S10: Critique & Contemplation

[hedwig]

Or maybe it's because TPTB had no idea what to do with the character aside from knowing they wanted her out of the way so the shiny new action hero could take command of the team.

Apparently this has been admitted to by at least one Exec. Producer/writer.

[Mandysg1]

But if Sam was a scientist first, why did she not go back to R&D/Area 51 after the Ori threat was neutralized? Why did she take two different command positions (Altantis and the Hammond) over science?

On one hand, it could be because in the military you don't really get a choice, you go where you superiors send you; where they think you'll do the most good. Interesting then that Sam's superiors thought she had more to offer as a commander than a scientist...on the other, maybe it's because Sam is a career military officer who is proud of her rank and service and wants to continue to climb up the ladder...

Or maybe it's because TPTB had no idea what to do with the character aside from knowing they wanted her out of the way so the shiny new action hero could take command of the team.

Well, Sam's competence did make Mitchell look bad...but then again, most of what he did made him look bad

[hedwig]

Well, Sam's competence did make Mitchell look bad...but then again, most of what he did made him look bad

Maybe that was their plan all along????? And didn't realize that in the process it would just wind up making the original 3 members of SG1 look sooooo much better!!!

No???? Oh well.

[EvenstarSRV]

Yes she was pleased and she served with honor but it was not her passion why I say this do you remember Spirits from season 2 when she led the team because Jack was hurt she did not impress me she was a fish out of water AT was wonderful she showed vulnerability that we had not seen with Sam she was unsure and uncomfortable Sam has never had that problem with her science stuff 48 hours, Chain Reaction I could go on. In Season 8 the episode Icon when Daniel was trapped on another planet Sam came back and reported to Jack she did not stay there and try to get him as a military leader she doesn't have the same presence as a scientific leader

Re Spirits, that was Sam's first time leading SG-1, of course she was going to be a bit unsure. But then we get Nightwalkers with Sam cool, collected and in command, Evolution, Resurrection, storming the base in Icon, It's Good to be King, leading the troops in Stronghold, leading the rescue in Reunion, commanding the Phoenix in Last Man, etc.

Re Icon, IIRC, Daniel was captured when the rebel guy staged the coup, and then he wouldn't let the SGC look for Daniel. Sam went back to report Daniel missing, then continued working on a way around the rebel guy until she was able to make contact with Daniel and coordinate an attack strategy. How is that not being military-minded?

And Sam has been unsure and uncertain in scientific situations as well, not fixing the DHD in Solitudes, not knowing how to save Teal'c symbiote in Bane, uneasy about blowing up a sun in Exodus, not know how to fix the gate in Redemption, not being able to figure out the archway in Paradise Lost, etc. And in 48 hours she was uncertain if she could get Teal'c out of the gate.

The point I am trying to make is some of you give me the impression that that Sam was a AF officer who could do science but I think it was the other way around she was scientist who was also in the AF why do I say that as some one who lives with someone who is a scientist in training (my sister is a computer programmer still in college) they are a different than us normal humans it is a drive with them so for Sam to get her PH.D tells me that science is her passion why did she join the military well here in the U.S. the military is the largest college scholarship provider and when my sister was still in HS she had to take the military test and got a high score on some part of it that had to do with science and they heavily recruited her but she refused and when I say heavily recruited they tried several times to get her even when she was already in college they tried it was only when she told them off on the phone did they stop. Sam loved her country there is no doubt but I don't think she was screwed out of the SG-1 leader job because that was not her goal if she was just military person and not a scientist then yes she was screwed but that was not the case. I must go again hopefully I can do this tomorrow.

I see Sam as both a scientist and a military officer, with passion for both. She's not just a scientist and she's not just a military officer. As such, I see her careers goals involving both aspects, wanting to succeed scientifically as well as militarily. Her drive to earn her PhDs shows her passion for science, just as her drive to advance through the ranks (Captain to Colonel in about 10ish years) shows a passion for military service.

