 has to rescue her and take her home. and just as they're about to toss her back through the gate, she pipes up...she just might know where carter is.

thus vala has a reason to hang around, mitch REALLY gets the band back together, sam could have been trapped on a planet and simply unable to get to the gate, thus she 'went native' and blended in to survive

and most of s9 plays out as it did....we'd just tone down or change that stupid as life 'marriage bracelets' bit adn lose a few more of the cliches

I think I would have opened the very first ep with Daniel laying in the infirmary wounded. Teal'c would be unconscious in the infirmary and Daniel would be telling what he remembered about the mission to Mitchell who is was brought in to investigate what went wrong. I would have made Mitchell an Air Force investigator and not a pilot. I would make him a heck of a lot smarter.

I would have Sam disappear into thin air before Daniel's eyes. Then a huge explosion followed and Daniel couldn't recall what happened after that. Daniel and Teal'c were found laying on the ground by a six foot creator.

Mitchell returns to the site with Dr. Lee in tow. He meets up with Bra'tac and they discusse the recent discovery. Dr. Lee figures out that this mystery device has transported Sam someplace but has no idea where.

Enter Vala who is looking for the same device that took Sam. She heard it was a doorway to unimaginable power and wealth. Vala, would be pretending to be Qutesh--she decided to go back to ruthless ruler after the PU fallout.

Mitchell knows she's not Quetesh, (this is where his phenomenal reading ablity comes in) He remembered the PU file and new vala was the host. He threatens to expose her before the followers.

Vala's first prime would know she's not really a Goa'uld and wants to protect Vala becuase he is in love with her. (Awe)...enter Tomin, first prime.

As Mitchell is playing detective and Vala is playing god, Daniel gets a visit from Jack who wants to know what happened to Carter. They discuss Jack's recent retirement and how Jack can't really do anything at the moment.

Ba'al has no got Anubis's empire as well as the mystery device. He finally activates it and finds himself in the ori galaxy.

Needless to say, Ba'al finds sam laying low with the locals. He knows the only way to get back is with Sam's help so Ba'al and sam discover the real power of the Ori.

Mitchell, figures out that Ba'al has device and Sam. Vala, Daniel and Teal'c manage to help get Sam back but lose track of ba'al.

Ba'al makes a deal with the Ori to convert all of the Milky Way if they let him rule the Milky Way in thier name. So now Ba'al is in league with the ori. he does thier bidding and takes a cut for himself.

Vala uses her disguise as a Gao'uld to try and infitrate Ba'al's new league and becomes a reluctant spy for us.

don't even need Adria now!

[Zoser]

A whole slew of great ideas from Sky, Jackie, Pete, et al but crapola from TPTB. Are they burnt out? Bored? Conscious?

[Jackie]

A whole slew of great ideas from Sky, Jackie, Pete, et al but crapola from TPTB. Are they burnt out? Bored? Conscious?

They made the mistake of making Stagare into a comedy...that's only funny to them.

[the dancer of spaz]

I think they really did believe that this version of Stargate was good. Really, I get the distinct impression that some of TPTB were trying to put their new, improved stamp all over the series, by only writing the dynamics they enjoyed.

Matters weren't helped by the fact that it's the same core group of people from practically the beginning... People are bound to just like each other's stuff, give it a pass and move on to the next thing without questioning things like an outsider would.

[astrogeologist]

I like the idea of Sam making a space ship. I will have to bouce that one around in my muse for a while till I either forget all about it or come up with a new Carter special.



I think I would have opened the very first ep with Daniel laying in the infirmary wounded. Teal'c would be unconscious in the infirmary and Daniel would be telling what he remembered about the mission to Mitchell who is was brought in to investigate what went wrong. I would have made Mitchell an Air Force investigator and not a pilot. I would make him a heck of a lot smarter.

I would have Sam disappear into thin air before Daniel's eyes. Then a huge explosion followed and Daniel couldn't recall what happened after that. Daniel and Teal'c were found laying on the ground by a six foot creator.

Mitchell returns to the site with Dr. Lee in tow. He meets up with Bra'tac and they discusse the recent discovery. Dr. Lee figures out that this mystery device has transported Sam someplace but has no idea where.

Enter Vala who is looking for the same device that took Sam. She heard it was a doorway to unimaginable power and wealth. Vala, would be pretending to be Qutesh--she decided to go back to ruthless ruler after the PU fallout.

Mitchell knows she's not Quetesh, (this is where his phenomenal reading ablity comes in) He remembered the PU file and new vala was the host. He threatens to expose her before the followers.

Vala's first prime would know she's not really a Goa'uld and wants to protect Vala becuase he is in love with her. (Awe)...enter Tomin, first prime.

As Mitchell is playing detective and Vala is playing god, Daniel gets a visit from Jack who wants to know what happened to Carter. They discuss Jack's recent retirement and how Jack can't really do anything at the moment.

Ba'al has no got Anubis's empire as well as the mystery device. He finally activates it and finds himself in the ori galaxy.

Needless to say, Ba'al finds sam laying low with the locals. He knows the only way to get back is with Sam's help so Ba'al and sam discover the real power of the Ori.

Mitchell, figures out that Ba'al has device and Sam. Vala, Daniel and Teal'c manage to help get Sam back but lose track of ba'al.

Ba'al makes a deal with the Ori to convert all of the Milky Way if they let him rule the Milky Way in thier name. So now Ba'al is in league with the ori. he does thier bidding and takes a cut for himself.

Vala uses her disguise as a Gao'uld to try and infitrate Ba'al's new league and becomes a reluctant spy for us.

don't even need Adria now!

