S10: Critique & Contemplation

[Frostfox]

most actors like their character to be used heavily. that doesn't seem to be what MS is saying.

In your opinion.

he likes Vaniel, and (perhaps in part because) he likes that it makes his character more like him and less like the character he's played for so long. (if i'm wrong about this, please point it out.)

I have no idea if MS is more like Daniel when he's with Vala than when he's not, I don't know MS.

that, IMO, isn't what an actor should think. actors should fight for what's best for they're character (as long as they don't say, loose they're pay/job, etc). if AT thought like MS, i'd draw the same conclusion. but she doesn't.

In your opinion, I don't know AT either.

she likes Sam eps, but well-rounded ones (especially [all] character focused). she also wants Sam to Sam, and she's fought for that before. if MS did so, i'd respect him just as much.

Do you have any facts to back up that assumption that MS only likes Vala/Daniel action to make his character more like him? Or that AT only has altruistic motives and wants Sam episodes to focus on all the other characters too? Because that is what you are saying.

as for forum rules, i find what i say about him to be no worse--in fact, much better--than what many people say about TPTB constantly.

Those other people are also breaking the forum rules.
To quote: Respect Stargate actors and production crew members.

FF

[jckfan55]

I wasn't espousing that opinion (the more Sam episodes the better)
I was pointing out the double standards.
MS says he wants more Daniel, he's lampooned. There are places on the web where I won't go because of the actor/character bashing. I don't like to think of Gateworld in those terms.

FF Who's fairly sure there is something in the forum rules about respecting the actors, all of them, not just the ones you like.

I agree that all actors are going to like it when they get interesting things to do and perhaps a lot of screen time.

I think the reaction to MS' comments, while perhaps a bit unfair, came from the fact that he had loads of screen/story time, seemingly to the exclusion of the rest of the team for a lot of season 9. As Skydiver points out, for a while now, episodes have been all about one character (or sometimes about Daniel/Vala) for quite a while now. They used to do a better job of balancing things so that even a Daniel, Jack, Sam or Teal'c episode gave the other 3 stuff to do. Or they were about the *team* solving a problem with each contributing his/her expertise. I've been finding season 10 a bit more balanced actually, though I've only seen the first 1/2. So for MS, it must seem that he's losing out. Those of us who want to see more of Sam and Teal'c making important contributions to episodes aren't going to be heartbroken.

[AGateFan]

I guess I should state (since it appears not to be clear) that I love the Daniel character. I dont like JACKSON. He is just another bad new character introduced into the Stargate universe in S9-S10.

So to be clear actors are actors because they love attention and can apparently make money by being actors.

I love classic Stargate SG-1 and the TEAM over any one character.

I am anti the bizzaro Stargate SG-1 that currently exist with badly written new characters and old characters written out of character.

Thus I love Daniel also know as Daniel Jackson in Classic Stargate but I cannot stand this JACKSON guy from th bizzaro universe.

Also, I dont watch TV shows for actors I watch for characters. Just like when I was watching football the other day. I was watching some of the support personel on the sideline and I thought "that would be a cool job, you get to watch all the games and meet all the players" and then I thought ..."wait I dont want to meet any of those players as there is a good chance I wouldnt actually like any of them. I like the way they PLAY but it doesnt mean I would like them as persons or want to hang out with them". Same with actors. I like the Characters on classic SG-1. I dont know if I would like the actors in person and I dont know that I would like them in other shows. I do know that I dont like them when they play alternate characters on this show.... well thats not true as I did like geeky Daniel and geeky Sam in Mobieus. Too bad that ep gave TPTB an excuse to mess up the rest of the show.... or maybe its good that it gave me an "out" for why the show is messed up.

One thing is clear to me.... the show is messed up.

[Frostfox]

I think the reaction to MS' comments, while perhaps a bit unfair, came from the fact that he had loads of screen/story time, seemingly to the exclusion of the rest of the team for a lot of season 9.

Again, I agree.
But as Rogue pointed out, that was down to the writers and directors, TPTB, not MS.

FF

[jckfan55]

I guess I should state (since it appears not to be clear) that I love the Daniel character. I dont like JACKSON. He is just another bad new character introduced into the Stargate universe in S9-S10.

So to be clear actors are actors because they love attention and can apparently make money by being actors.