Also, both of my siblings as well as most of my friends are scientists or scientists-in-training, but it's hardly as if they do not have passion for other subjects or activities. One deferred attending MIT so he could do Teach for America, and others deferred grad school so they could do relief work in South America, India, and Bangladesh.

But ultimately, yeah, it's so much easier to say Mitchell was just being a nice guy and taking the burdens of command off of Sam, who apparently cares so little about serving in the military that she's stayed in it for 20+ years.

[slurredspeech]

Completely agreed with every single word of EvenstarSRV's post, so I won't address the entire post since she summed it up so coherently.

they are a different than us normal humans

No. They're really not. Or are as much as any person is different from the other. Also, more importantly, not all scientists are the same. Seriously.

if she was just military person and not a scientist then yes she was screwed but that was not the case.

So, wait a second. She had 'this other thing', another area of expertise - whereas Mitchell was 'just' a soldier - so it was only fair to give him the command? Had Carter only been a soldier then it would have been (more) unfair? How? She fought and served as an officer one way or the other.

that was not her goal

For the sake of the argument *sigh* let's presume it wasn't. I will repeat myself here -- they still wouldn't have given Mitchell the command. I don't know how much clearer I can get this point across. The military will appoint the most capable person for the job. Mitchell wasn't it. Carter was leading SG-1 in S8 (presumably against her will? no matter). The AF appointed her once, based on her experience and skills. They would do it again. Sometimes - and here's a shocker - officers do not get the postings they prefer. No, really.
Or, had they not appointed her, they would have appointed someone equally apt for the job. In what universe does this add up to Mitchell?

And that's just based on the premise that your view of Carter the Officer is correct. A view I strongly disagree with.

[Melora]

The scientists who join the military to get scholarship money do not usually stay in the military. They serve their time, get their money, get their degree, and get out. Why? Because they prefer getting cushy jobs in research facilities that pay them huge amounts of money. Most of the scientists and engineers that I personally know who joined the Army or Navy did this. And after hearing what they make it makes me wish I had actually liked my science classes more.

In contrast, my dad (a scientist) served in the National Guard to get money for college and stayed in it for years. I have a feeling he stayed because liked being an officer and firing those large artillery field guns. My point is that you do not stay in the military if you do not really like being in the military, whether you are scientist or clarinet player (yes, I know a clarinet player in the Guard too).

If Sam really cared mostly about science and didn’t care as much about being an officer, she would have served her six years and then resigned her commission to work in the private sector like so many AFA grads before her. They do not force you stay in the military, nor do they really pay enough to provide an economic incentive to stay (at least for scientists and tech people).

[Skydiver]

it's llike our engineers

many fresh out of school sign up with the state DOT to get on the job training and experience, along with some networking, etc...and a good chunk of them find private sector jobs and quit within 10 years

those that stay don't stay for the money, it's cause they like being where they are

I would imagine that Sam primarily joined the military, a) cause of jacob, b) a military background gives you a headsup getting into NASA and the shuttle program
(it's also possible that, as the kid of a general with good grades, her education at the academy was cheaper than a private school)

when the shuttle crashed, she chose to stay. and, IMHO, with the SGC she chose to stay because she had access to far cooler stuff IN the military than out of it.

that said, with all she's learned abuot advanced tech, she could take that knowledge and make a fortune and a half in the tech field. All it'd take is owning a couple of patents and she'd be set for life

[slurredspeech]

and, IMHO, with the SGC she chose to stay because she had access to far cooler stuff IN the military than out of it.

Yeah, though she could have resigned from the military - if she so wished - and still stay and work in the SGC as a scientist, no?

[Skydiver]

i would think she could if she wanted to. Of course, if she were to resign, she'd just be a civilian consultant. she'd lose command points.

honestly, as much as i like sam, i do have to think that her character could easily make it to general before she'd decide to retire. what she'd need is command 'credit' tokeep going up the ranks. which is what atlantis got her, what the Hammond will get her.

if sam was just in it for cool toys, she'd have resigned a long time ago. her rep and 'way' with alien tech would guarantee her a civvie job.

