S10: Critique & Contemplation

[ReganX]

If I like an ep, I'll say so. For example I liked The Quest Pt 2, but IMO it certainly wasn't the best ep ever, perhaps the best in S10 so far, but there are still things I could find fault with, call me a nit-picker

The Quest, Part 2 wasn't bad. Not great, by any stretch, but better than a lot of Seasons Nine and Ten.

Spoiler:

The Good
- Sam and Ba'al working together. If Sam ever does decide to abandon Team Good Guys, she and Ba'al would be a formidable team.
- A nice moment for Vala after Daniel has taken the Ancient download. It could easily have ended up melodramatic but CB handled it well. Pity it was spoiled by Mitchell's input.
- As villains go, Adria's not the worst. Morena Baccarin does well with what she's given.

The Bad
- The dragon was defeated ridiculously easily.
- I found Daniel's Ancient download and kidnapping uninteresting. I simply didn't care about what happened to the character.
- All the hype about Merlin and then he's wasted so Daniel can have an excuse to take the Ancient download - what were TPTB thinking?
- I'd have liked to see more of Teal'c and less of Mitchell.

The Ugly
- I think the dragon qualifies for this.

[Skydiver]

If this episode discussion threads are really pro-episode fronts, no wonder TPTB who check in here think everything they do is golden.

To be on topic: Amanda is golden. She's a precious person in this world of "what about me?"

i don't think they care. thus thier dismissal of anything but 'omg, it's so great!!!!!!!!!!!!!'

after all, they're still doing a fantastic job, we're just too deluded to apprecaite their greatness

[ReganX]

i don't think they care. thus thier dismissal of anything but 'omg, it's so great!!!!!!!!!!!!!'

after all, they're still doing a fantastic job, we're just too deluded to apprecaite their greatness

And to buy their merchandise.

[AGateFan]

One of the reasons some people don’t post their honest opinions in “unapproved” threads is because sometimes when you do you get the following:
If you don’t like it don’t watch it.
If you don’t like it we don’t want to hear about it.
This post is offensive and should be deleted.
You people are haters and NEVER have anything good to say about anything.
Everyone that is not positive should not be allowed to post and should be banned (ahhh, I miss him… and the Gators won the National Championship too)
Of course any mod who is not 100% positive should not be allowed to be a mod (nod to the poor opinionated mods out there that don’t squee at every opportunity. I LMAO at that one)

And of course red rep with various and sundry comments.

Of course another reason some people only post their honest opinion in certain threads is to be polite. I really honestly don’t want to ruin anyones good time. If someone likes the show, I may think they are crazy but they are entitled to have that opinion and squee away. I however want an equal opportunity to express my dismay and dislike of the current show and to commiserate with people that feel the same way. They don't sometimes want to hear negative. I sometimes don't want to be judged for being negative. Just have your opinion and let me have mine.

I do think their are general discussion threads. For much of its life the DVCKS thread was pretty general with people on both sides of the fence participating and only the occasional "This thread should be deleted".

If I watch an ep I will participate in the Ep Discussion thread and state my true feelings bad and good (really I do sometimes say positive things about eps) about the ep.... but I don’t think it is appropriate to post there if one has not seen the ep. Note though I ALMOST always have to then defend my opinion (and\or am called names and\or are told to stop posting) by at least one (not always the same one) poster. Though the squeelers are ALMOST never called on to defend their opinions (or are called names, or are told to stop posting) nor should they be.

By defend I mean my opinion is attacked not a simple "hmmm, so why do you think that happened" or "I didnt see it that way, I saw it as..." . Those post do also occur but I am talking about the "your WRONG this is what happened" If I say I disagree then again its Your WRONG, even if its an item that is a matter of opinion. And you know what, my opinion is my opinion its not wrong you just have another opinion.......

OK, now I am wandering, so I will stop now. But thats why I dont do a lot of posting in other threads now a days. I guess the big G man would be happy.

[Pitry]

I would LOVE to see an ambivalent thread like Media Savant suggested. I feel the same way she does about the pro versus anti factions at Gateworld. However, unlike Gregorius, I worry that the thread would be taken over by the anti sentiments because that's been my experience on this site. That people with very strong negative opinions about particular things express those same opinions over and over until it takes over the discussion.

But maybe with stronger ground rules that wouldn't happen. I don't know.

I dunno. First, frmo actually reading the thread (in question, that is Quest 2), I've noticed that a lot of people, while saying it was a great episode, also pointed out things they didn't like. Doesn't sound odd at all to me - if you actaly enjoyed the majority of hte epsiode, you come out feeling gerat about it -that's how thigns are with me. Sure, you've ogt enough people saying "bestest episode ever" without ever ellaborating, but I don't think it's any different than "worstest episodes ever" without ellaborating, or even "koayish episode (ever)" withou ellaborating. The key is explaining why you feel that way, not the overall judgement itself - that's what springs out the discussion.

