S10: Critique & Contemplation

[Jackie]

I guess you could use the metaphor:

SG-1 was a long time favorite restaurant...say pizza hut. One day the owners retired and kids got the business. The kids decided to make it into a Mexican restaurant--like taco bell--but kept the same name, Pizza Hut.

I don't want a taco--I want the big round pizza. It's just not the same!

[RealmOfX]

I really should stick to the food part of his blog and ignore the rest but the latest from JM :

"Anonymous writes: “What do you and the other writers attribute the increased fan speculation that you guys were shooting for a younger demographic with less nuanced or adult handling of stories?”

Answer: In general, there are as many supporters of certain stories as there are detractors. Of course, there are episodes that are almost universally loved by the fans, as there are episodes that are almost universally panned. To be honest, I don’t see any discernible difference in the quality of the writing over the seasons. On the other hand, I definitely have seen a proliferation in online fandom over the years. Make of that what you will.

Anonymous also writes: “Do you feel there is a larger gap between what the writers are producing and what the fans want to see than there has been in the past? Could this perhaps partially account for the declining viewership?”

Answer: No. We haven’t been doing anything radically different. As for the reason for our decline in viewership, there are plenty of possible reasons: a lack of promotion, a shift away from the goa’uld storylines, little in the way of promotion, a shift toward the more ethereal Ancient/Ori storyline, a dearth in promotion, the introduction of new characters, promotion or lack thereof. Whose to say with any degree of certainty?"

The man seriously needs a few lessons in objective reviewing!! I'm surprised he left out blaming magnets

They totally change the show and start ignoring their own canon; go from luck and ingenious solutions to resolve problems to finding the next big thing on a treasure hunt; put an inexperienced goof ball in charge and he thinks "No. We haven’t been doing anything radically different."

Sheesh!! I think I just swung back to pessimism with regard to S4 of Atlantis seeing as he is one of the new showrunners. I sure hope the other half of the partnership can provide some balance otherwise the Stargate franchise is doomed!!

[Skydiver]

Answer: No. We haven’t been doing anything radically different. As for the reason for our decline in viewership, there are plenty of possible reasons: a lack of promotion, a shift away from the goa’uld storylines, little in the way of promotion, a shift toward the more ethereal Ancient/Ori storyline, a dearth in promotion, the introduction of new characters, promotion or lack thereof. Whose to say with any degree of certainty?"

that pretty much tells me that anything these boys do is doomed to failure. Denial is more than a river in egypt, it runs right through bridge studios.

they cannot/will not accept that THEY ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE MAJORITY OF THESE CHANGES. Thus, if the altering storyline is responsible for the shift in ratings, dude, you made the storyline alter thus you shifted the ratings.

And blaming promotion???? The show had little to no promotion for 5 years and it did just fine. Stop blaming everyone else and start looking in the mirror...that is if you can see yourself behind the comic book you're reading


Notice how, when they make eps like line in the sand or the road not taken the response is different from when they do stuff like bounty or bad guys????

the former is a shadow of what SG1 used to be, the latter, some spoofy space fantasy ala Wormhole Extreme.

If they wanted to make a goofball space fantasy and spoof, have the cajones to step out from under the 'sg1' name and let it stand on its own merits. Stop trying to pass off fanficesque farce as 'good drama' adn then stand there scratching your head and blaming Fred the Caterer when folks raise thier eyebrows at the bait and switch and say 'umm, this isn't what i ordered'

And if they don't have the backbone to start their new farce show, well then how about remaining true to the name of the series that's lined their pockets for the better part of a decade and go back to making what they're getting paid to make

[Jackie]

I really should stick to the food part of his blog and ignore the rest but the latest from JM :

"Anonymous writes: “What do you and the other writers attribute the increased fan speculation that you guys were shooting for a younger demographic with less nuanced or adult handling of stories?”