[Mandysg1]

Yeah, though she could have resigned from the military - if she so wished - and still stay and work in the SGC as a scientist, no?

Look at Rodney McKay and Dr. Lee...so I'd say yes she could have IF she wanted to

[suse]

Sam loved her country there is no doubt but I don't think she was screwed out of the SG-1 leader job because that was not her goal if she was just military person and not a scientist then yes she was screwed but that was not the case.

How about I take this same reasoning to Mitchell? His goad was to fly jets like his Dad. So he joined the AF to do that. He shows no interest in leadership, even in Avalon pt 1. He wanted to be on the team, not lead it. So why should he lead? He is a pilot first.

suse

[Mr Prophet]

if sam was just in it for cool toys, she'd have resigned a long time ago. her rep and 'way' with alien tech would guarantee her a civvie job.

This is an issue I like to raise in the ship discussions. Whatever feelings Sam may or may not have for Jack, she clearly loves being in the Air Force more. Likewise, whatever her love of pure science, the fact that she isn't a pure scientist shows that the military is just as important for her.

In Season 2 she is an uncertain young officer, uncomfortable in her first serious command. In Season 3 she is aware that the flagship team needs more gravitas than her oak leaves will bring to the position, which is not the same thing.

Heh. Character development. Remember when we had that in Stargate?

By Season 6 she was an experinenced leader, quite capable of leading the team during Jack's absence, although her judgement was less than stellar when a friend was in danger and beyond her help (Paradise Lost was not Sam's friend). When she takes full command of her three-strong team in Season 8, there's really not much of a reason for her not to. She has the age, experience, gravitas and clarity to do so; it's just a shame that the need to keep pushing Jack to the fore periodically robs her of opportunities.

It's also a shame that they didn't use Season 8 to introduce SG-1's new captain, or even Major Cam Mitchell, working on the F-302 program as a consultant while he recovers from his crash in the Antarctic, for which action he was modestly decorated. Just imagine that; if the new guy in Season 9 had been someone we ha actually seen before.

But back on track; Season 8 Sam was a leader, there was no reason for Season 9/10 Sam not to be. I honestly feel that the character disservice began with sticking her in a research post in Area-51, since that was what SG-1 got her away from. Remember in Children of the Gods, when she's telling people that she should have gone through the Gate instead of Daniel? That didn't suggest that she would be considering the next seven seasons of military adventuring an irritating delay in her scientific career. Myself, I would have been happier for her maternity leave to be written off as 'off overseeing the shakedown cruise of a new battlecruiser' or 'charting some weird anomaly which will bring us into contact with the new enemy without us having to rely on some dodgy tech brought in by captain untrustworthy'.

[Skydiver]

It's also a shame that they didn't use Season 8 to introduce SG-1's new captain, or even Major Cam Mitchell, working on the F-302 program as a consultant while he recovers from his crash in the Antarctic, for which action he was modestly decorated. Just imagine that; if the new guy in Season 9 had been someone we ha actually seen before.

this, oh yeah.

with all the kerfluffle of s6 and daniel and the writers didn't get a clue of 'mmhm, wonder if we should intro some minor supporting characters we can bring forward if any more of our leads leave/take time off'???

Like dude, the writing wasn't only on the wall, it was in bright neon colors.

Part of me did wonder if SG-13 was a half-hearted effort at that. but then they got an episode and were never seen again.

in my opinion - which is likely easier said than done - about s5 or 6 they should have made up another team that became sg-1's defacto backup. then when you have a situation like splitting up the team to run multiple units at once, instead of a perpetual 3:1, 2:2, 2:2:1 ratio of breakups like we had in seasons 7-10, we could have had another person in there. break up the monotony of predictable pairings (like in season 10, it was almost ALWAYS, cam/teal'c, daniel/vala, sam/laptop)

bring in another personality or two to give themselves more opportunity and more to play with

as to sam's maternity leave - you know, i'm not objective, but the feeling i seem to get was frustration at the inconvenient timing, her being gone along with rick being gone. all of a sudden the writers are down to 2 characters. and neither of those characters really have a storyline/arc to carry 6 eps all by themselves. and they can't say taht they didn't know something was going to happen. Amanda had been trying to get pregnant for years so they knew they'd have to deal with maternity leave - fates willing - at some point in time, yet they seemed to have no plans in place at all. And they had to have known that rick was getting itchy to move on.