Um..Wow! Just...wow! Fantastic ideas!

[Frostfox]

I think they really did believe that this version of Stargate was good. Really, I get the distinct impression that some of TPTB were trying to put their new, improved stamp all over the series, by only writing the dynamics they enjoyed.

Matters weren't helped by the fact that it's the same core group of people from practically the beginning... People are bound to just like each other's stuff, give it a pass and move on to the next thing without questioning things like an outsider would.

I think you have it nailed here.
It's not malice or even stupidity, it's complacency.

You don't only see it in Stargate.
One of my favourite comic book writers (and a personal friend) became so big, brought in the money so regularly, so reliably and for so long (we're talking at least two decades here) and his editor, good as she was, became a friend rather than his editor and it started to *show*. His book suffered because no one would say 'no' to him, he was the golden boy, the cash cow, he could write what he wanted.
And it made him a worse writer because no one would say 'that doesn't work' 'that doesn't make sense' 'that's out of character'. His work became stale and repetitive, the magic went away.

This is what I see with the Stargate TPTB, it's become too self congratulatory, a boys club, they need fresh blood, new viewpoints, new ideas and a critical eye overseeing them.

FF

[Arga]

...
all violence aside, seasons 1-8 was something that he [RDA] could show to his daughter. .

now I won't watch season 9-10 in the presence of my mother...!


After reading all the alternate (good) plots everybody had for the after-8 seasons, I kept thinking we should have done a petition, not to "save the show" but to demand an alternate couple of seasons!
That would be a premiere in the history of television, wouldn't it? Have the next season not be the continuation of the previous one, but an alternate version of the past season. (I'd add: with scenarios ideas picked up among fan suggestions!)

anyway I consider season 9 & 10 to be in fact taking place in an alternate universe, so re-doing completely the show would have been like taking us back to the same universe as season 1-8...

But of course that's just a fantazy, reserved for fan litterature..

[Jackie]

I think you have it nailed here.
It's not malice or even stupidity, it's complacency.

You don't only see it in Stargate.
One of my favourite comic book writers (and a personal friend) became so big, brought in the money so regularly, so reliably and for so long (we're talking at least two decades here) and his editor, good as she was, became a friend rather than his editor and it started to *show*. His book suffered because no one would say 'no' to him, he was the golden boy, the cash cow, he could write what he wanted.
And it made him a worse writer because no one would say 'that doesn't work' 'that doesn't make sense' 'that's out of character'. His work became stale and repetitive, the magic went away.

This is what I see with the Stargate TPTB, it's become too self congratulatory, a boys club, they need fresh blood, new viewpoints, new ideas and a critical eye overseeing them.

FF

I can see that happening. Same writers working on the series for 10 years and no now--no QC. (plus JM really does think the show is a comedy).

Cooper wanted his Stargate command, though. He was trying to pass off SGC as SG-1 and failed miserably to do so.

In SGC--Sam wasn't really supposed to be there-she was going to go to Atlantis. Mitchell was supoosed to be a Jack fill in type and Vala/Daniel were two big stars. teal'c really was wall paper and Dr. Lee was supposed to be Sam. *A dofus version of Sam* but very lovable.

It appears to me that SGA is now getting the rework and some of what they want to do is nothing more than an attempt to do what they failed to do with SG-1.

Yes, writing 40 eps instead of 20 would be much more difficult to do. But one would figure TPTB would have learned thier lesson about too much change too fast. SGA did need some fine tuning, but not a complete overhaul.

If he had done that under the title Stargate Command--the show would have been recieved better than the old switcher-ooooo.

[Mandysg1]

now I won't watch season 9-10 in the presence of my mother...!


After reading all the alternate (good) plots everybody had for the after-8 seasons, I kept thinking we should have done a petition, not to "save the show" but to demand an alternate couple of seasons!
That would be a premiere in the history of television, wouldn't it? Have the next season not be the continuation of the previous one, but an alternate version of the past season. (I'd add: with scenarios ideas picked up among fan suggestions!)

anyway I consider season 9 & 10 to be in fact taking place in an alternate universe, so re-doing completely the show would have been like taking us back to the same universe as season 1-8...

But of course that's just a fantazy, reserved for fan litterature..

Don't forget, SG1 has been known to travel to the past, they could always travel back to the end of S8 and change things for the better, like keeping Cam away from the SGC

[Rogue]

Don't forget, SG1 has been known to travel to the past, they could always travel back to the end of S8 and change things for the better, like keeping Cam away from the SGC

Yes, in the remake version, Mitchell tell Jack he wants to be a member of SG-1. Jack laughs and tell him "not in this timeline".

[ses110]

Very well said. You did not see these things happening with RDA and Gekko in charge. The Writers and directors had to answer for there work. There was no rubber stamping going on in the earlier days. TPTB answer to any problems is just change the cast. We must not have the right Actors.

[Jackie]

all tptb have to do is have the first team from the time ship in mobius suddenly show back up and find the current plot. Then, poof, Sam finds a way to break thier own rules and make the ship go through short time jumps and then they fix everything.

or, the team finds another quantum mirror and get lost on another demnsion where they have to save some other world that thier alternates screwed up.

my personal favorite:

or, Unending was just Thor's nighmare and he wakes up and finds the humans are like they were pre season 9.

or, ect......

[Arga]

Yes, in the remake version, Mitchell tell Jack he wants to be a member of SG-1. Jack laughs and tell him "not in this timeline".

thank you! you made me live a pure good old Jack moment in my head!