S10: Critique & Contemplation

[Skydiver]

trust me sally, if you saw all the ranting and raving rodney does on atlantis, he deserved a little lemon therapy

[AGateFan]

trust me sally, if you saw all the ranting and raving rodney does on atlantis, he deserved a little lemon therapy

Quite frankly I am surprised Sheppard and Ronan haven’t shot Mckay yet. Oh, wait Sheppard did ......

season 1 spoiler ep HIDE AND SEEK

Spoiler:

in the leg, while Rodney was wearing a personal shield, but still, it was probably therapeutic.

[ReganX]

okay, how about this?...

mitchell and sheppard 'get together', and then run off somewhere to shove their overwhelming machoness around the galaxy. sound good?





sally

I don't have anything against Sheppard, and if he gets rid of Mitchell - I know it'll happen a few weeks after never, but I can dream, right? - he'll go up a few notches in my esteem.

[majorsal]

spoilers for s10's 'peg project' (i'm not sure if i'm spelling 'pegasus' correctly, so i'm shortening it)

trust me sally, if you saw all the ranting and raving rodney does on atlantis, he deserved a little lemon therapy

okay. but what about ppl like me? the only stuff i've ever seen with mckay was his stargate sg1 appearances. i thought mckay was being jerky in 'peg proj', but i didn't see him do anything even close to deserving the treatment he got by his supposed friend sheppard, and then by stranger mitchell. i don't think sam was so much mean to him as she allowed (and encouraged) mitchell to bully him. i actually felt sorry for mckay, and that's really strange since at one time, i wanted sam to pop him in the face.

argh. i just think mitchell's smugness and treatment of mckay set off my underdog tendencies for mckay. but i wasn't thrilled with sam's attitude with him either, but that's only in that she let it happen.

BUT I'M SOOOOOO GLAD THERE WAS NO SAM/MCKAY SHIPPINESS!!! *hugs brad for that little treasure*





sally

[Skydiver]

i think you just discovered the danger of too many 'in jokes' in a crosover.

atlantis viewers are well versed in how much of a tuckas rod can be. He yells and screams and rants and raves and acts the prima donna.

so knowing that, you can chuckle at mitch running interferance for sam

but if you don't, yeah, the attitude seems unfair

[ses110]

Sally I have to say I loved how Mitchell and Sheppard treated McKay.I also loved that Sam did not come to McKay rescue.IMO McKay needs an attitude adjustment.After McKay gets one Mitchell is next.

[Uber]

i think you just discovered the danger of too many 'in jokes' in a crosover.

atlantis viewers are well versed in how much of a tuckas rod can be. He yells and screams and rants and raves and acts the prima donna.

so knowing that, you can chuckle at mitch running interferance for sam

but if you don't, yeah, the attitude seems unfair

But did you all notice that after

Spoiler:

Shep gave Mitchell the lemon and walked away that he turned and Sam apparently saw the lemon and started laughing. She knew what it was for the moment she saw it.

And I agree with Sky. The threats to McKay's life were warranted. Further, without giving anything away, we have seen several times that this is when he comes up with his best (dare I say "Sam-like") solutions...Inferno being a good example.

[ses110]

It will be a cold day in Netu when I feel sorry for McKay.

[suse]

I had a thought about the bad ratings for the fisrt 2 weeks of new Stargate.
My opinion only:

Casual viewers gave Stargate SG-1 S9 a whole season. Yes ratings dropped a bit, but not too badly. But as the break in new eps wore on they started hearing that Vala the camp vamp was now a full time cast member. And they remembered that Cam was (badly) written as in charge, basically demoting Sam from her leadership role, while all the original cast members were marginalized in favor of the Farscape two. And BB was touted as the leading man. And they remembered when Vala was on she got the lions share of screne time. So the casual fan just didn't come back. Period.


Seriously, I don't get why they think fans can't tell the difference between BB and MS but think that hiring 2 leads from a cancelled show from the same network and then touting one as lead while the other gets a huge arc as a "guest star cough" is a great idea. On the one hand we are dumb and on the other....what? Dumb enough to accept it? Smart enough to see they are different characters? Both?

