S10: Critique & Contemplation

[Skydiver]

the only way would be to totally hit the reset switch. do a time travel episode and reset things, and i don't see them ever doing that. first they'd have to admit that they made mistakes and they seem too proud of thier work to ever see it as anthing but spectacular and special

you can't correct what you don't think is wrong

Vala and cam could have been intro'd in such a way as to remove most of their crit, but that woudl have taken tim and effort adn they wouldn't have been as much fun.

by indulging thier need for fun, the writers have doomed the show. They've basicaly funned themselves out of jobs

If the show is canned, word will probablly come in oct or nov, right about when the writers would be gathering to start to plot s11

[ReganX]

Whatever hopes TPTB had for their two new stars has not worked and again imo I think it is to late to "fix" it--assuming they even wanted to (which I dont think they do).

I don't think that BB and CB themselves were ever the problem. I don't think that two new stars were needed but they could have had a positive impact on the show and the ratings.

Mitchell and Vala are another story.

For Mitchell, I think that the determination to have BB as the lead handicapped the character. Somebody decided that the character absolutely had to be the star, the leader and the center of the show and this, in my opinion, had a disastrous effect on the show. Major Mitchell as a supporting character could have been a great addition to the team; Full Colonel Mitchell could have been interesting too, especially if he was a jerk as could a Lieutenant Colonel Mitchell who got the job because General Magwitch pulled a lot of strings to get his spy/pawn in command of SG-1. The Mitchell we've got now is a Marty Stu, and not one of the better ones.

Making Vala a whorelette and using all those cheap sex jokes was a terrible idea, plain and simple. Such characters don't have staying power. They are good for a couple of appearances at best. Regulars need more depth.

As far as fixing it goes, I don't see that happening. Vala could possibly be improved but where Mitchell's character is concerned, their hands are tied.

As long as he's in command, the roles of leader and over-enthusiastic newbie will always clash. It is too late at this point to expect him to grow up and become an officer I could feel suitable to be a member of an SG team, let alone lead one so the only other option is to remove him from command.

While this would not be as easy at this point as it would have been in "Beachhead" or shortly afterwards, it is still possible. Promoting Sam to full colonel would be the easiest way to do this but there are other options. Mitchell could lead a mission that, due to his errors in judgement and/or refusal to listen to his teammates' advice, went disastrously wrong and, after an investigation into the mission in question and previous missions, be removed from command. If TPTB wanted to pay homage to themselves, they could have Mitchell transfer to the F-302 project to help train new pilots and come back to learn that Sam has retaken command in his absence.

A Mitchell not in command of SG-1 would be a bit more able to be somewhat reckless - in fact, it would be understandable if his disappointment over losing command mainfested as a need to prove himself by tackling all obstacles in sight - and one of the issues that may have soured the character for fans would be dealt with.

Unfortunately, I don't see TPTB being prepared to demote Mitchell so the only other option would be to remove him as a regular. It wouldn't be necessary to kill him off, he could be transferred to lead the F-302 squadron again and make infrequent guest appearances in that capacity.

Vala, likewise, could go from being a regular to a guest character.

The problem with trying to fix the show is that it may backfire. BB and CB's contracts may not allow for them to be removed as regulars, for starters.

Secondly, they would risk losing fans of the show as it is without winning their former fans back. If they are not watching, they may not know about the changes.

I don't see Sci-Fi advertising the show as "New And Improved Stargate, Now With 50% Less Mitchell (Vala)"

All that remains is when Sci-Fi announces whether it is cancelled or not???

It'll depend on whether or not they think it would be worth their while to continue to invest in the show. Ratings-wise, they've seen a huge drop in viewer numbers since Season Nine's rating average, which was a pretty big drop from Season Eight's.

In all likelihood, Season Ten is costing them more than Season Nine did - where actors are concerned, they have to pay CB as a regular now, and I imagine all other regulars have to have a salary boost of some kind every year - and, given that they're working with a regular cast of six instead of one of four, more than Season Eight.

If they are putting more money into the show and getting less of a return on their investment, they may decide to pull the plug.

I'd say that their decision will have to be made soon, if they haven't made it already - just because they haven't announced anything doesn't mean they haven't decided.

[ReganX]

the only way would be to totally hit the reset switch. do a time travel episode and reset things, and i don't see them ever doing that. first they'd have to admit that they made mistakes and they seem too proud of thier work to ever see it as anthing but spectacular and special

you can't correct what you don't think is wrong

Excellent point. Vala and Mitchell will never be improved as long as those who would be making the improvements don't see a need. I can understand that they may feel protective towards their creations and that it would be difficult to say "okay, this hasn't worked out" but if they're losing so many viewers, it might be wise to ask themselves why.

A time travel episode could work - and even if it didn't, I'd forgive them the cheesiness if it meant that things would be improved afterwards - and "Moebius, Part 2" provided them with an opportunity.

