S10: Critique & Contemplation

[Jackie]

I've said that to people in the past when they ask me "can't you be positive?" I say "I can't be positive, I have to be realistic." It really seems to apply here. ITA.

They don't even ask me if I could be more positive. They ask me why I'm so miserable. Or just accuse me of hatred. They think I'm depressed. I could be---maybe that's what those little pills are for? The doc said they would make me feel better. Still waiting doc.

[Skydiver]

Intresting point with the genocide. Have they already committed Genocide by sending the weapon? Who is to say that all the Ori were guilty and not just a few head hanchos who ruled the roost.

By basically "poofing" the Bori they committed genicide because all the Ori are--dead. Life is life in any form.

they did. but they did it by a deniable way. IE poor daniel was influenced by merlin and the rest of sg1 was just along for the ride, so they didn't pull the trigger per se, ratehr were the hapless victims of someone else's manipulation...or that would be the excuse if they were called on it.

what they did with the replicators was genocide too. but apparantly it's ok when the dead are all 'evil' and there's no direct pulling of the trigger, just activating an old weapon

[Skydiver]

They don't even ask me if I could be more positive. They ask me why I'm so miserable. Or just accuse me of hatred. They think I'm depressed. I could be---maybe that's what those little pills are for? The doc said they would make me feel better. Still waiting doc.

you know to hate you'd have to care. and i don't care as much as i used to.

i'm gonna follow it thorugh to the bitter end, just out of a sheer sense of habit but...ok in s5 i was literally staying up all night do acquire and view the episodes from the uk. i was excited and anticipatory....right now????

i've seen 4 through the grace of the postal service and a kind friend, i'll see the rest eventually, but I DON'T CARE when i see them. the main reason is just so that i can stop avoiding spoilers. i want to see them to make things easier for me, not out of any real sense of anticipation or eagerness

that's how the show has changed. it went from something i anticipated watching to something i catch when i can.

good job boys

[iheartvala]

they did. but they did it by a deniable way. IE poor daniel was influenced by merlin and the rest of sg1 was just along for the ride, so they didn't pull the trigger per se, ratehr were the hapless victims of someone else's manipulation...or that would be the excuse if they were called on it.

what they did with the replicators was genocide too. but apparantly it's ok when the dead are all 'evil' and there's no direct pulling of the trigger, just activating an old weapon

wow are you seriously accusing SG-1 of genoicide? LOL that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. gonna leave this thread now and never come back.

get a grip geez.

[Skydiver]

genocide is the systematic killing of all the people from a national, ethnic, or religious group, or an attempt to do this

dominion/shroud spoilers i believe

Spoiler:

thus, sending merlin's weapon through the gate, the weapon that kills all the ori....genocide to me. They're definitely a religious group. They just didn't kill the HUMAN followers of the ori. they'll try to convert save them later

[Rogue]

I've said that to people in the past when they ask me "can't you be positive?" I say "I can't be positive, I have to be realistic." It really seems to apply here. ITA.

Thats the reason why I don't play on the S/J shipper thread anymore. I got tired of being accused of being a "glass half empty" poster.

[Jackie]

wow are you seriously accusing SG-1 of genoicide? LOL that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. gonna leave this thread now and never come back.

get a grip geez.

I think genoicde is an excellent post. Take a look at the situation. Sytemic killing of a life form. They basically dropped a nuke on the ascended. Wiped them all out in one shot. Can't call it warfare because--it's not.

genocide is the systematic killing of all the people from a national, ethnic, or religious group, or an attempt to do this

thus, sending merlin's weapon through the gate, the weapon that kills all the ori....genocide to me. They're definitely a religious group. They just didn't kill the HUMAN followers of the ori. they'll try to convert save them later

I agree and I think you brought up an excellent point. They also wiped out the replicators too. So, if the replicators are recognized as a life form then they would be guiltly of that. Of course the replicators were out for to concur eveything but hey--you never know. they could have had some good ones in there.

[AGateFan]

I think genoicde is an excellent post. Take a look at the situation. Sytemic killing of a life form. They basically dropped a nuke on the ascended. Wiped them all out in one shot. Can't call it warfare because--it's not.



