S10: Critique & Contemplation

[ReganX]

Very good points re: Daniel/Vala and the ratings. And I agree about the third spin-off. If it was simply something like taking the same formula they used for early S9 ("Stargate Command" or whatever with Mitchell, Vala, Daniel, and Landry), I definitely would not be interested in watching it, no matter how much I like Daniel. I think it should be something totally different and original.

If Seasons Nine and Ten were to be a kind of trial run for Mitchell, Vala and Landry before they were launched "Stargate Command" or whatever they were going to call the spin-off once they had achieved their record ten seasons, then the ratings would suggest to me that the trial run wasn't exactly a resounding success.

If those who will be putting the money into any spin-off agree, they may decide to either go with an entirely new cast or one or two proven characters - I believe that Sam-centric episodes, for example, tend to do very well, and she, Daniel and Teal'c were able to keep the show going when RDA's availability was reduced - with new characters as back-up.

And yeah, I think Sam on her own in another show would do a lot better as a spin-off.

Definitely.

[ToasterOnFire]

Given that Farscape's writers were mostly men and they were ardently into making the show "shippy" and said it had a "love story" element from the beginning, I don't think it's just about their gender that makes them commitment-phobic.

Rockne O'Bannon, who created Farscape, and David Kemper who was the showrunner for its run were into 'ships and did them well.

Absolutely. I'd argue that the problems with female characters and ship on the shows are not due to the fact that the writers are men, they're due to the fact that the writer are men who can't write women and relationships well. New blood would help immensely here - men, women, office plants, it doesn't matter as long as they can write these situations better than they're currently being written.

Until the writers show that they can actually make a decision regarding S/J, I have zero desire to see ship leak over to Atlantis.

[Skydiver]

exactly.

the show is run by men that think that women are nothing more than

the hooker with a heart of gold
the girl friend
the mommy figure
the token pretty alien

and since brad has left, ALL the female characters on the show have been shoved into these pigeon holes. Sam has suffered the most because she had 7 years of being a kick butt character but is now the victim of coop's 'vision' of the female character, but vala, teyla and weir are all suffering.

coop can write the boys. i think he did a dang good job on Sateda, but when it comes to women he can't write them and doesn't seem able to make the otehr writers write them

we've noticed, if sam's a screw up, it's an episode that coop is involved in. vala is nothing more than a cliche they drag out for comedic relief, teyla is nothing more than pretty belly baring scenery to prop up shep and weir is ineffectual at best and spends most of her time ordering shep not to do something then just patting him on the head with a 'it's ok' when he ignores her and does what he wants

commitment issues is a joke,but how these boys write women isn't. if the woman isn't teh subservient pretty thing in the background, she's a screw up and the cause of something going wrong.

A lack of a decent female chracter is why, as much as i think it's a better show, i just can't get itno atlantis. I can't identify with either of these women.. I sure as heck can't identify with miss sex object largely because i woujldn't be caught dead running around half dressed most of the time and weir is just the mommy figure and that doesn't appeal either

about the only character that the show had that i felt had some potential was Sora, but they got rid of her. I guess she woulda b rought too much conflict into the show and you can't have that.

the characters can't conflict. OMG we might not get that they're friends if they do that, so theymust all get along like brainwashed pod people

[Mandysg1]

I know when SG1 started to suffer from this 'poor writing', but I'm not really into SGA, when it start having the same problem, or was it from the beginning?

[suse]

On one of the special features on the Season 9 DVD boxset(Australia) Brad Wright says he has no intention of bringing in any new writers or directors for the show. He wants to keep it all in the family.
That pretty much spells the death knell for the show. Things aint gonna get much better, I'm afraid.

Frack. That explains a lot.

We are doing great! /sarcasm

I suppose adding writers would butt into the "cost-cutting" aspect of running 2 shows at once.

Seems to me (potentially) higher ratings because of better storytelling would warrant it. But then what do I know?

Suse

[Hatusu]

Frankly-I think I have heard enough about episode 200 to pass.

I'm going to give it a chance.

What am I talking about? I'm looking forward to it. RDA is back! I love his way with humor.

[Mandysg1]

I'm going to give it a chance.

What am I talking about? I'm looking forward to it. RDA is back! I love his way with humor.

And just think about it, if we don't watch it, how can we complain about it

[Hatusu]

Yesterday, I caught the second half of "Enemy Within". That's the episode where Kawalsky was taken over by a Goa'uld. It was also the episode in which Teal'c proved himself to General Hammond and was welcomed into SG1. Instead of rebelling and smart mouthing everyone, Teal'c showed discipline and loyalty. The last scene has O'Neill telling Tea'lc to call the General "Sir", an order which he promptly followed. Teal'c also acceded to O'Neill's authority even though he was a First Prime.

Maybe this isn't what some people want in a character, but it's what the military respects. That's authentic and believable story telling.

[ToasterOnFire]

I know when SG1 started to suffer from this 'poor writing', but I'm not really into SGA, when it start having the same problem, or was it from the beginning?