Answer: In general, there are as many supporters of certain stories as there are detractors. Of course, there are episodes that are almost universally loved by the fans, as there are episodes that are almost universally panned. To be honest, I don’t see any discernible difference in the quality of the writing over the seasons. On the other hand, I definitely have seen a proliferation in online fandom over the years. Make of that what you will.

Anonymous also writes: “Do you feel there is a larger gap between what the writers are producing and what the fans want to see than there has been in the past? Could this perhaps partially account for the declining viewership?”

Answer: No. We haven’t been doing anything radically different. As for the reason for our decline in viewership, there are plenty of possible reasons: a lack of promotion, a shift away from the goa’uld storylines, little in the way of promotion, a shift toward the more ethereal Ancient/Ori storyline, a dearth in promotion, the introduction of new characters, promotion or lack thereof. Whose to say with any degree of certainty?"

The man seriously needs a few lessons in objective reviewing!! I'm surprised he left out blaming magnets

They totally change the show and start ignoring their own canon; go from luck and ingenious solutions to resolve problems to finding the next big thing on a treasure hunt; put an inexperienced goof ball in charge and he thinks "No. We haven’t been doing anything radically different."

Sheesh!! I think I just swung back to pessimism with regard to S4 of Atlantis seeing as he is one of the new showrunners. I sure hope the other half of the partnership can provide some balance otherwise the Stargate franchise is doomed!!

Translation:

You wanted a large cheese pizza? But the tacos taste greate. Everybody loves tacos. People have stopped coming to my restaurant because Dad didn't advertise this year. It's his fault no one knew that Pizza Hut has changed to Taco Bell.

[MediaSavant]

\But, what they should realize, they're like a restaurant. they produce 'goods' that we consume. Now, say they're great fans of Onions. and they put onions in everything. mashed potatoes, corn, green beans,...cake

well good for htem. they're making something that they like.

but anyone that doesn't share their taste in onions, they're gonna find their customer base getting slimmer and slimmer and slimmer.

It's great to make things that you like. But, if you want to be a success, you need to find a balance between making things that you like along with things that a majority of your customers like

The broader your appeal, the greater your success

I know what you are getting at, but it's not necessarily how the restaurant business works in my small city. The good restaurants aren't trying to have the broadest appeal. The good restaurants specialize in being good at one theme--seafood, thai, japanese, pasta, Italian, Indian, Chinese, BBQ.

Trying to appeal to everybody is the recipe for blandness, which is what the show has been for most of its existence. I know those are the restaurants I go to the least often. They are the Denny's of the world. Sure, Denny's is hugely "successful", but is that the kind of success we are talking about? Quantity over quantity.

Their key problem isn't what they are putting on the menu, it's that they just aren't good chefs. Menu-wise, they've always been a little too broad to be considered a great restaurant/TV show. And they still are.

BSG is an example of a TV show that is doing what you describe. What they serve is very focussed, but also very well prepared. It's not for everybody, though. It may not last ten years like a bland restaurant/TV show might, but it will be remembered as doing what it does very, very well.

[AGateFan]

A) So approx 30% of your "fans" dont bother to watch your show which is on the same night and the same ORIGINAL time due to lack of promotion.

B) The drop off started in the second half of S9 a season in which no one blamed lack of promotion just a bad timeslot (same time slot as S8 and beginning of S9 BTW).

C) I have seen more promotion for S10 then S1-S7. Oh wait in fact I NEVER saw prmotion for S1-S5. Promotion for S6 was weak new show promotion. Promotion for S7 seemed relegated to the behind the gate. S8 was all about Atlantis advertisment. S10 I have seen multiple TV guides writeups. Writups in other magazines. Numerous commericals and even a plug on a local radio show whom I wouldnt have even expected to know what Stargate is. S8 was the highest rated season ever and was riding a wave into S9. A wave which quickly died when it hit the cliffs of the bad bad bad BAD writing. And Joe, if you dont realize theres a difference maybe you should actually go back and try watching some of the old seasons.