Perhaps the Ori could overwhelm Earth and one of the Ancients (I know Oma's busy but any Ancient Would do) could appear to SG-1 (or even just one member of the team) and tell them that this wasn't the way it was supposed to happen. The timeline was screwed up. Vala and Daniel were never supposed to encounter the Ori and lead them to this galaxy. In the original timeline, the Ori were to go to a different galaxy where they would encounter an extremely advanced race who would wipe the floor with them. The Ancients can't/won't interfere with the fight with the Ori but as the problem with the timeline was caused by an Ancient device and a descendant of the Ancients, they can exploit a loophole in their rules and offer SG-1 the chance to hit the reset button.

There's a catch, though - isn't there always? While hitting the reset button will prevent the Ori posing a threat to Earth, the Ancients can't guarantee what will happen in the reset timeline, to SG-1 or to anyone else. It is possible that a new, worse enemy could do even more damage to the galaxy than the Ori would have. SG-1 (or one character) have to make the decision on behalf of the whole galaxy.

Given that the Ori are inches away from wiping out Earth, SG-1 agrees to the reset. Next thing they know, they're sitting in the briefing room with Landry (or Jack if RDA can be brought back) who tells Sam that her team is cleared to travel to P9E-222 or wherever at 0900 the next day. SG-1 look a bit disoriented for a second but they recover quickly and continue as though nothing out of the ordinary has happened - they no longer remember a thing about the Ori, or the past couple of years, their memories are of what should have happened.

As they are leaving, Landry/Jack wishes "Major Mitchell" the best of luck on his first mission.

Vala and cam could have been intro'd in such a way as to remove most of their crit, but that woudl have taken tim and effort adn they wouldn't have been as much fun.

by indulging thier need for fun, the writers have doomed the show. They've basicaly funned themselves out of jobs

Along with a lot of other people.

If the show is canned, word will probablly come in oct or nov, right about when the writers would be gathering to start to plot s11

I'd say they'll know before that. They'll have to make the last three episodes. I almost think that the longer it takes for the announcement of cancellation, the worse it is for the show. If they wanted it to continue, they might announce the likely cancellation of SG-1 early on to encourage the "Don't cancel Stargate, we love it" letters.

[Skydiver]

it would be nice if they were told in time to 'fix' the last few eps

but it all depends on how skiffy wants to manipulate the fans

do they respect them and want to put the series to bed nicely or do they want to screw with us, manipulate us into a loud and braggable campaign to bring back the longest running show

if it's the former, they'll end it well, if it's the latter, be prepared to be messed with as much as the farscape fans were

[prion]

i realized back in s7, when we got word that corin was gtting fired and MS was coming back and i felt that the hate and bile spread by his fans was being rewarded..i literally couldn't sleep that night.

Can we please not say 'fired' unless you've got the paperwork to prove it? People are 'let go' in Hollywood all the time for various reasons, but fired means 'you're doing a ****ty job'. You can't work around that in ANY business.

And please, don't generalize the actions of SOME of Michael Shanks' fans to all fans. That's one reason this fandom is such a mess.

[ReganX]

it would be nice if they were told in time to 'fix' the last few eps

but it all depends on how skiffy wants to manipulate the fans

do they respect them and want to put the series to bed nicely or do they want to screw with us, manipulate us into a loud and braggable campaign to bring back the longest running show

if it's the former, they'll end it well, if it's the latter, be prepared to be messed with as much as the farscape fans were

Good point. They may deliberately end with a cliffhanger so that people start clamouring for an eleventh season, a mini-series or a TV movie to give the show closure.

[DEM]

Can we please not say 'fired' unless you've got the paperwork to prove it? People are 'let go' in Hollywood all the time for various reasons, but fired means 'you're doing a ****ty job'.

Really? To me, 'fired' and 'let go' are the same thing and neither -- in themselves -- carry connotations re: performance one way or the other.

[Skydiver]

'let go' is just the sugar coated version of the term fired. and a term used when folks don't want to admit to the reality of what was done.

corin had a two year contract, but tptb were convinced that jonas was hated and reviled by the whole world so he went away. And a good character went along with him. And since we've never heard that the portrayal of jonas was an issue, logic dictates that there was another reason.

and i'm totally sure that the hundreds of photocopied adn forged letters had absolutely NOTHING to do with it. (and by forged i mean people following the instructions to 'if you think a neighbor of yours feels that jonas should go away and daniel should return, write a letter on thier behalf. Or take names from the phone book' suggestion that was given to those that wished to write letters

The stark reaity is that SOME daniel fans were so desperate to have their actor back that they assassinated another character to get thier way. And all the white washing and politically correct terms in the world can't change that.

[ReganX]

and i'm totally sure that the hundreds of photocopied adn forged letters had absolutely NOTHING to do with it. (and by forged i mean people following the instructions to 'if you think a neighbor of yours feels that jonas should go away and daniel should return, write a letter on thier behalf. Or take names from the phone book' suggestion that was given to those that wished to write letters

Isn't that illegal?