As for ambivalent thread.. well. The majority of the threads here are open for everyone. Hell, have a look at the Cam/Vala and their affect on Stargate thread or the Sam in Atlantis thread, both pretty much have a continuous discussion from both sides... most of the time. The only threads that aren't liek this are the protected ones. While I myself don't enjoy participating in a thread like this - I feel veryone's agreeing all the time with each other and repeating their points over and over agauin, it bores me a bit - if people want this in order to ventilate frustration, it's their right - if I'm not msitaken, this is the point of the thread? (er, basically, what AGateFan said..) The pro- thread was created later, I suspect as "countermeasures". Ambivalent thread just isn't necessary - it's just the rest of the threads on this forum.

Sorry for being off topic.

[AGateFan]

The Anti \ Pro and long lost General Discussion thread for S10 were all created at the same time by the same poster in an attempt, I think, to annoy another poster. Ah, good times, good times .

EDIT: At least, if I remember right, the other poster took personal offense to it. Because apparently you WIN if you create the thread first.

[david2708]

[QUOTE=MediaSavant;6182514] I've spoiled myself on the latest episode by delving into the discussion thread, but the discussion is so relentlessly "greatest episode ever" it too much to be believed.QUOTE]



You should read every other Ep thread. They're also 'the greatest episode ever alot of the time as well.
I've watched nearly every scifi going and IMO Stargate is seemingly miles ahead in the easy to please department with alot of fans.
In general, I've found Scifi fans to be most critical, almost stingy in their appraisals of their favourite scifi shows. Even the most highly acclaimed episodes are always met with slight criticisms here and there.
With Stargate, any old rubbish seems to get the thumbs up by alot of online fans.
I don't know whether that says something about the show, the fans, or maybe both.
In the end, I just think the bar is set pretty low with Gate these days(season7-)and it has attracted alot of online fans who seem easily pleased.
The quality of stargate episodes these days would be torn to shreads on a Trek board. Phasers would be set on kill, believe me.

[JessM]

I dont want to start arguments with you I respect your opinion, but if you did go to the episode thread you might find that there are people who will let you state your negatives about the episodes and value your comments.

Dont think that everyones all the same.

i know that all opinions are welcome there....i just don't feel like it's nice to go in with all the squeeing people and un-squee.

let them enjoy the show in peace

No offense intended bcfc I'm sure all opinions are probably welcome there, but I'm with Sky... really don't want to dampen anyone's mood or anything. (plus I think there are 1 or 2 people there who had run-in's with me in the past over there and I'd like to avoid them)

[Nightspore]

I've spoiled myself on the latest episode by delving into the discussion thread, but the discussion is so relentlessly "greatest episode ever" it too much to be believed.

You should read every other Ep thread. They're also 'the greatest episode ever alot of the time as well.
I've watched nearly every scifi going and IMO Stargate is seemingly miles ahead in the easy to please department with alot of fans.
In general, I've found Scifi fans to be most critical, almost stingy in their appraisals of their favourite scifi shows. Even the most highly acclaimed episodes are always met with slight criticisms here and there.
With Stargate, any old rubbish seems to get the thumbs up by alot of online fans.
I don't know whether that says something about the show, the fans, or maybe both.
In the end, I just think the bar is set pretty low with Gate these days(season7-)and it has attracted alot of online fans who seem easily pleased.
The quality of stargate episodes these days would be torn to shreads on a Trek board. Phasers would be set on kill, believe me.

It's been my observation that many fans want to see team caring. If Mitchell calls Daniel "Sunshine," if Vala shows concern for Daniel and vice versa, if one character touches another character or shows angst when they are in a dangerous situation, many fans will be happy. (Many fans commented that they absolutely loved the basketball scene at the beginning of scene 9; how utterly cool it was, showing that the new team really cared for one another).

IMO, for some fans, it seems as if plot, storyline or whether the Stargate is used or not, is incidental.

[dipsofjazz]

I've been thinking more about the Quest part 2, and thought about the role Mitchell played in the episode. I have come to the conclusion that they could have done the whole episode without him and he wouldn't be missed. Spoilers for Quest p2

Spoiler:

The dragon stuff had them all running from it, then all shooting at it. Mitchell was going to run off and blow the dragon up, but, thankfully, Teal'c stopped him. When they split up for the A and B plots, Sam, Teal'c and Baal are at the gate, and Daniel, Vala and Mitchell are in the cave with the headsucker thingy. All the main interaction here is between Daniel and Vala, with Cam just hanging around. When the baddies come through the gate, Sam and Teal'c fight them, with Mitchell eventually joining them. He wasn't the hero, and had no major stuff to do or say....apart from the (IMHO) vomit-inducing speach to Vala. Of course, this speach could have been done with Sam or Teal'c instead of Cam. He was in the episode, but I really don't know why.

[JessM]

it all came to a head in s6 when MS left teh show. Needless to say the jack/daniel folks weren't too happy while many ship fans didn't care.

season 6 was a warzone, that wasn't helped at all by members of tptb playing online and rousing the rabble. some of them, my opinion, deliberately tried to keep things stirred up...and fans fell for it.

then comes s7 and the jack/daniel folks 'win' and daniel returns.

a lot of the old timers have left. many have moved onto atlantis. but some are still here, but the show has seen a huge influx of people. a lot of them farscape fans. it's changed the dynamics.

the intolerance is still the same. the lack of respect. the need to backbite and harrass. I have never posted on OurStargate, yet i know if i ever went over there i would either be banned or be placed on moderation from the getgo because the folks that run it dont' like the ship group i belong to. I used to be on the same lists with a lot of the ardent daniel fans, but the very same people who were my friends then decided that i wasn't worth knowing when i wouldnt' back or participate in their campaign to save daniel.