they knew these issues/changes were coming, but seemed to never want to think about them, and then got caught off guard when both things came to pass.

then it felt to me like they didn't care if the explanation was rational. they didn't seem to care if it made sense. (i got the same vibe with cameron and his 'issues')

tptb seemed to have this 'don't bog us down with details, just watch and enjoy' attitude. so they didn't seem to care that what they found convenient made little to no sense for the characters.

[poundpuppy29]

it's llike our engineers

many fresh out of school sign up with the state DOT to get on the job training and experience, along with some networking, etc...and a good chunk of them find private sector jobs and quit within 10 years

those that stay don't stay for the money, it's cause they like being where they are

I would imagine that Sam primarily joined the military, a) cause of jacob, b) a military background gives you a headsup getting into NASA and the shuttle program
(it's also possible that, as the kid of a general with good grades, her education at the academy was cheaper than a private school)

when the shuttle crashed, she chose to stay. and, IMHO, with the SGC she chose to stay because she had access to far cooler stuff IN the military than out of it.

that said, with all she's learned abuot advanced tech, she could take that knowledge and make a fortune and a half in the tech field. All it'd take is owning a couple of patents and she'd be set for life

that's my point tried to give you green

i would think she could if she wanted to. Of course, if she were to resign, she'd just be a civilian consultant. she'd lose command points.

honestly, as much as i like sam, i do have to think that her character could easily make it to general before she'd decide to retire. what she'd need is command 'credit' tokeep going up the ranks. which is what atlantis got her, what the Hammond will get her.

if sam was just in it for cool toys, she'd have resigned a long time ago. her rep and 'way' with alien tech would guarantee her a civvie job.

I agree I believe her love of country is why she stayed in the military civic duty. It just drives me crazy when some can cast aside her PH.D in science and make the military #1

I like Sam always have but I feel like I have to justify myself in this fandom when it comes to Sam and that bothers me.

I also think some of you take the episode Proving Ground way too seriously I think that was just 1 way into the SG program not the only way.

I really don't think Cam was a bad choice for leader sorry if you disagree but I think it has less to do with Cam than it has to do with you if you were not willing to accept a new male lead when the original male lead left then this discussion will go in circles.

They should of had a new character in season 8 but then how do you focus on the team when the star of the show is not on the team anymore.

If SGA is any indication it doesn't matter if the SG fandom knows the character before hand or not IE Elizabeth being replaced by Sam there was fandom problems just like with Daniel and Jonas from what I can see.

[Skydiver]

I think cam, as a character, certainly could have been at least a part of the team, potentially leader. But not as they wrote him.

If they wanted to play up the 'youthful' angle, make him a major and have sam in charge. If they wanted to play up the 'new boss' make him older and a colonel and have the chain of command clear.

it's the whole co-leaders, same rank, no experience vs a decade of experience oxymoron that they made that - to me anyway - doomed him. In trying to make him fit a half dozen roles, they made him such an uneven mismatch that he was just a mess.

Ben did as best he could but cameron was as poorly written as colonel Edwards from Enemy Mine who was OTT belligerent and stupid and seemed to have graduated from the George Armstrong Custer school of military tactics....simply to make sure he provided an antagonistic foil for Daniel. Edwards character was massacred (pun intended) to facilitate the 'Daniel saving the downtrodden Unas' story.

as a character Cameron started season 9 with a ton of potential. But then as he was written differently to fit whatever role they needed, never got a plot arc/story arc, he went from potential new lead to 'new guy whose name is first in the credits but doesn't even carry a plot line' and he was almost schizophrenic in how he was written differently almost every week to make the plot work. the character was continually sacrificed to make a story work.