S10: Critique & Contemplation

[ReganX]

No doubt. Super Cam does everything bigger and better then everyone else. Hell hes even from Kansas so now he gets to be Dorthy, the STAR of the show. Too bad the show was waaayyy better for the 8 years he wasnt on it.

The only Mitchell's _____ trip through the stargate I want to see celebrated is his last.

[Mandysg1]

what I'd like to see for the 200th episode is for Martin to look at the group in front of him, then notice Mitchell and say "Who is this shmoe, I wanted SG1, O'Neill, Carter, Jackson and Murray!

[suse]

It's too late for that. His backstory has already been established.

- He was one of many F-302 pilots involved in the fight against Antarctica, and technically he did less to defend SG-1 than some of the others did as he was shot down midway through the fight and they presumably carried on fighting without him.

- He was given a position on SG-1 because he asked for it. He was offered his choice of positions (something I consider extremely suspect) and he was the one who decided that he deserved to be on SG-1. It wasn't even a case of Jack visiting him in the hospital, saying that he'd read his file and was very impressed and that, once Mitchell was better, he had a job that he might be interested in.

- He got his position as leader of SG-1 due to Sam's conveniently timed absence from the SGC. He badgered her to leave a command position and Daniel and Teal'c to abandon their plans so that they could serve under his command. They refused, later returning to the SGC due to the situation with the Ori. In a later episode, Mitchell falsely accepted credit for "getting the band back together".

As far as his leadership abilities (or lack thereof) are concerned, he has had a season to demonstrate his fitness for command of SG-1 and, from where I'm sitting, he has failed miserably. It is unrealistic for him to suddenly change and become the kind of person who could be trusted to be on SG-1, let alone to lead them or for Sam, Daniel and Teal'c to fall in line and start to trust his "leadership" - unless, of course, all three of them get lobotomies.

Agreed with all above. PLease expect San Daniel & Teal'c to have had lobotomies.

Suse
getting bucket ready
(as long as roof is fixed by then)

[ReganX]

what I'd like to see for the 200th episode is for Martin to look at the group in front of him, then notice Mitchell and say "Who is this shmoe, I wanted SG1, O'Neill, Carter, Jackson and Murray!

I must admit that I became quite fond of the Nerus guy when he said that meeting Mitchell and Vala instead of Jack and Sam was a disappointment.

Of course, what I'd worry about is that, while Martin unintentionally snubs Mitchell initially, while he is fawning over the others trouble breaks out and poor, left-out Mitchell turns Cambo and saves the day.

[Rogue]

Yes, the sentence is atrociously written. I do, however, think that the "Cam's 200th" interpretation is correct.

Assume each mission involves 2 trips through the event horizon:

200/2 = 100 missions.

Episode 200 is 10.6, which would be approx. 58 weeks for Mitchell. Let's round down to one year, assuming leave time.

100 missions/52 weeks = 1.9 missions per week.

That amount of activity would be in keeping with series history, I think. Moreover, Mitchell's actual average is most likely lower than 1.9 because many missions involve more than 2 trips thru the stargate.

... then again, I wouldn't be surprised if there is dialogue in 200 that explains that Mitchell has accomplished his 200th trip In Record-Breaking Time!

hmm, maybe your right. How disappointing. I thought this was a celebration for the team not for one member. I should have known its all about Mitchell.

[ReganX]

hmm, maybe your right. How disappointing. I thought this was a celebration for the team not for one member. I should have known its all about Mitchell.

Given that it was Jack, Sam, Daniel and Teal'c's characters that did so much to make SG-1 a great show, I think that it would be utterly ridiculous to try to make the 200th episode, a celebration of the show's longevity and success, focus on the guy who will have been in only 13% of those two hundred episodes.

Then again, I thought that it would be utterly ridiculous to put a new character in command ahead of Sam, and look how that one turned out.

[LaCroix]

I hate to start this post this way.

In another fandom far away and long since forgotten, there where two characters that were introduced. Almost everyone in that fandom thought that these two characters may be the next spinoff.

These characters were Vachon and Vetter of Forever Knight. While the show was based on Nick Knight and his quest to become human again, more and more fans saw V&V episodes and less K&L (Lambert, she was Nick's friend, maybe something more).

Now in the end of all this the show was cancelled, well before this ever happened.

Now what has this to do with SG-1. While I feel that TPTB are trying to make a spinoff with Mitchell and Vala there forgetting the original three characters and guest star who made the show. If the 200th is to be a spoof, like the 100th was, then let those who made the show shine also.