I agree and I think you brought up an excellent point. They also wiped out the replicators too. So, if the replicators are recognized as a life form then they would be guiltily of that. Of course the replicators were out for to concur everything but hey--you never know. they could have had some good ones in there.

See I don’t consider the replicators "life forms" they were machines running on their programming. The programming just is such that they wipe out all life. Replicators don’t really have a choice, they are what they are so I don’t have a problem with turning off all those machines.

I would have a little more problem with the Wraith or the Ori because they are living beings with free choice. It is possible that some chose differently then the others much like the Tokra chose differently then the Goa'uld. But SG-1 didn’t bother to even try to investigate this with the Ori. A good sign last SGA season was that it seems that despite the somewhat sketchy morality of SG-A past they seem to have tried to recognize their lack of morality and mistakes. Probably wont follow up on it with the new show runner but at least they tried.

(Actually though, I am plenty happy they committed genocide on the Ori, now if they could just take out a couple of other "much loved" characters and put the show back to what made it great I could be happy. But actually only an actual "WELL DONE" time travel ep could do that and TPTB have no intention of doing it. They seem happy to have destroyed the show for millions of fans. Whatever as long as they think is fun its not like they get paid per viewer interest.....oh wait).

EDIT: I vacillate between apathy and anger. I don’t know why I care after two years of crp. Maybe its days like yesterday when they show the good old eps that kicks me out of apathy. Maybe its conversations at work. I need to get back to apathy.

[AGateFan]

How badly written were the Ori as a species if you can setup the prospect that your "heroes" killed every single one of them without questioning the ethics?

No due process, no trial, no proof that everyone they killed were evil or even agreed with what the others said. They just killed the entire lot of them. Like if Americans decided the war with Muslim terrorist wasn’t going to be won so nuked the entire region or terrorist deciding they weren’t going to defeat America and thus nuked it.

How odd. We nuked two cities in Japan and the repercussions are felt till this day. We destroy an entire species and someone scoffs at it being genocide. How apathetic the writers have made the viewing audience. How dead the ori must have already seemed. No horror in the idea, just cheers. But then what do you expect from a group that thinks slavery and rape are FUN traits for people. I can’t believe these are the same people that wrote the same Stargate that I so loved.

[LaCroix]

Originally Posted by AGateFan
EDIT: I vacilate between apathy and anger. I dont know why I care after two years of crp. Maybe its days like yesterday when they show the good old eps that kicks me out of apathy. Maybe its conversations at work. I need to get back to apathy, seems to work for TPTB...

Didn't get the memo huh.

We're supposed to sit and watch the past two years, while they read to us from their bible, their canon as it stands. Forget what was, new is better.

[Jackie]

How badly written were the Ori as a species if you can setup the prospect that your "heroes" killed every single one of them without questioning the ethics?

No due process, no trial, no proof that everyone they killed were evil or even agreed with what the others said. They just killed the entire lot of them. Like if Americans decided the war with Muslim terrorist wasn’t going to be won so nuked the entire region or terrorist deciding they weren’t going to defeat America and thus nuked it.

How odd. We nuked two cities in Japan and the repercussions are felt till this day. We destroy an entire species and someone scoffs at it being genocide. How apathetic the writers have made the viewing audience. How dead the ori must have already seemed. No horror in the idea, just cheers. But then what do you expect from a group that thinks slavery and rape are FUN traits for people. I can’t believe these are the same people that wrote the same Stargate that I so loved.

Yep, kill em all and let--which ever god is god--sort them out...LOL. Not really.

The Ori were pretty much doom from conception because of there lack of interaction with the starring team. They do seem dead to begin with--I must agree.

The two bombs were not felt enough. I think people don't realize what nukes are really able to do. Between US and Russia there is enough nuclear weapons to deystroy the Earth 8 time over. Yet, in the series we just shoot these weapons off at wriath and enemy ships like little birthday candles.

They seem numb to the true horror we live with everyday.

I watched a survivors account of Hiroshima on the history channel. She was a nurse working in a hospital at ground zero when the bomb went off. She said the sky turned black and it baked people because the air was so hot. They went down to the river but the river was full of bodies from people who went there to cool off and drowned. Can you imagine being in an city that has just been incinerated? The temputure of a nuclear blast is over 1 millions degrees. It would truely be a living h*ll.