It's difficult to tell exactly. I feel that s1, while it did have its flaws, overall was a great setup and made the show and its characters feel like they had lots of potential. I'd say that things got shakier in s2 when they didn't capitulate on the promise of the characters (for example, the writers apparently thought it was better to have Shep get with alien chick of the week (TM) than explore his backstory), the exploration of the city/PG was downplayed, the wraith turned into a weaker enemy, the team started making dumb decisions, and the whole retrovirus arc (which I thought was poorly implemented) was introduced.

I'll be very happy if they can recover from s2, but frankly I don't know if they viewership has stuck around to give them another chance. I've read plenty a poster on other forums who were drawn in by s1, frustrated with a lack of progression in s2, and now have given up on Atlantis or watch it only casually. In this I see a similarity between SG1's s9 and Atlantis's s2 and can understand the drop in the ratings for both.

[Krilia]

I would agree with Toaster on Atlantis: I would probably go on to note that the first half or so of Season 1 was definitely the show finding itself, and then got quite good by the end. In season 2, it felt like some characters were pushed into things where they didn't belong, just because the writers wanted them there, like missions that Rodney had no business to be on and the like. Teyla, to me, has never really had much character, but Weir does seem to be more in the background these days.

[pittsburghgirl]

I would agree with Toaster on Atlantis: I would probably go on to note that the first half or so of Season 1 was definitely the show finding itself, and then got quite good by the end. In season 2, it felt like some characters were pushed into things where they didn't belong, just because the writers wanted them there, like missions that Rodney had no business to be on and the like. Teyla, to me, has never really had much character, but Weir does seem to be more in the background these days.

bet they are sorry it was Dr. Edward Weir instead of Dr. Elizabeth Weir. It seems as if they have no idea what to do with a female character in a position of power. Weir's character is almost continually disrespected and second guessed. Sort like a certain female Lt. Colonel on another show we know.

[saberhagen83]

Yesterday, I caught the second half of "Enemy Within". That's the episode where Kawalsky was taken over by a Goa'uld. It was also the episode in which Teal'c proved himself to General Hammond and was welcomed into SG1. Instead of rebelling and smart mouthing everyone, Teal'c showed discipline and loyalty. The last scene has O'Neill telling Tea'lc to call the General "Sir", an order which he promptly followed. Teal'c also acceded to O'Neill's authority even though he was a First Prime.

Maybe this isn't what some people want in a character, but it's what the military respects. That's authentic and believable story telling.

I really liked how Teal'c had to prove himself to be able to join SG1. That is something I found realistic, they didn't do anything like this with Vala. I feel that the millitary status of SG has gone away, and it seems like they have thrown out the military advisors that helped the show feel more real in previous years.

[Rogue]

bet they are sorry it was Dr. Edward Weir instead of Dr. Elizabeth Weir. It seems as if they have no idea what to do with a female character in a position of power. Weir's character is almost continually disrespected and second guessed. Sort like a certain female Lt. Colonel on another show we know.

I never really understood why Weir was put in charge of the SGC or Atlantis. She was a negotiator who spoke several languages but I hardly think that qualifies her to run either the SGC or Atlantis.

I think Weir and Carter are in the same boat, the writers don't know what to do with them. They aren't fun characters.

Of course the writers would never put a inexperience person incharge of SG-1.

[Skydiver]

I really liked how Teal'c had to prove himself to be able to join SG1. That is something I found realistic, they didn't do anything like this with Vala. I feel that the millitary status of SG has gone away, and it seems like they have thrown out the military advisors that helped the show feel more real in previous years.

i don't think they're interested in 'real' anymore. i guess 'real' isnt' fun, and it's all abuot fun

see, for me, having the show be even slightly real was what made it so intrigueing. these were real people, handling things in a real wy and it ws handled in such a way that it could be, well real. there could have been a base in colorado under norad. and there could have been goa'uld on earth

but they've gotten so silly and fantastical that it's sucked most of the fun out of it. It's no longer a dramedy starring some real characters, it a farcical comedy featuring charicture of the week

[ParadoxRealities]

I never really understood why Weir was put in charge of the SGC or Atlantis. She was a negotiator who spoke several languages but I hardly think that qualifies her to run either the SGC or Atlantis.

bit like a Major Lt. Col. we know, eh? but at least we know Weir was manipulated, so it makes(/made) some sort of sense. and then the head military guy who's-name-i-can't-remember died. so it was a better crafted contrived than some other examples i could give.

but they've gotten so silly and fantastical that it's sucked most of the fun out of it. It's no longer a dramedy starring some real characters, it a farcical comedy featuring charicture of the week

i've noticed that in the way they describe themselves too. it used to be the set is fun and all the actors are hilarious. now it's 'a silly scifi show that can't/doesn't take itself seriously'. i mean, how cheesy would that sound? was Heros silly or cheesy? it was funny, of course, but silly? they've forgotten how to be funny without being silly.


and yes, this shipper's POed at 200 (and RE, and blah and blah and blah) too. i know TPTB are notorious for their fence straddling, but sometimes i just wanna take that fence post...away