I want to know why SG-1 has been "farscapeized" by more than the stars. Potty humor, shooting 2 guns at once - I don't remember this before S9! - Rambo tendencies to put self in harms way instead of teams covering each other's back...

Suse

[Skydiver]

I want to know why SG-1 has been "farscapeized" by more than the stars. Potty humor, shooting 2 guns at once - I don't remember this before S9! - Rambo tendencies to put self in harms way instead of teams covering each other's back...

Suse

because somene at skiffy thinks taht that silliness is 'good' tv and is calling the shots, comicalizing a once good, dramatic show and turning it into a hewoic farce

[minigeek]

argh. i just think mitchell's smugness and treatment of mckay set off my underdog tendencies for mckay. but i wasn't thrilled with sam's attitude with him either, but that's only in that she let it happen.

I didn't come away with the same negative impact that you did, Sally, but in hindsight, I would agree with you that Mitchell's attitude towards McKay was (with lack of a substantive backstory) quite along the lines of a highschool bully - the kind of thing I'd assume McKay had a lot of practise with growing up. Mitchell being the stereotypical "Jock" and McKay being the stereotypical "Geek". You're right (in hindsight), Mitchell was cruel to McKay right off the cuff and there was definitely a "cool kids/not cool kids"" kind of a clique mentality going on wherein Sam did visibly choose the "cool kids" side.

That speaks to her character, though, and hey if we wanted to, we could even use it as a flaw/conflict for her given that she's grown so much in the last decade with the SGC - in what ways is she still struggling to be 'accepted' in her own right? Or is she already everyone's perfect golden child so that she doesn't have to care anymore? If she is, then tptb are right and she's done growing and they can stop writing stories for her. But if she's NOT and if there's still a part of her that gets insecure (for any reason) then it presents itself as a grain of sand that can germinate more conflict for her character (imho).

Have any of us ever (perhaps even in HS) been with a group of more so-called "popular" people who were picking on someone and we didn't say anything because we didn't want to tarnish our own standing therein? Ever? Even once? As adults, we live in a very different world than we did when we were in HS, but there are definitely still cliques, still little "strutting contests" and there are definitely still social outcasts.

I think you're right, Sally, in hindsight Mitchelll was acting like a stereotypical ass. But McKay was also acting like a self righteous, arrogant, jerk (he was!!). And I think Sam's been so frustrated with McKay in the past that she more than welcomed the opportunity to take him down a few pegs (especially when she didn't have to do the 'taking down' - so to speak - it was done for her by 'her posse' hehehe). Seriously, think of the psychology there, and if Sam is NOT perfect, think about how you'd have reacted in her shoes given that psychology.

mg

[Gregorius]

trust me sally, if you saw all the ranting and raving rodney does on atlantis, he deserved a little lemon therapy

He does? I thought he was the social, easy going person, burdened by his intelligence, his low selfesteem and his good fortune with the women. Rodney would never consider himself the most important person in Atlantis, instead he is constantly telling people how much better than him they are.

Spoiler:

In a seriousness, the best Pegasus moment was in the briefing room:
Rodney: "The yield calculations will be extremely difficulty if not borderline impossible. You may need me.""
Vala: "Colonel Carter said as much."
Carter: "oeh, we weren't going to tell him that."
** Rodney looks like Christmas has come early **
Then again, all scenes with McKay/Carter are usually great.

As for Mitchell's behavior, I can understand it. You must realize that Carter and Jackson would've told Cam all about Rodney's arrogance and his behavior resulting from this, Rodney has build up quite the reputation, and that in order to keep Rodney in control you musn't give him a chance to build up arrogace. So it's highly likely Mitchell already took this advice at heart and goes to Atlantis with it, he encounters McKay, and McKay's behavior, in the briefing room and already sees his fears confirmed by Weir and Sheppard's reactions (Weir: "John do you think you can spare Rodney from your team?" John: "Hell, you can keep him."). So Cam doesn't give Rodney any ground on which he can build his arrogance (Yes, the Sheppard Lemon).