[pittsburghgirl]

I don't know about the reset button. I kinda liked the way the guys at Dallas did it. They ignored it. They pretended the season never happened and picked up from the season prior -you know when the realization that you have produced a clusterf****k is present-maybe just being honest and saying-okay that was bad and we are going to pretend it never happened-and they made it clear that they were going to pretend it never happened and how much longer did dallas last after that?

[Skydiver]

I don't know about the reset button. I kinda liked the way the guys at Dallas did it. They ignored it. They pretended the season never happened and picked up from the season prior -you know when the realization that you have produced a clusterf****k is present-maybe just being honest and saying-okay that was bad and we are going to pretend it never happened-and they made it clear that they were going to pretend it never happened and how much longer did dallas last after that?

that would be funny

in fact we've joked about that more than once.

'jack is in the shower and it's all a dream'

[pittsburghgirl]

that would be funny

in fact we've joked about that more than once.

'jack is in the shower and it's all a dream'

indeed we have-but you know-first of all they have to admitt that they made a mistake and this they have not done. Nor do I suppose they will-but still

*thoughts of Jack in the shower

[Melora]

and since brad has left, ALL the female characters on the show have been shoved into these pigeon holes. Sam has suffered the most because she had 7 years of being a kick butt character but is now the victim of coop's 'vision' of the female character, but vala, teyla and weir are all suffering.

(snip)

commitment issues is a joke,but how these boys write women isn't. if the woman isn't teh subservient pretty thing in the background, she's a screw up and the cause of something going wrong.

I agree with you that TPTB have had trouble writing interesting female characters in the past few years. It makes me wonder how in the world they did such a good job with Carter for so long.

Then I realized, except for part of Season 1, they really didn’t write Sam explicitly as a “woman.” There were times when she was the object of affection for the alien love-interest of the week, but otherwise they wrote her to be rather asexual. Think about it, other than the scenes with Jonas Hanson, Narim, Martouf, the ship scenes with Jack, etc., the character of Sam could have been portrayed as either female or male. The lines could have been read by a male or female actor. What made her character feminine were the little subtle touches that AT added. And if I remember correctly, that is exactly the way AT wanted it.

The only time they actively wrote her as a "female" character was in season 1. And what they came up with was Sam as the gung-ho feminist trying to prove herself in a man’s world. Likewise, when they actively tried to write her as a “woman” in Seasons 7 and 8, what we got was a character that was constantly indecisive and awkward in her personal relationships.

Perhaps what made Carter such a great female character was that TPTB didn’t actually have to write her as a “woman.” And perhaps that is what has gone wrong in Atlantis, although I am not as familiar with the stories on that series.

It seems to me that Teyla could be a terrific character if they would just give her some good stories and stop making the focus of her character about her wardrobe. Likewise, Weir has a lot of potential but she is often portrayed as indecisive and unsure of herself. And when she does make a firm decision, it is often a mistake and her leadership abilities are called into question time and time again. It does create some conflict, but it doesn’t help the character much. After a while, you have to question why this person is in charge at all.

Is it a particularly feminine quality to be always questioning yourself and your decisions? Because TPTB seem to think so. I don’t see any of the male characters angsting over the mistakes they have made and constantly apologizing for them. In fact, most of them seem to shrug it off and move on.

Perhaps if TPTB started writing the female characters less as “women” and allowed the actresses to infuse femininity into their roles in their own way, they would be able to correct some of the mistakes that have been made with them.

[DEM]

Is it a particularly feminine quality to be always questioning yourself and your decisions? Because TPTB seem to think so.

Whether it is or not, it certainly isn't a trait generally associated with people whose careers are at the level of Carter, Weir, or Teyla. You don't get to be that successful if you're wishy-washy (barring the episodic bout of depression... Abe Lincoln came to mind).

Now, I know that a rebuttal in Carter's case would be that it was her personal life that was a mess. Okay, fine, but why would I want or need to see that -- especially for 2 consecutive seasons?!

[Hatusu]

I agree with you that TPTB have had trouble writing interesting female characters in the past few years. It makes me wonder how in the world they did such a good job with Carter for so long.

Then I realized, except for part of Season 1, they really didn’t write Sam explicitly as a “woman.” There were times when she was the object of affection for the alien love-interest of the week, but otherwise they wrote her to be rather asexual. Think about it, other than the scenes with Jonas Hanson, Narim, Martouf, the ship scenes with Jack, etc., the character of Sam could have been portrayed as either female or male. The lines could have been read by a male or female actor. What made her character feminine were the little subtle touches that AT added. And if I remember correctly, that is exactly the way AT wanted it.

The only time they actively wrote her as a "female" character was in season 1. And what they came up with was Sam as the gung-ho feminist trying to prove herself in a man’s world. Likewise, when they actively tried to write her as a “woman” in Seasons 7 and 8, what we got was a character that was constantly indecisive and awkward in her personal relationships.

Perhaps what made Carter such a great female character was that TPTB didn’t actually have to write her as a “woman.” And perhaps that is what has gone wrong in Atlantis, although I am not as familiar with the stories on that series.

They had Kathryn Powers in the first couple seasons. I don't know why not later.