S10: Critique & Contemplation

[Skydiver]

Anyone else wish that somebody would borrow the timeship and travel back to 1969 to convince Mitchell Senior to be sterilized?

that's mean

but if i could go back i'd go back to whomever signed off on mitch's transfer papers and toss them in the shredder

[ReganX]

that's mean

but if i could go back i'd go back to whomever signed off on mitch's transfer papers and toss them in the shredder

The papers, not the one signing them, I trust.

That works too. As long as Mitchell never plays a part in the SGC, I don't object to his existence.

[Skydiver]

i can certainly deal with major mitchell. or lt colonel cam mitchell on sg-2

and yes, i'd shred the transfer papers, not the person. he was likely just following orders given by someone much higher on the food chain

[ReganX]

i can certainly deal with major mitchell. or lt colonel cam mitchell on sg-2

Lt Colonel Mitchell on another SG team in a supporting role would have been good, or Major Mitchell.

and yes, i'd shred the transfer papers, not the person. he was likely just following orders given by someone much higher on the food chain

Stupid General Magwitch!

[Albion]

I've just read the plot details for 200.

Just shoot me now.

Also...

Spoiler:

In 9 years they've only gone through the Gate 200 times? How is this possible?

Am I reading that bit wrong? (Always possible - recovering from a particularly vicious stomach bug and my brain is pretty much soggy right now )

Albion

[ReganX]

Spoiler:

In 9 years they've only gone through the Gate 200 times? How is this possible?

Spoiler:

Not sure, especially as the documentary in "Heroes" was to mark the 1,000th trip through the 'gate.

Even if it's only counting SG-1, it's difficult to count as Sam, Jack, Daniel and Teal'c were not all present for every trip each of them made offworld, Jack also had two years alomst entirely without 'gate travel when Sam, Daniel and Teal'c were on SG-1 without him. It's highly improbable that they would all have their 200th trip at the same time.

How many episodes did they not travel through the stargate, and how many episodes showed more than one trip? Unless they had few, if any, missions offscreen, their 200th trip through the stargate has been and gone.

[AGateFan]

I've just read the plot details for 200.

Just shoot me now.

Also...

Spoiler:

In 9 years they've only gone through the Gate 200 times? How is this possible?

Am I reading that bit wrong? (Always possible - recovering from a particularly vicious stomach bug and my brain is pretty much soggy right now )

Albion

Spoiler:

There have been 200 eps some with the team going through the even horizon more then once some with the team not going through at all. However there are 26 or so other stargate teams so there is no way in the real SG-1 universe that this is the 200th trip through the event horizon ("...mission which marks the 200th trip through the event horizon").

This is either a typo, a missunderstanding, SG-1 (mostly without Mitchell) 200th trip or Mitchells 200th trip (hes special so I am sure he is up to 200 by now). Of course this isnt the real sg-1 universe this is the bizzaro sg-1 universe and in this universe any thing is possible.

Remember the "is science required in science fiction" thread. A show doesn’t need real honest to god science but it does need to follow the science in the Universe in which it was created. Stargate now follows no science that was established and now it is just any writer’s whim. That is why just one of the reasons this show is now a plane old (and quite bad) sci fi show.

[Mr Prophet]

Pretty clearly, that definite article should be replaced with 'his'.

Other than that...D. Amn.

[chocdoc]

Pretty clearly, that definite article should be replaced with 'his'.

Other than that...D. Amn.

So we are to assume that Mitchell has gone off-world 199 times before this attempt in this episode to go off-world?

[Skydiver]

didn't teal'c say in an episode that he'd been to 134 planets???? i think it was in revisions.

