S10: Critique & Contemplation

[Skydiver]

One would have thought there would be a higher percentage of orphans among children brought up in war torn countries.

I don't understand why people have claim particular aspects of a character. Don't make characters identical by all means, but it's like saying there can only be one astrophysicist in the show ever.

it's not just that. being family-less is actually the common 'hero' archetype

it's hard to be the hero when youhave to be home or drop saving the world to take a kid to the doctor

that's one reason a character like dixon had such an appeal to some, he was the father of four that still got to explore the universe at work

[ReganX]

it's not just that. being family-less is actually the common 'hero' archetype

it's hard to be the hero when youhave to be home or drop saving the world to take a kid to the doctor

that's one reason a character like dixon had such an appeal to some, he was the father of four that still got to explore the universe at work

True. If Charlie was still alive, I don't think that Jack would have been involved with the SGC. If Sam had adopted Cassie, she wouldn't have been able to continue working on SG-1, same with Daniel if he had taken baby Shifu in.

[the dancer of spaz]

True. If Charlie was still alive, I don't think that Jack would have been involved with the SGC. If Sam had adopted Cassie, she wouldn't have been able to continue working on SG-1, same with Daniel if he had taken baby Shifu in.

I rather like that aspect of the original team (nothing against the new!team in this case). I liked that, before they became a team, they were each an island unto themselves, which further accentuated their inherent uniqueness. I liked that they had to rely on each other, and that if one of them was injured or "died," it was their team that protected them, cared for them, or mourned them. This bond seemed to strengthen over time, and definitely added to each member of SG-1's "heroic" attributes.

[Nolamom]

It's hard to believe that the second half of the season is going to be an improvement when the PTB haven't wasted precious time on character development up to this point. They've had a season and a half to give us insights into Cam and something more than a two-dimensional image of Vala that conveniently changes without rhyme or reason. Vala's character changes like a one-week trip through Europe: if it's Tuesday, this must be France...If it's episode 3, she should be a reforming tart/thief with a total lack of respect.

[Mandysg1]

It's hard to believe that the second half of the season is going to be an improvement when the PTB haven't wasted precious time on character development up to this point. They've had a season and a half to give us insights into Cam and something more than a two-dimensional image of Vala that conveniently changes without rhyme or reason. Vala's character changes like a one-week trip through Europe: if it's Tuesday, this must be France...If it's episode 3, she should be a reforming tart/thief with a total lack of respect.

I think it was too late for Cam from the beginning. First impressions are very important, and if you have your lead character as unbelievable as Cam, no back tracking can help. They should have tried to fix the problem back in S9, instead of giving us a stupid throw away line like he's ex special forces, in S10, when there has never been any indication of that before. He became laughable, and not in a good way.

Vala, comes across as unbelievable as Cam, that all of a sudden, everyone at the SGC trusts her, and they put her on the team Not even Sam saying she earned it, can make it so. Too much bad writing, and ridiculous plots with no character develpment leaves you with a cancelled show.

[Rogue]

I think it was too late for Cam from the beginning. First impressions are very important, and if you have your lead character as unbelievable as Cam, no back tracking can help. They should have tried to fix the problem back in S9, instead of giving us a stupid throw away line like he's ex special forces, in S10, when there has never been any indication of that before. He became laughable, and not in a good way.

Vala, comes across as unbelievable as Cam, that all of a sudden, everyone at the SGC trusts her, and they put her on the team Not even Sam saying she earned it, can make it so. Too much bad writing, and ridiculous plots with no character develpment leaves you with a cancelled show.

Yeah that is just another example of how they used the existing characters to pimp the new ones. You know that was so unbelievable. Sam goes from barely tolerating Vala to telling her she deserves a spot on the team.

Isn't funny how both of the new characters need justification for their existence from the existing characters. If they were written better, no justification would be needed.

[Veritas21]

One would have thought there would be a higher percentage of orphans among children brought up in war torn countries.

I don't understand why people have claim particular aspects of a character. Don't make characters identical by all means, but it's like saying there can only be one astrophysicist in the show ever.

This is exactly the problem that the writers have to get around when introducing a new character because the comparisons will inevitably be made. I personally think they did a good job with Jonas (even if I did miss Daniel) but I don't think they did a good job with Mitchell and just look at all the complaints that appear whenever Mitchell uses a "Jack-ism" or acts in a way fans feel Jack would. Even Joe Flanigan got comparisons to Jack's character and how some people thought John was too much like Jack at first. So if there are any similarities between two characters that are essentially replacing each other (or taking similar character positions such as in Joe's case), then I'd actually be surprised if I didn't see people complaining. I think it's ultimately up to the writers to still be able to make those similarities work if they're going to put them in and then to also include enough interesting different qualities to make that new character unique (in a good way).