Basicly it's a case of the reputation preceding the person and the person in question then confirms the reputation.

[Mandysg1]

I didn't come away with the same negative impact that you did, Sally, but in hindsight, I would agree with you that Mitchell's attitude towards McKay was (with lack of a substantive backstory) quite along the lines of a highschool bully - the kind of thing I'd assume McKay had a lot of practise with growing up. Mitchell being the stereotypical "Jock" and McKay being the stereotypical "Geek". You're right (in hindsight), Mitchell was cruel to McKay right off the cuff and there was definitely a "cool kids/not cool kids"" kind of a clique mentality going on wherein Sam did visibly choose the "cool kids" side.

That speaks to her character, though, and hey if we wanted to, we could even use it as a flaw/conflict for her given that she's grown so much in the last decade with the SGC - in what ways is she still struggling to be 'accepted' in her own right? Or is she already everyone's perfect golden child so that she doesn't have to care anymore? If she is, then tptb are right and she's done growing and they can stop writing stories for her. But if she's NOT and if there's still a part of her that gets insecure (for any reason) then it presents itself as a grain of sand that can germinate more conflict for her character (imho).

Have any of us ever (perhaps even in HS) been with a group of more so-called "popular" people who were picking on someone and we didn't say anything because we didn't want to tarnish our own standing therein? Ever? Even once? As adults, we live in a very different world than we did when we were in HS, but there are definitely still cliques, still little "strutting contests" and there are definitely still social outcasts.

I think you're right, Sally, in hindsight Mitchelll was acting like a stereotypical ass. But McKay was also acting like a self righteous, arrogant, jerk (he was!!). And I think Sam's been so frustrated with McKay in the past that she more than welcomed the opportunity to take him down a few pegs (especially when she didn't have to do the 'taking down' - so to speak - it was done for her by 'her posse' hehehe). Seriously, think of the psychology there, and if Sam is NOT perfect, think about how you'd have reacted in her shoes given that psychology.

mg

Well thought out post mini, but there is one big flaw
TPTB don't think things out this well, it would never even occur to them

[minigeek]

Well thought out post mini, but there is one big flaw
TPTB don't think things out this well, it would never even occur to them

*snerk* Exactly Mandy. Which is why we have to look at the moments we're given and try and weave some character development into those decisions, ourselves.

What I mean is, I could look at Sam's behaviour in TPP as immature and even cruel (towards McKay), or I could choose to analyze her backstory a bit and try to see how it might fit. If I choose scenario one, I lose respect for the character, and she doesn't deserve that. If I choose scenario two, I can formulate my own hypothesis and look at it as a part of a larger picture (even if I'm drawing that picture myself). It still does work, logically speaking. And I'm able to continue to respect the character's choices, even when she makes (what I feel are) mistakes.

[suse]

Spoilers for The Pegagus Project"

Spoiler:

In a seriousness, the best Pegasus moment was in the briefing room:
Rodney: "The yield calculations will be extremely difficulty if not borderline impossible. You may need me.""
Vala: "Colonel Carter said as much."
Carter: "oeh, we weren't going to tell him that."
** Rodney looks like Christmas has come early **
Then again, all scenes with McKay/Carter are usually great.

As for Mitchell's behavior, I can understand it. You must realize that Carter and Jackson would've told Cam all about Rodney's arrogance and his behavior resulting from this, Rodney has build up quite the reputation, and that in order to keep Rodney in control you musn't give him a chance to build up arrogace. So it's highly likely Mitchell already took this advice at heart and goes to Atlantis with it, he encounters McKay, and McKay's behavior, in the briefing room and already sees his fears confirmed by Weir and Sheppard's reactions (Weir: "John do you think you can spare Rodney from your team?" John: "Hell, you can keep him."). So Cam doesn't give Rodney any ground on which he can build his arrogance (Yes, the Sheppard Lemon).

Basicly it's a case of the reputation preceding the person and the person in question then confirms the reputation.

Wow. It would be the first time he's heeded his (and by "his" I mean the group of people he serves with not leads) team's warning.

Suse