134 planets would ROUGHLY mean 134 trips, although we all know that they take more than one trip per planet

[ParadoxRealities]

It occurred to me when I was watching Shadowplay again that given the situation his country/planet was in it shouldn't really be a surprise that he knows how to handle a weapon. Also Dr. Keiran imagines Jonas being fairly confident with a pistol which suggests some prior experience - given their closeness if Jonas never had any previous skill in that area it's seems a bit of a jump to believe otherwise.

i'm not sure if i buy that. it doesn't really make a difference either way though, Daniel had the same problem for a long time. i'm just more willing to give Daniel some leeway because he joined before combat was part of the job description and he's more of a field person than Jonas.

personally? i don't think jack accepted sam as anything other than the scientist he was saddled with until Solitudes. I think as they were stuck together, trying to survive and figure a way out that he truly respected her as an officer.

i think we agree, actually. he didn't truly believe in her for a while (solitudes makes sense), but he trusted her as a good soldier. i guess what i'm saying is that if Jonas had been in sam's position, jack would have trusted him even less, probably not at all until solitudes. with sam, there was the benefit of him knowing, fairly quickly, that she was more than just a scientist. primarily one, perhaps, but he didn't have to worry about her accidentally shooting herself in the foot. he seemed like he'd already progressed that far before Emancipation.

That's one of hte huge issues with Mitchell. He's done NOTHING to earn anyone's trust. Yes, sam was gone and mitch kinda fell into the job....but Mitch is more the 'friend of a friend who called in favors to get him into a position he's barely classified for' than a competant officer who earned his way into a plum assignment.

qualified?
and it happened right from the start. this is why i don't buy it when pros/semis say that TPTB will fix him in s10, and he just needs time to develop. they're not going to get rid of his backstory.

My point is, this backstory/introduction reminded me a lot of Mitchell. Mitchell was the guy who lead the mission that saved SG1 (forgive me, because I'm not an historian of this show, I'm merely going by memory). Carter was the scientist who fiddled with the gate, offscreen, and figured out more or less how it worked. Much like Carter, he read the files. She references something like that in one of the first four episodes (I'm netflixing the series). Anyway, his backstory/association/reason for serving on the team is filled off-screen, much like Carter's was.

the difference here is, CotG was the very first episode of the series. everything was offscreen or in the movie. and she didn't fiddle with the gate, she made the thing work. given recent events, they needed a gate expert (and more people in general), just like they needed Daniel before. she also proved her record VERY quickly, well within the first half of the season.
FFR, mitchell didn't lead the mission that saved SG-1. he led the F-302 contingent over antarctica when SG-1 saved the world.

When the original team was formed, Carter and Teal'c were much like Mitchell. They didn't have practical history. Carter had theory and Teal'c just needed a place to crash.

what theory? she made the stargate work, not to mention being a competent and experienced soldier. needed a place to crash? he was an alien general with more years combat experience in the enemy’s ranks than anyone else had been alive and was willing to give them everything he knew to help fight the Goa'uld. how is that not practical experience.
<wonders what kind of general would put an officer on a team just because he brought "enthusiasm" > you know, i bet someone like Hailey or Elliot would bring enthusiasm. skill too.

It is amazing how insulting this must be for every single person who has worked at the SGC and actually put their time in only to be passed over for some n00b with no clue just because he’s got connections. It’s like the boss giving his wife’s cousin a VP position.

imagine how they felt after OTG or Prototype or Stronghold. "he did WHAT?!?!"

[AGateFan]

snip
FFR, mitchell didn't lead the mission that saved SG-1. he led the F-302 contingent over antarctica when SG-1 saved the world. snip

This is exactly it. Hammond LEAD the mission that covered SG-1... where is his CMOH?

SG-1 actually saved the world.... where are their CMOH?

Hell, Jonas gave up the ability to live on his own homeworld to bring us a mineral that helped us build the Promethus which Hammond lead to help cover SG-1 to save the world.... where is his medal? In fact, he actually helped save the world once before joining SG-1 in Redemption... I didnt hear a lot of people going ooohhh jonas we soooo ooooowwwwweeee youuuuuuu. No, he did what he had to do and then he moved on. He grudgingly got the respect of SG-1.