Much like how YOU "pan" other TV shows like OZ your show has taken a turn and been eaten by the shark.

Also love how good shows are "LOVED" and bad shows are "panned". How about good are "praised" and bad shows are "panned". Or good shows are "loved" and the bad shows are "hated". Your a writer so you know the power of minimizing peoples feelings by choosing the right words. Bad episodes, bad series = low ratings.

[AGateFan]

I know what you are getting at, but it's not necessarily how the restaurant business works in my small city. The good restaurants aren't trying to have the broadest appeal. The good restaurants specialize in being good at one theme--seafood, thai, japanese, pasta, Italian, Indian, Chinese, BBQ.

Trying to appeal to everybody is the recipe for blandness, which is what the show has been for most of its existence. I know those are the restaurants I go to the least often. They are the Denny's of the world. Sure, Denny's is hugely "successful", but is that the kind of success we are talking about? Quantity over quantity.

Their key problem isn't what they are putting on the menu, it's that they just aren't good chefs. Menu-wise, they've always been a little too broad to be considered a great restaurant/TV show. And they still are.

BSG is an example of a TV show that is doing what you describe. What they serve is very focussed, but also very well prepared. It's not for everybody, though. It may not last ten years like a bland restaurant/TV show might, but it will be remembered as doing what it does very, very well.

You may not have liked Classic Stargate but lots of people did and that is what kept it on the air for 8 years and what will leave it in the hearts of its fans.

Trying to make the show more to this supposed specialized tastes like that BSG crap is exactly what killed this show.

[Jackie]

Also let's not forget...the first five seasons SG-1 was on showtime, 10pm slot of friday night.

They had no advertising at all, higher rating on a paid channel that many people don't carry. And above all--no commercials and no skiffy!

Joe did write some really good episodes earlier on in the series. I wonder is "poor Joe" is just burned out and doesn't want to admit it?

[Skydiver]

I know what you are getting at, but it's not necessarily how the restaurant business works in my small city. The good restaurants aren't trying to have the broadest appeal. The good restaurants specialize in being good at one theme--seafood, thai, japanese, pasta, Italian, Indian, Chinese, BBQ.

and that is a point. However, you don't head into the heart of rural beef country and buy out the local steak house and replace it with a sushi bar, then wonder why no one eats there anymore and say if you'd have just run more commercials, everyone would flock to it and love sushi

[Skydiver]

A)
C) I have seen more promotion for S10 then S1-S7.

oh yeah, tv guide covers, magazine write ups, the works

but the problem????

the more publicity it got, the more reviews it got and more it was made public that peopel didn't like what they were making

promotion is a double edged sword, and promoting something 'bad' only draws attention to its badness and turns off any 'mmmhm, ok, i'm bored, wonder what this show is' people

season 9 and 10 were promoted out the wazoo....and a good chunk of that promotion fell flat just as a good chunk of the reviews for the 'new and improved' show called it a flop

[Jackie]

I recall the first few episode of season 9 did well ratings but it declined shaprly by the fith episode.

I think the steady decline in ratings should have shown TPTB that the Vaniel combo was not going to work.

By the end of season 9--I realized that Vaniel was becoming a fixture and I read all the spin by MS saying that Vala will be TONED DOWN, I wondered if the writers had a clue as to what the fans wanted.

Six bad episodes is all it really took the kill the series for many long time fans. I was very disappionted in the direction of the show then. I stuck with it hoping it would get better. From the synopsis that I have read about the show and how it has been re-labled and comedy. I don't hold out much for the moives or the tired series.

I see many European posters are saying the rest of season 10 is wonderful. But I don't see many long time fans saying that. I know the show was in the US before the Europe.

I wonder if there will be a stark contrast in what Euorpeans like vs. was Americans like. I wouldn't be surpirsed if there is a huge gape between the two. Europe has always had a differnt sense of humor than the US. If the show is playing on humor alone, then I would expect the US not to embrace the humor as much as Europe has.