I love classic Stargate SG-1 and the TEAM over any one character.

I am anti the bizzaro Stargate SG-1 that currently exist with badly written new characters and old characters written out of character.

Thus I love Daniel also know as Daniel Jackson in Classic Stargate but I cannot stand this JACKSON guy from th bizzaro universe.

I love the way you put this AGateFan. That's just the way I feel about how Daniel has been. Now if they had said something happened to him when he descended the 2nd time or addressed the personality change I still wouldn't have necessarily liked it, but they could have written stories dealing with it. I've always liked Daniel. i just don't like the way he is with Vala. And while we're talking about other character interactions, I miss the Sam/Daniel friendship we used to see--those moments have been few and far between in S9 & 10. I'd also like to see more Daniel/Teal'c interactions.

[Hubble]

I guess I should state (since it appears not to be clear) that I love the Daniel character. I dont like JACKSON. He is just another bad new character introduced into the Stargate universe in S9-S10.

So to be clear actors are actors because they love attention and can apparently make money by being actors.

I love classic Stargate SG-1 and the TEAM over any one character.

I am anti the bizzaro Stargate SG-1 that currently exist with badly written new characters and old characters written out of character.

Thus I love Daniel also know as Daniel Jackson in Classic Stargate but I cannot stand this JACKSON guy from th bizzaro universe.

Also, I dont watch TV shows for actors I watch for characters. Just like when I was watching football the other day. I was watching some of the support personel on the sideline and I thought "that would be a cool job, you get to watch all the games and meet all the players" and then I thought ..."wait I dont want to meet any of those players as there is a good chance I wouldnt actually like any of them. I like the way they PLAY but it doesnt mean I would like them as persons or want to hang out with them". Same with actors. I like the Characters on classic SG-1. I dont know if I would like the actors in person and I dont know that I would like them in other shows. I do know that I dont like them when they play alternate characters on this show.... well thats not true as I did like geeky Daniel and geeky Sam in Mobieus. Too bad that ep gave TPTB an excuse to mess up the rest of the show.... or maybe its good that it gave me an "out" for why the show is messed up.

One thing is clear to me.... the show is messed up.

I don't like Jackson either, but love Daniel. Very well put, indeed.
(Tried to green you, but wasn't allowed.)

[jckfan55]

Again, I agree.
But as Rogue pointed out, that was down to the writers and directors, TPTB, not MS.

FF

True--and I don't blame him for the direction of the show.

[ParadoxRealities]

In your opinion.

of this i am fully aware. i wouldn't have said it if i didn't think it.

I have no idea if MS is more like Daniel when he's with Vala than when he's not, I don't know MS.

i don't know either, but i thought that's what he said. whether he's right or not is subjective, i'm talking about the fact that he said it. i found the post afterwards.

In your opinion, I don't know AT either.

you may breathe easy, i know exactly where my opinion lies. no where have i ever read anything in which AT says anything of this sort. in fact quite the opposite, she wants Sam to act like Sam, no matter what. i think she even said she's become more like Sam, specifically made her less clumsy, i think.

Do you have any facts to back up that assumption that MS only likes Vala/Daniel action to make his character more like him?

i never said "only". in fact, i said "and" and "perhaps in part because". the connection is actually rather irrelevant to the supposed double standard.

Or that AT only has altruistic motives and wants Sam episodes to focus on all the other characters too? Because that is what you are saying.

besides her saying so in various interviews, her actions, the eps she enjoys, and the fact that she's never pushed Sam eps the way MS pushes Vaniel. but if you're going to make this an all-out war, i'll step aside and let a more avid reader/bookmarker take the lead if one so chooses. you're the one who accused a double standard, not me. you want to mess around with burden of proof, then you deal with the status quo. i'm not here to get in a fight and dig through news archives.

Those other people are also breaking the forum rules.
To quote: Respect Stargate actors and production crew members.

in your opinion. it's the mods' opinion that matters, and i have yet to see such posts censored. in fact, they've written some, and the general forum public doesn't hold it against them or anyone else. sky can mod me whenever the heck she wants. i think i can handle it.

just a note: i don't blame MS for the fact that there is so much Vaniel (a relative term which i choose to define as the amount in the past seasons). that's TPTB's botched juggling act, not MS's. i also consider Vaniel to be a misnomer. Vackson [not my word] is the correct term (again, a word i choose to define as exactly the relationship we see on screen).