I can see SG-1 giving Mitchell and ALL of the soilders that did the EXACT same thing as mitchell a lot of respect. But I still wouldnt expect them to invite them to JOIN SG-1 until they have been through all the SG training and proved themselves on another SG team just like everyone else. And to have some unexperienced guy (who doesnt even have diplomatic experience or any specialized experience at all) thrown into the leadership of SG-1 is, as I already said, an instult to the leaders and team members of SG-2,3,4,5,6,7.... oh yeah and Carter (who lost her job to some guy with less experience then her).

The entire Mitchell thing reeks of a political appointment. If they wrote THAT into the show I would buy it. But without that it is just lame, lame, lame writing.

[ReganX]

didn't teal'c say in an episode that he'd been to 134 planets???? i think it was in revisions.

134 planets would ROUGHLY mean 134 trips, although we all know that they take more than one trip per planet

268 trips, give or take - he has to travel back.

[ReganX]

this is why i don't buy it when pros/semis say that TPTB will fix him in s10, and he just needs time to develop. they're not going to get rid of his backstory.

It's too late for that. His backstory has already been established.

- He was one of many F-302 pilots involved in the fight against Antarctica, and technically he did less to defend SG-1 than some of the others did as he was shot down midway through the fight and they presumably carried on fighting without him.

- He was given a position on SG-1 because he asked for it. He was offered his choice of positions (something I consider extremely suspect) and he was the one who decided that he deserved to be on SG-1. It wasn't even a case of Jack visiting him in the hospital, saying that he'd read his file and was very impressed and that, once Mitchell was better, he had a job that he might be interested in.

- He got his position as leader of SG-1 due to Sam's conveniently timed absence from the SGC. He badgered her to leave a command position and Daniel and Teal'c to abandon their plans so that they could serve under his command. They refused, later returning to the SGC due to the situation with the Ori. In a later episode, Mitchell falsely accepted credit for "getting the band back together".

As far as his leadership abilities (or lack thereof) are concerned, he has had a season to demonstrate his fitness for command of SG-1 and, from where I'm sitting, he has failed miserably. It is unrealistic for him to suddenly change and become the kind of person who could be trusted to be on SG-1, let alone to lead them or for Sam, Daniel and Teal'c to fall in line and start to trust his "leadership" - unless, of course, all three of them get lobotomies.

[Albion]

This is exactly it. Hammond LEAD the mission that covered SG-1... where is his CMOH?

SG-1 actually saved the world.... where are their CMOH?

Good points. The system won't let me rep you meantime or I'd have given you green. I have, I must confess, never understood what great feat of heroics or courage Mitchell displayed to merit the rewards he was given. On screen, he pretty much seemed to be doing his job - fairly competently - just like all the other pilots there at the time. But what he did that was special or that made SG1 or the planet particularly indebited to him and him alone...well that just wasn't made clear to me at all.

It's too late for that. His backstory has already been established.

Excellent points, also, ReganX. Did get to green you. Unless they go for something completely Dallas-esque - perhaps it was all a covert secret mission a la Shades of Gray and Mitchell was just acting like a juvenile groupie all season because he was in league with the Asgard and is suddenly revealed in S10 as a true hero after all (yeah, right) - they can't reset much in the way of Mitchell's character now. So that one's pretty much a lame excuse on the part of his supporters, imo.

And you have to consider that things have gotten pretty ropey on a show if they're having to consider retro-grading not one but two characters after one season with them, don't you?

Glad I wasn't hallucinating on the 200 trips through the Gate thing. (If I AM going to hallucinate because of a stomach bug I can think of better scenarios... <coughJackO'Neillandwhippedcream<cough>). I think it being Mitchell's 200th trip makes much more sense, Mr. Prophet, I agree. In Tokra II, Sam tells Jacob that she travels through the Gate to other planets pretty much two or three times a week. Given that there are several other teams also making regular trips, you'd figure that the other days of the week when SG1 aren't on a mission the other teams must be filling in some of that time at least. And that would surely only increase as the years went on and more teams were created. (Can't recall how many teams there were in S2).

Albion