[dipsofjazz]

I see many European posters are saying the rest of season 10 is wonderful. But I don't see many long time fans saying that. I know the show was in the US before the Europe.

If you're just talking about the comments from the episode threads, then I don't think that's much of a guide on how the show is perceived. Many people, like myself, never post there....even if I had something good to say about the episode.
The show may have begun airing in the US before anywhere else, but since it's been going for ten years it has a large following throughout the world. Unfortunately, many countries aren't up-to-date with the seasons, with some not airing the show any more. I think this may be why dvd sales are large. Of course, nowadays, downloading the episodes is very easy, so anyone in the world can keep up with the show.

I wonder if there will be a stark contrast in what Euorpeans like vs. was Americans like. I wouldn't be surpirsed if there is a huge gape between the two. Europe has always had a differnt sense of humor than the US. If the show is playing on humor alone, then I would expect the US not to embrace the humor as much as Europe has.

You may be right with the different sense of humour aspect. TPTB know that the show does very well overseas, therefore it would be rather stupid of them to stick to a certain kind of humour. I must admit that some of the jokes in the 'classic SG' fell flat for me because I didn't understand the American words/sayings etc. but I certainly can't stand the puerile 'frat-boy' humour of the new, improved SG.

[Jackie]

Oh, a lemming from Scotland. Cool!

"Frat-boy" humor is aimed at teenage boys. can't stand it!

[Skydiver]

i have no tolerance for it. In fact, i find most slap stick and frat boy humor to be painful to watch adn quite nauseating.

ameican pie, the stooges, lucille ball, i dont' watch them becase (in american pie) it's disgusting, in the stooges and ball, i don't enjoy watching someone make an ass out of themselves just to get a laugh.

however, benny hill, are you being served and other shows, they're funny as heck. and it's smart adn intelligent humor. stargate used to do that. now they've just fallen to sex jokes adn i'm waiting for the day when one of the men gets racked for a giggle

[Frostfox]

i have no tolerance for it. In fact, i find most slap stick and frat boy humor to be painful to watch adn quite nauseating.

ameican pie, the stooges, lucille ball, i dont' watch them becase (in american pie) it's disgusting, in the stooges and ball, i don't enjoy watching someone make an ass out of themselves just to get a laugh.

however, benny hill, are you being served and other shows, they're funny as heck. and it's smart adn intelligent humor. stargate used to do that. now they've just fallen to sex jokes adn i'm waiting for the day when one of the men gets racked for a giggle

While I agree with you on the sorry state of the humour in current SG1, I can't really see Benny Hill or Are You Being Served as intelligent or smart humour.
They are still gentle slapstick and broad 1970's innuendo, lacking the subtlety of something like Faulty Towers or Blackadder, both of which could be daft at times but were much less likely to be playing on cheap giggles and sad homosexual sterotypes and 'pussy' jokes. That being said, Benny Hill and Are You Being Served are very much of their period and British humour has moved on a lot since then. Though watching Little Britain, I sometimes wonder how far we have gone.
To me, smart humour is more the likes of ISIHAC or QI or Just a Minute and The News Quiz, all of which are terribly funny and have fabulous luminaries such as Stephen Fry, Humph, Barry Cryer, Willy Rushton etc.
Hm, all those, with the honourable exception of QI, are Radio 4 programmes, which possibly tells you something about current TV comedy in general (or my tastes in particular).
For the curious, ISIHAC (I'm Sorry, I Haven't A Clue) web page http://www.g0akh.f2s.com/isihac/default.php
hm, reading the jokes, most of them come over as very inane and flat, just trust me, they are funny. Including the picture of the lovely Samantha, though Sven is my favourite, and not to mention Mornington Crescent.
QI web page. http://www.qi.com/
Go on, expand your humour horizons.

FF