Since all I have to go on are spoilers and images, I see this episode a more than a spoof. I see a a total farce.

[Zoser]

Good points. The system won't let me rep you meantime or I'd have given you green. I have, I must confess, never understood what great feat of heroics or courage Mitchell displayed to merit the rewards he was given. On screen, he pretty much seemed to be doing his job - fairly competently - just like all the other pilots there at the time. But what he did that was special or that made SG1 or the planet particularly indebited to him and him alone...well that just wasn't made clear to me at all.



Excellent points, also, ReganX. Did get to green you. Unless they go for something completely Dallas-esque - perhaps it was all a covert secret mission a la Shades of Gray and Mitchell was just acting like a juvenile groupie all season because he was in league with the Asgard and is suddenly revealed in S10 as a true hero after all (yeah, right) - they can't reset much in the way of Mitchell's character now. So that one's pretty much a lame excuse on the part of his supporters, imo.

And you have to consider that things have gotten pretty ropey on a show if they're having to consider retro-grading not one but two characters after one season with them, don't you?

Glad I wasn't hallucinating on the 200 trips through the Gate thing. (If I AM going to hallucinate because of a stomach bug I can think of better scenarios... <coughJackO'Neillandwhippedcream<cough>). I think it being Mitchell's 200th trip makes much more sense, Mr. Prophet, I agree. In Tokra II, Sam tells Jacob that she travels through the Gate to other planets pretty much two or three times a week. Given that there are several other teams also making regular trips, you'd figure that the other days of the week when SG1 aren't on a mission the other teams must be filling in some of that time at least. And that would surely only increase as the years went on and more teams were created. (Can't recall how many teams there were in S2).

Albion

Now that sounds like an episode I would definitely watch!!

[ParadoxRealities]

I thought that 200 would be the sixth episode of Season Ten. The first seven seasons had 22 episodes and the eight and ninth 20 each, right?

what about threads and CotG? (i honestly can't remember what they did with those) EDIT: counted. i think its the 6th or 7th, depending on how you count CotG.

[ReganX]

what about threads and CotG? (i honestly can't remember what they did with those)

"Children of the Gods" was initially shown as one episode, then split into two so I counted it as two. To the best of my knowledge, "Threads" has always been one episode, just a longer one.

[ParadoxRealities]

"Children of the Gods" was initially shown as one episode, then split into two so I counted it as two. To the best of my knowledge, "Threads" has always been one episode, just a longer one.

and there were still 20 eps in s8, even with threads long? (i think so). then you're right, six.

[esoap524]

Mitchell was one of many F-302 pilots who, along with the crew of the Prometheus, engaged Anubis' fleet in battle long enough to provide cover for SG-1. .

Because that entire post was too long to go thru bit by bit and my Stargate knowledge is insufficient to argue with you anyway, I just have one question...would it make any difference if some other pilot was chosen? Other than the existing team, none of whom apparently was planning or desiring to lead SG1 given that they'd scattered to the four winds, was there some other character whom the audience already knew who would have been preferable to lead the team?

And, if not, how would you have introduced a new lead character? Again, I'm not talking about Sam in charge because, for whatever reason, that wasn't in the cards and the storyline was that she'd gone to research and development. I'm just curious to know how other people would have handled that change.

Incidentally, I will read the post when I'm actually mostly awake. It looks interesting and enlightening.

[ParadoxRealities]

Because that entire post was too long to go thru bit by bit and my Stargate knowledge is insufficient to argue with you anyway, I just have one question...would it make any difference if some other pilot was chosen? Other than the existing team, none of whom apparently was planning or desiring to lead SG1 given that they'd scattered to the four winds, was there some other character whom the audience already knew who would have been preferable to lead the team?

actually yes, Dixon. but the problem with that argument is that we DIDN't know mitchell. we didn't know any of them. that entire intro was done in season nine, not eight. also, the entire "SG-1 (sam, daniel, teal'c) don't want to be on it) was done in s9, with no indication in s8. they shouldn't have picked a pilot at all, they should have picked an SG team commander, preferably sam.

And, if not, how would you have introduced a new lead character? Again, I'm not talking about Sam in charge because, for whatever reason, that wasn't in the cards and the storyline was that she'd gone to research and development. I'm just curious to know how other people would have handled that change.

IMO, it should have been in the cards, and nothing’s going to change that. the (lame) storyline was written BECAUSE it wasn't in the cards. but i think a lot of people, specifically the ones i know are pissed about the contrived and totally unrealistic to the military aspect would have liked Dixon. maybe not all us Samandans, but many more fans.

