S10: Critique & Contemplation

[jckfan55]

^in one of Sam's Atlantis episodes she commented that the military protocol was relaxed.

[EvenstarSRV]

90% of MOH medals are awarded posthumously.

Charles Durning, who starred as the MOH recipient in that NCIS episode, served in WWII. If you read about some of his experiences, you can get a taste of what he went through. He received a Silver Star for his actions, which is the third highest honor possible.

Charles Durning
Born: 28-Feb-1923
Birthplace: Highland Falls, NY
Military service: US Army (Ranger, WWII)

Charles Durning joined the US Army when he was 17 years old, and during World War II he was seriously wounded by a mine and suffered severe bayonet wounds in hand-to-hand combat with Nazis. His unit was eventually defeated in Belgium by an SS Panzer unit, but Durning escaped and was spared the fate met by many of his friends -- the infamous Malmedy massacre, in which German officer Joachim Peiper had over 100 American prisoners shot dead without warning as they stood in a field. On 6 June 1944, Durning was with Allied troops for the invasion of German-occupied France in the Normandy landings. For his military service, he was awarded three Purple Hearts and a Silver Star. He later had a long career as a movie actor.

Now compare that description with Mitchell's actions for which he received the MOH. No real comparison.

Oh cool, thanks for the info! I'm just getting into NCIS via reruns and I really liked that episode!

I love that episode. The MPs are ordered to take Durning’s character into custody and all he has to do is show them his MoH and they immediately stand at attention as a sign of respect.

Fortunately, NCIS has military veterans working on the show as writers and producers. Although having a military advisor is nice, there are a few times SG-1 could have used someone on the writing staff with more knowledge of the U.S. military. The advisors can’t be there all the time and the writers don't always listen to them anyway.

I also think that the AF has different priorities when looking at the show. It amazes me that the AF made a huge fuss over one of the extras on one of the ships having her hair down, and yet they didn’t question the logic of Mitchell receiving the MoH. They also made a fuss about AT’s hair in Season 4 and JF’s hair on SGA. Yet, they had no problem with an AF command placing a former thief and con artist on their flagship team.

It seems the AF was more concerned with the physical appearance of the actors and extras (and the frat regs of course) than with major story elements that went against basic military procedure. I guess it really is all about the hair for them.

I think with Sheppard's hair, Lenic said something like the AF not caring too much about military protocol in Atlantis because it was in another galaxy. Not sure how they got away with Vala on the team, the Lam-Landry stuff, co-leaders, etc on SG-1 though.

With the MOH, we never even saw the medal did we? And I don't think anyone ever outright said that Mitchell had received it or showed him wearing it either, it was just strongly implied with Sam describing the medal and then saying 'On behalf of the president...' at his bedside. So maybe that's how they got it around the AF Advisor, since Sam and Jack's Air Medals were handled quite differently.

[Skydiver]

trivia...yeah, it's off wiki, but close enough and i'm too lazy to look further

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medal_of_Honor

The U.S. Army Medal of Honor was first authorized by a joint resolution of Congress on July 12, 1862. The specific authorizing statute was 10 U.S.C. § 3741, which states:
“ The President may award, and present in the name of Congress, a medal of honor of appropriate design, with ribbons and appurtenances, to a person who while a member of the Army, distinguished himself conspicuously by gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty.[36]
”


Later authorizations created similar medals for other branches of the service.
The Medal of Honor confers special privileges on its recipients. By law, recipients have several benefits:


• Each Medal of Honor recipient may have his or her name entered on the Medal of Honor Roll (38 U.S.C. § 1560). Each person whose name is placed on the Medal of Honor Roll is certified to the United States Department of Veterans Affairs as being entitled to receive the special pension of US$1,027 per month above and beyond any military pensions or other benefits for which they may be eligible. As of December 1, 2004, the pension is subject to cost-of-living increases.

• Enlisted recipients of the Medal of Honor are entitled to a supplemental uniform allowance.
• Recipients receive special entitlements to air transportation under the provisions of DOD Regulation 4515.13-R.

• Special identification cards and commissary and exchange privileges are provided for Medal of Honor recipients and their eligible dependents.