[ReganX]

Yeah that is just another example of how they used the existing characters to pimp the new ones. You know that was so unbelievable. Sam goes from barely tolerating Vala to telling her she deserves a spot on the team.

I don't know whether I should take it as an encouraging sign that the writers think that Sam's approval means something or if I should be (even more) depressed about her character being used to pimp the shiny newcomer.

I'm thinking the latter.

Isn't funny how both of the new characters need justification for their existence from the existing characters. If they were written better, no justification would be needed.

Precisely. I remember a discussion regarding Mitchell's CMOH - I still say that thing is chocolate - a while back, and that none of the other characters were given that honour, despite having done far more to deserve it than Mitchell ever did.

The point was made that - unlike Mitchell - Jack, Sam, Daniel, Teal'c and Jonas were true heroes, who didn't need a CMOH, or any other decoration, to justify their existences or their places on SG-1. They got the job based on their own merits.

[Skydiver]

The point was made that - unlike Mitchell - Jack, Sam, Daniel, Teal'c and Jonas were true heroes, who didn't need a CMOH, or any other decoration, to justify their existences or their places on SG-1. They got the job based on their own merits.

what a novel idea

IMHO, mitch's CMOH is a prime example of 'man, ok we gotta make the guy a hero. let's give him a medal. anyone know a good one?' and they just pulled the name of a medal out of their heads and used it. and did little to no reserach on it, and if the AF advisor got his hands on the idea, he either was ignored or is ignorant about the medal as well.

the CMOH is NOT handed out lightly, it is a graet honor and there's a reason that a good chunk of them are awarded posthumously.

they shoulda stuck with the Air Medal like Sam and Jack got back in s2. course, giving mitch the same medal wouldn't have made him 'better' than her, and it's all about making him 'better'...even if 'better' is also unbelievable

[JessM]

They used the same tactic with Jack and Cam. Remember the handing off the baton scene in the fighter. Jack stamped his approval on Cam so Cam must be ok.

Aha! I knew I had a reason to be suspicious of that...

That was not Jack in the fighter - that was his pod person.

[JessM]

i witnessed, back when teh first spoilers for fallout came out, some, and it stress this, SOME daniel fans get up in arms and have a hissy fit because it wa spoiled that dr kieran was a father figure to jonas after his parents were killed

they were upset because, to them, daniel was an orphan therefore for anyone else to be an orphan, it was stealing that trait from daniel

when i pointed out that

we know nothing of jack's family
sam's mom is dead
teal'c's dad was murdered, we know nothing of his mother

and that being an orphan was hardly a daniel only trait i was called all sorts of names

they see and interpret what they want to see adn interpret

I remember that. I couldn't think of anything more ridiculous. Being an orphan was reserved only for Daniel? See, I'd be suspicious if we learned how Jonas was orphaned - if it turned out that his parents were killed in a freak accident at a museum where a coverstone or something similar crushed him to death. I'd think "yeah, that does sound mighty familiar" ... but we didn't know the circumstances.

And you're right - we didn't know all that much about the other characters either. But it's true - they interpret it whatever way they see fit.

[JessM]

given the crap that gets passed off as ship, why on EARTH would they want that????

these men can't write relationship stuff to save their lives. without rick adn amanda's skills to overcome thier cliches these writers' shortcomings are very, very evident

let them have thier vaniel ending. if it keeps the writers from totaly screwing up sam and jack i'm all for it.

whateer the writers come up with will NEVER match what the fans want. NEVER.

i remember when the first spoilers for summit/last stand came out and the slash and daniel fans were all gaga over the prospect of Slave Daniel. they anticipated and played and wrote spec fic and the whole nine yards

then teh show aired and....near total disappointment. daniel wasn't enough of a slave, he wasn't whumped enough, jack didn't care enough, jack iddn't rescue him, yadda, yadda, yadda

fans' anticipation built the show up to an unsustainable level thus one of hte more highly anticipated episodes is one of the most disappointing

I think it goes to show how some of the fans don't care if the writers can't write the relationship stuff (or perhaps they don't see that) - they just want it so bad and don't care about much else. Which is kind of ridiculous.