[ReganX]

Because that entire post was too long to go thru bit by bit and my Stargate knowledge is insufficient to argue with you anyway, I just have one question...would it make any difference if some other pilot was chosen? Other than the existing team, none of whom apparently was planning or desiring to lead SG1 given that they'd scattered to the four winds, was there some other character whom the audience already knew who would have been preferable to lead the team?

And, if not, how would you have introduced a new lead character? Again, I'm not talking about Sam in charge because, for whatever reason, that wasn't in the cards and the storyline was that she'd gone to research and development. I'm just curious to know how other people would have handled that change.

Incidentally, I will read the post when I'm actually mostly awake. It looks interesting and enlightening.

First of all, I don’t think that a new “lead” was necessary, or that it has been beneficial to the show to try to force a new character into the spotlight to the detriment of the established characters. The existing characters should have each been moved up one spot in the credits (except Michael Shanks, who has his “and”) and, if a fourth member for SG-1 was needed, he or she should have slotted between Christopher Judge and Beau Bridges, and the credits would have been more like those for Atlantis, without over-emphasizing one actor.

I firmly believe that the best course of action would have been to introduce Mitchell as a major, preferably one who would not make an appearance until after the halfway point of Season Nine, and had him as 2IC, somebody we could watch Sam guiding and training and then, a few years down the line - basically whenever Amanda Tapping wanted to leave or to take a reduced schedule as the new base commander - he could take over command of SG-1 as an established character, one we had seen learn and grow and, hopefully, come to like.

As far as none of the team “planning or desiring to lead SG1” goes, of course nobody was planning to lead SG-1, there was no need for them to. SG-1 already had a perfectly good commander and the only reason that the team were “scattered to the four winds” was to facilitate a ridiculously contrived plot device to insert Mitchell into the mix. Even taking Amanda Tapping’s pregnancy and brief absence into account, it would have been possible to work around her absence and to introduce a new character without writing her out of command.

Mitchell’s character was poorly introduced. Whether or not they intended it, the writers have made him somebody who did not deserve his position on SG-1. The only reason he is on the team is because he asked to be. If the part about Mitchell being offered any post he wanted – an offer that strongly suggests that somebody is pulling strings for him – had been replaced with Jack visiting the hospital, mentioning that he had read Mitchell’s file and that he had a job he might be interested in when he got better, or if Mitchell had applied to join the SGC while he was recovering and Jack or Landry approved his application, the story would be improved slightly.

The CMOH was a terrible idea, plain and simple.

Had any of the other pilots been the one chosen, my answer would be the same.

As I’ve said, I don’t consider it necessary, but hypothetically speaking, if it had been absolutely essential for another lead character to be introduced and for that character to be leader of SG-1, then I would have written Mitchell as somebody who could believably lead, somebody with more experience and a higher rank than Sam.

Ben Browder is forty-three, am I correct? He would have been forty-two at the beginning of Season Nine, old enough to play a full colonel, someone who had been in command of SG-Pick-A-Number for several years before being transferred to lead SG-1 in Sam’s absence. While the reasons for Sam’s initial loss of command would still be the work of the plot device fairies, it would at least be believable for her not to displace somebody who outranked her and had more experience commanding an SG team than she did.

This version of Mitchell would be straight-laced, fairly unbending in his opinions and by the book, accustomed to a team of military officers and a bit thrown by the different dynamics of SG-1. He would eventually mellow a little and learn to compromise when he had to, but there would always be some distance between him and the team, as well as some differences of opinion regarding procedure.

[ReganX]

actually yes, Dixon. but the problem with that argument is that we DIDN't know mitchell. we didn't know any of them. that entire intro was done in season nine, not eight. also, the entire "SG-1 (sam, daniel, teal'c) don't want to be on it) was done in s9, with no indication in s8. they shouldn't have picked a pilot at all, they should have picked an SG team commander, preferably sam.

I agree totally that Sam should have remained commander of SG-1. I don't care what the off-screen reasons for her being in command in Season Eight were, she was written as being in command and should have kept that position in Season Nine and beyond.

Jack chose to have Sam command SG-1, rather than bring in a higher ranking officer to lead. After seven years serving with her, I think that it would be fair to say that he knew her very well, her strengths and her weaknesses, and that he would not have entrusted her with command of SG-1, or with the lives of Daniel and Teal'c, if he had not believed that she was ready.

If Mitchell couldn't be introduced except as leader, then Mitchell should not have been introduced.