[Frostfox]

but if you're going to make this an all-out war, i'll step aside and let a more avid reader/bookmarker take the lead if one so chooses. you're the one who accused a double standard, not me. you want to mess around with burden of proof, then you deal with the status quo. i'm not here to get in a fight and dig through news archives.

I'm not here to start a war. I am here to point out that -

Gee you mean MS likes it when he is the near sole focus of the show with the only other character getting time being the female character whose sole purpose is to play off his character, pinning for him all the time while his character gets to be really rude back to her (and thus proving his characters manliness I guess). Gee who would have thunk it.

is disrespectful.

If someone posted -

Gee you mean AT likes it when she is the near sole focus of the show with the only other character getting time being the male character whose sole purpose is to play off his character, pinning for her all the time while her character gets to be really rude back to him (and thus proving her characters femininity I guess). Gee who would have thunk it.

Would I find that acceptable either? No. Would you? No.

FF

[ParadoxRealities]

I'm not here to start a war. I am here to point out that -

is disrespectful.

ok. then maybe you should take it up with GateFan. who may or may not have been totally serious.

Gee you mean MS likes it when he is the near sole focus of the show with the only other character getting time being the female character whose sole purpose is to play off his character, pinning for him all the time while his character gets to be really rude back to her (and thus proving his characters manliness I guess). Gee who would have thunk it.

oh btw thats JACKSON to you.
Daniel is such a whimpy name.

[Frostfox]

ok. then maybe you should take it up with GateFan. who may or may not have been totally serious.

I appologise for the mis-attribution, I will amend the post.

But my point still stands, is it any more acceptable to say that about MS than AT (or RDA or CJ or any of the cast)?

FF

[ParadoxRealities]

I appologise for the mis-attribution, I will amend the post.

But my point still stands, is it any more acceptable to say that about MS than AT (or RDA or CJ or any of the cast)?

FF

no problem. as for your point, i think it borders on disrespect. my opinion's not the one that matters though, neither is yours. besides, i know AGF well enough to offer the benefit of the doubt. i'm not sure what the point was, but have no doubt that it was a good one (if perhaps/probably snarky) so i'll reserve judgement until/if AGF decides to speak on it. and if it turns out that i do find it disrespectful, well, screw me and better luck next time. if you're looking for an explination, take it up with AGF. if you're looking for action, take it up with Sky/another mod. if you're looking for someone to say MS/anyone doesn't deserve a double standard, i'll say it.

[AGateFan]

I'm not here to start a war. I am here to point out that -

is disrespectful.

If someone posted -


Would I find that acceptable either? No. Would you? No.

FF

I dont find my statement disrespectful, neither would I find your statement about AT disrespectful. I stated my opinion on the matter and my opinion is an actor is likely to like eps where they are featured more. An opinion you seem to agree with as long as it is worded to your satisfaction.

Of course at this point in the shows history that particular rephasing of my statement doesnt really fit ATs character Carter (IMHO) where it is my opinion that at this point in the shows history my statement about MSs character Jackson is true. But heck, if its your opinion of ATs character then feel free to have at it. This is the ANTI thread and if you think the primary issue with S10 is too much out of character Carter or just too much Carter in general then feel free to express that opinion.

[Frostfox]

Of course at this point in the shows history that particular rephasing of my statement doesnt really fit ATs character Carter (IMHO) where it is my opinion that at this point in the shows history my statement about MSs character Jackson is true. But heck, if its your opinion of ATs character then feel free to have at it. This is the ANTI thread and if you think the primary issue with S10 is too much out of character Carter or just too much Carter in general then feel free to express that opinion.

I didn't say that the rephrasing suited AT or Sam. I used that as an example. I could have used RDA as the example, or BB or CB. Any actor.

By changing the person in the statement, I was showing how I found the words used to be mocking and disrespectful. I was asking if you would have found them so if someone else had posted the same paragraph about another actor. You wouldn't have. Fine

I would have found it disrespectful of any of the actors.

We obviously have different ideas of respectful discourse.

FF

[ParadoxRealities]

and now that that's said, i can stop taking it on face value and answer FrostFox's question: i agree with AGF. and yes, i disagree with MS's ideology.