My great uncle was in Hiroshima 2 weeks after the bomb was dropped and as I child, I saw pictures he took of shadows of people who were incinerated into the brick walls. I can't find the pictures now--but to this day I remember them. It impacted me that much.

We forget about that bomb but we don't seem to forget the Kamakzi pilots. Those pilots were in a society where failure was the worst thing you could do. if you were a Japanese and you were captured. Your family was told you were dead. The message--don't bother coming home.

The show went from a drama that lifted your spirits. Jack would never leave anyone behind. They held standards as a whole and the use of nuclear weapons was looked upon as a last resort.

But now, it's just another tool to blow things up with.

[Zoser]

How badly written were the Ori as a species if you can setup the prospect that your "heroes" killed every single one of them without questioning the ethics?

No due process, no trial, no proof that everyone they killed were evil or even agreed with what the others said. They just killed the entire lot of them. Like if Americans decided the war with Muslim terrorist wasn’t going to be won so nuked the entire region or terrorist deciding they weren’t going to defeat America and thus nuked it.

How odd. We nuked two cities in Japan and the repercussions are felt till this day. We destroy an entire species and someone scoffs at it being genocide. How apathetic the writers have made the viewing audience. How dead the ori must have already seemed. No horror in the idea, just cheers. But then what do you expect from a group that thinks slavery and rape are FUN traits for people. I can’t believe these are the same people that wrote the same Stargate that I so loved.

This is what mystifies me too. Some of the stuff they wrote is so damned good (I just about wear out my DVDs) and then this sloppy stuff as if they no longer cared.
I still think of that look between Carter and O'Neill as he ordered the gate closed on Alar (The Other Side) a despicable character. There was an acknowledgment of the death of a fellow human. They offered comfort to Apophis' host as he lay dying. Perhaps it is easier to exact cruelty on a faceless hoard.

[Zoser]

Yep, kill em all and let--which ever god is god--sort them out...LOL. Not really.

The Ori were pretty much doom from conception because of there lack of interaction with the starring team. They do seem dead to begin with--I must agree.

The two bombs were not felt enough. I think people don't realize what nukes are really able to do. Between US and Russia there is enough nuclear weapons to deystroy the Earth 8 time over. Yet, in the series we just shoot these weapons off at wriath and enemy ships like little birthday candles.

They seem numb to the true horror we live with everyday.

I watched a survivors account of Hiroshima on the history channel. She was a nurse working in a hospital at ground zero when the bomb went off. She said the sky turned black and it baked people because the air was so hot. They went down to the river but the river was full of bodies from people who went there to cool off and drowned. Can you imagine being in an city that has just been incinerated? The temputure of a nuclear blast is over 1 millions degrees. It would truely be a living h*ll.

My great uncle was in Hiroshima 2 weeks after the bomb was dropped and as I child, I saw pictures he took of shadows of people who were incinerated into the brick walls. I can't find the pictures now--but to this day I remember them. It impacted me that much.

We forget about that bomb but we don't seem to forget the Kamakzi pilots. Those pilots were in a society where failure was the worst thing you could do. if you were a Japanese and you were captured. Your family was told you were dead. The message--don't bother coming home.

The show went from a drama that lifted your spirits. Jack would never leave anyone behind. They held standards as a whole and the use of nuclear weapons was looked upon as a last resort.

But now, it's just another tool to blow things up with.

Remember Jack's words to the leaders of Jonas' planet about weapons of mass destruction that they would use they at least once and against the people of their own world.

[jckfan55]

genocide is the systematic killing of all the people from a national, ethnic, or religious group, or an attempt to do this

shroud/dominions spoilers

Spoiler:

thus, sending merlin's weapon through the gate, the weapon that kills all the ori....genocide to me. They're definitely a religious group. They just didn't kill the HUMAN followers of the ori. they'll try to convert save them later

spoilers?

[Skydiver]

[/spoiler]
spoilers?

my bad. there were other posts on the topic and i got carried away. sorry.