• Fully qualified children of recipients are eligible for admission to the United States military academies without regard to the nomination and quota requirements.

• Recipients receive a 10% increase in retired pay under 10 U.S.C. § 3991.

• Those awarded the medal after October 23, 2002, also receive a Medal of Honor Flag. The law also specifies that all 103 living prior recipients also receive the flag.(14 U.S.C. § 505).

• As with all medals, retired personnel may wear the Medal of Honor on "appropriate" civilian clothing. Regulations also specify that recipients of the Medal of Honor are allowed to wear the uniform "at their pleasure" with standard restrictions on political, commercial, or extremist purposes; other former members of the armed forces may do so only at certain ceremonial occasions.[40][41]

Saluting

• In the United States Coast Guard it is customary for a Medal of Honor recipient to always be saluted, no matter what the rank.[42]

• Recipients are always greeted and saluted before non-recipients are greeted or saluted.

Other privileges and courtesies

• Many states offer distinctive Medal of Honor vehicle license plates to recipients without additional charges or fees.

• Living Medal of Honor recipients are often invited to Presidential Inaugurations and accompanying festivities.

Legal protection

Until late 2006, the Medal of Honor was the only service decoration afforded special protection under federal law to prevent it from being imitated or privately sold. The Stolen Valor Act of 2005, enacted December 20, 2006, extended federal protection to include false verbal, written, or physical claims to other military decorations, service medals, or military badges to which a person is not entitled.[43][44]


The Medal of Honor on display

All Medals of Honor are issued in the original only, by the Department of Defense, to a recipient. Misuse of the medal, including unauthorized manufacture or wear, is punishable by a fine up to $100,000 and imprisonment up to one year pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 704(b). After the Army redesigned its medal in 1903, a patent was issued (United States Patent #D37,236) to legally prevent others from making the medal. When the patent expired, the Federal government enacted a law making it illegal to produce, wear, or distribute the Medal of Honor without proper authority. A number of veterans' organizations and private companies devote themselves to exposing those who falsely claim to have received the Medal of Honor.[45]

[edit] Enforcement

HLI Lordship Industries Inc., a former Medal of Honor contractor, was fined in 1996 for selling 300 fake medals for US$75 each.[46]

Also that year, Fort Lauderdale, Florida resident Jackie Stern was convicted of wearing a medal to which he was not entitled; instead of six months in jail, a federal judge sentenced him to serve one year's probation and to write a letter of apology to each of the then-living 171 actual recipients of the medal; the letter was also published in the local newspaper.[47]
In 2003, Edward Fedora and Gisela Fedora were charged with violating 18 U.S.C. § 704(b), Unlawful Sale of a Medal of Honor, for selling medals awarded to U.S. Navy Seaman Robert Blume (for action in the Spanish-American War) and to U.S. Army First Sergeant George Washington Roosevelt (for action in the Civil War) to an FBI agent.[48] Edward Fedora, a Canadian businessman,[49] pleaded guilty and was sentenced to prison;[50] Gisela Fedora's status is unknown.

---

that one law about not making fakes is probably why we didn't see what sam gave him. and NCIS probably had to get special permission to have a character wear it

[Melora]

Oh cool, thanks for the info! I'm just getting into NCIS via reruns and I really liked that episode!



I think with Sheppard's hair, Lenic said something like the AF not caring too much about military protocol in Atlantis because it was in another galaxy. Not sure how they got away with Vala on the team, the Lam-Landry stuff, co-leaders, etc on SG-1 though.

With the MOH, we never even saw the medal did we? And I don't think anyone ever outright said that Mitchell had received it or showed him wearing it either, it was just strongly implied with Sam describing the medal and then saying 'On behalf of the president...' at his bedside. So maybe that's how they got it around the AF Advisor, since Sam and Jack's Air Medals were handled quite differently.

Wait a minute....

You're right. Perhaps it was just a hallucination. Maybe he only thought he received the MoH from Sam. We never hear about it again except in that one scene. It's possible he was just high on the drugs they were feeding him and he imagined the whole thing.

After all, why would they choose Sam to give him a medal that is normally given by the President? They would have at least sent the AF Chief of Staff.

[Skydiver]

not to mention getting it and having to hide the how and why

poor medal choice

they pushed too hard to make him special.