It's true that the writers will never match what the fans want. I've long given up on having anything I'd like to see come to fruition. Some of the people I've talked to who love Vaniel and want them romantically involved do so because they are hopeless romantics.

I personally think they're setting themselves up for a big fall. In my experience it's better to have lower expectations and then be pleasantly surprised about something than to get my hopes up and be terribly disappointed. Maybe that makes me too much of a pessimist but it has saved me a lot of grief.

[JessM]

Completely agree, I rewatched Meridian and Revelations just recently and felt they handled the whole thing pretty well. Meridian is a powerful ep (can't watch it without shedding a tear I'll admit) and Revelations showed the team handling it as I think they would. I loved the scene at the end where the wind blows and Jack smiles before he gets into the elevator, knowing it's Daniel, so understated but it works.....

Agreed - it's hard for me to watch Meridian without tearing up. The scene at the end of Revelations was done quite well, even if understated.

Yes Jonas had to really work hard for the others, especially Jack to gain his trust and become an accepted member of the team. What have we had with Vala? Daniel comparing her to Teal'c, her joke of a psych evaluation - incidentally I wish they would have had Dr MacKenzie doing that, you really wouldn't want to be in a session with him - another forgotten character.
But then that would have taken away from the comedy of it

Yep heaven forbid we lose the comedy. It would have been interesting to see MacKenzie evaluating her. In an ideal situation I think he might commit her to mental health as Daniel was in Legacy, but then again with these writers we're far from an "ideal situation."

Oh, and let's not forget her being made a team member directly after having been kidnapped, with all the Stepford SG-1 members saying that she earned it.

Oh yes I forgot she has been on some missions, one of which she called Reynolds and his team "amateurs" or something like that......
Jonas never showed anything but respect (as far as I remember) for SGC personnel, when has Vala showed any respect, or indeed pledged her allegiance to the tau'ri like Teal'c did.
But then I guess because in some people's eyes, Vala is just so cool, she can do whatever she likes

*sigh* Yep. I don't remember Jonas showing anything but respect to SGC personnel either. He certainly didn't sit himself down in the General's chair and put his feet up. *shakes head*

[JessM]

That's the kind of shipper I like - we may be passionate but not loud or demanding. We let fanfic fill the hole TPTB left (are they or aren't they - tune in next week!!!). As for seasons 9 & 10 the holes (plot holes, missing beloved character, etc) you could drive a mothership through there isn't enough quality fanfic to spackle up that hole.

Too right. I think that's the best kind of shipper imho. They do leave a lot of holes for us to fill up with fanfic (especially with the lack of character interaction of late). I don't think I've written more episode tags/missing scenes for any season than I have for Season 10. I have about 4 of them going now.

[JessM]

You all are certainly NOT alone. I can't even stomach watching the Daniel character anymore for the most part. When he is with Vala it is fast forward all the way. When he is with Mitchell same thing. When he is with Sam or Teal'c I can stand to watch but just barely since this new persona they have given him permeates with a bad smell no matter who he is with or what the scene calls for. The charcater is starting to stink to high heaven he is becoming so much of a different character - well I guess it goes along with what others have said, they make a new show but don't change the name, they make a new character but instead of changing the name they leave it as Vala, etc., so why not make Daniel a new character and not change the name, who really cares and if the people in charge of the show are making the decisions then their attitiude is probably that the fans are too stupid to notice so who cares. Too bad for them approxiamtely 30% of their viewing audience wasn't stupid enough to miss these changes (which in my opinion were bad all the way around) and they have tuned out. It will be fascinating to see what the mid-season premiere gets in ratings in March (my wild guess is 1.4 or below. I think they'll be lucky to drag-in the 1.4 that the season premiere got).

I wouldn't put it past them to have done that. I thought I was looking at a different character in the first scene which he appeared in Avalon. His attitude just seemed totally different. Granted, it was a scene between him and Mitchell and I totally understood why he would rather go to Atlantis than do this "getting the band back together" stuff, but if that was really Daniel I think he would have come across a bit differently. Maybe it's just me...

It makes me a bit sad because he used to have such great interaction with Sam and Teal'c in the scenes they appeared in (either the three of them together or just Daniel with one of them). Now it's like they happen to be standing near each other and deal with each other out of necessity. TPTB are having too much fun with the Vaniel thing and have either gotten bored with showing the old friendships or they think they've been played to death.

If they didn't get higher than a 1.4 rating for the mid-season premiere, I would not be surprised.