This fandom has been fragmented since season 3/4 and will be fragmented until the day it dies.

This intolerance amongst the general fans is just the most current incarnation. To some, it is inconceivable that someone can watch a show and not love every single aspect. and seem to have a self appointed mission to convince every single 'non believer' to see the error of thier ways.

ETA: that this is my personal opinion and rememberance of events. for a more rounded pov, you may wish to ask the recollections of folks that were on 'the other side'.

the truth is likely somewhere in the middle

Nice background on the history of the whole thing. I came into the fandom almost 5 years ago, I guess right before the mid s6 break, so I missed a lot of what went on between the s/j shippers and the jack/daniel fans (i'd only heard about it later). I started out being a big Daniel fan (even though I didn't participate in the whole Save Daniel Jackson campaign) and liked the Jack/Daniel friendship even though I wasn't really into slash. The S/J thing didn't faze me at all... I was open to the idea although wasn't really a fan of romance on the show, so really liked s/j friendship. Somewhere during rerun-watching I veered toward sam/daniel although mostly kept to it in fanfic. I still remain a huge fan of team friendship, meaning the individual friendships between the team members. I remember throughout the course of season 7 and 8 I got harangued by one or two s/j shippers on fanfic sites but that was about it.

Now I get harangued by some Vaniel fanatics and I think they are causing some fragmentation as well. I don't go to OurStargate either; I used to, just to browse the news threads and old episode threads, but since the advent of Vaniel it's gotten a bit too crazy over there for my tastes. I posted in a "Not looking forward to S10" thread and one of them bawled me out in a PM. Decided I didn't need that aggravation and stopped visiting.

It's a shame this fandom has gotten fragmented and continues to do so.

[Jackie]

I have noticed that as far as fan fics go--it's either Sam/Jack or Vaniel. I used to like to read the Daniel and fill in the__ because Daniel's love intrest was someon different and the athor could usually come up with a really good character. Never have the authors used a 'thief with a heart of gold' consept.

For the most part Vala is just too unrealistic for my taste. You don't find a throw in annoying character that ends up as the lead in many shows. (except family matters--remember Urkle?) yep, Vala is Urkle--smart but annoying. Niether really had fashion sense.

I've noticed the show as fluxed the viewers as well. They have brought in more 'younger' fans but failed to keep many of the true blue fans. That's reflected in the posting and fandom fics.

However, no matter how much bickering goes on here--it's far better than the 'old' sci-fi board that was loaded with trolls. Now, the board has been upgraded and the trolls are gone but nobody bothers to go there that much. anymore.

[suse]

I tend to post on the episode threads. No, I'm not usually positive. I see little to be overly enthusiatic about If I see something good I'll mention it. Equally so if I see something bad.

I figure a reasonably thought out post early on in the thread that isn't either squee! or unsquee! might get read where it might create some thought in some PTB that might check out the boards. Unlikelym but there it is.

I do sometimes get embroiled in some polarizing arguement. I can't seem to let sweeping statements about how Rah!Rah!Great (or even bad) something was past. Especially if it's been phrased an a condescending/I'mrightandyouare*wrong* way. It's a weakness I have.

I guess I feel everything has shades of gray and not every episode FANTABULOUS! TEH BEST EVAH! That's just not what outstanding means. So I really don't go on to burst anyone's except maybe TPTB) bubble. But my opinion is as valid as anyone elses and I will not be made to feel that I have to play in my little corner with my little friends because I disagree with someone. Note: At least here on Gateworld. (((mods)))<- - even if I disagree they tend to be fair. I've been run off other places. I really don't fit there - for many reasons.

I do have to say I don't think I've ever been harassed by the pros. Certainly got in, er...heated discussions... but never harassed. And really I've been negative enough about S9/S10 that I was sure I'd be dinged by them by now. Maybe I'm in the minority there. I do tend to fly under the radar (a phrase Cam never learned apparently ) quite a bit.

suse

[Strix varia]

I do have to say I don't think I've ever been harassed by the pros. Certainly got in, er...heated discussions... but never harassed. And really I've been negative enough about S9/S10 that I was sure I'd be dinged by them by now. Maybe I'm in the minority there. I do tend to fly under the radar (a phrase Cam never learned apparently ) quite a bit.

I haven't been red repped or harassed, either, and I've been pretty vocal in my negativity at times. I think I was called a pompous ass once, but I'm sure I come across that way sometimes. *shrugs*

[suse]

I haven't been red repped or harassed, either, and I've been pretty vocal in my negativity at times. I think I was called a pompous ass once, but I'm sure I come across that way sometimes. *shrugs*

LOL. It's the big words you use (and spell) correctly.

suse