[Mandysg1]

Wait a minute....

You're right. Perhaps it was just a hallucination. Maybe he only thought he received the MoH from Sam. We never hear about it again except in that one scene. It's possible he was just high on the drugs they were feeding him and he imagined the whole thing.

After all, why would they choose Sam to give him a medal that is normally given by the President? They would have at least sent the AF Chief of Staff.

My memory of S9 is not very good...as I only watched it once But didn't Walter mention the medal he won, when Cam was...feeling the gate for the first time

[suse]

, TPTB's desperate desire to show Mitchell as the hero, the man, the leader even though he hadn't even seen the Stargate (and don't even get me started on the whole MoH thing), even the humor dropped down to cheesy sexual innuendo and Spaceballs rip-offs.

p.s. What SS said ^

Oh, that MoH thing drove me nuts. NO WAY was anything he did worth it. Not if JAck and Hammond didn't get one too. And there is no indication they did. But then, they weren't being promoted at The Bestest Hero Evah who must be worthy of having our intrepid (not not leading man material - especially the girl) team follow him.

Just a note: I LOVE Spaceballs. Really. As much as raspberry jam. That type of humor has it's place. But it's place is not in SG-1. Or at least it wasn't.

suse

[suse]

Wonders how this could possibly in any universe merit an MoH.

Also, isn't Stronghold the one where we find out he accidentally destroyed a convoy of civilians? Or is that in another episode? And I think it was his father that crashed a plane in a test flight, which resulted in the permanent injury to his legs. But since I rarely watch any of these episodes, my memory could be faulty.

There is no way one would get a MoH for crashing a test flight. For that matter, once one goes into secret ops, one knows one WILL NOT GET the awards that the more straight-forward missions will get. It's what one does in service of one's country.

While it's a shame he took out civilians, that didn't bother me. (Well, it did, but not to dislike the character.) In war, bad things happen. It was an accident.

It's what he did later, when he disobeyed the mission commander's order because he was 'having a bad day' that really threw me for a loop. That wasn't bravery, it was stupidity and foolishness. Sam and Daniel had to break cover and save his hide. He should have had the book thrown at him.

suse

[Melora]

My memory of S9 is not very good...as I only watched it once But didn't Walter mention the medal he won, when Cam was...feeling the gate for the first time

Nope.

The writers left it completely vague, as they so love to do.

TECHNICIAN
Who's that?

HARRIMAN
Lieutenant Colonel Cameron Mitchell.

HARRIMAN
Two years ago. Dog fight over Antarctica. SG-1 found the Ancient Outpost. Took out Anubis's fleet.

TECHNICIAN
(awed tone)
That's him?

HARRIMAN
That's him.

So in my corner of the SG universe, Cam never received the MoH, Daniel never verbally abused Vala, and Thor is still alive (although I haven't found a logical explanation for that one yet).

[EvenstarSRV]

My memory of S9 is not very good...as I only watched it once But didn't Walter mention the medal he won, when Cam was...feeling the gate for the first time

Well, I scanned the Avalon transcripts and this is the only time the CMOH is mentioned:

*From Mitchell's POV in a hospital bed*

CARTER: The congressional medal of honor is the highest award for valor in action against an enemy force that can be bestowed upon an individual serving in the armed forces of the united states of America. On behalf of the president…

No actual medal, no ceremony, and Sam never actually says that Mitchell is receiving the medal, or what he did to receive it, it's just very strongly implied he got it for his part in the Antarctica battle.

With Jack and Sam's Air Medals, it's directly stated by Hammond and Jacob that they are receiving the medals, plus the whole ceremony and seeing Hammond pining the medals while saying:

HAMMOND: Colonel Jack O'Neill, Captain Samantha Carter, you have distinguished yourself by heroism involving voluntary risk of life. Against impossible odds, with only the help of your team members Teal'c and Dr Daniel Jackson, you destroyed both Goa'uld spacecraft that were poised to attack this world. Your exemplary courage and heroism reflect great credit upon yourself and the United States Air Force.

It's just struck me how much of a difference there is between how the medals were given. For Sam and Jack, they mentioned them and the Air Force by name, as well as the heroic act for which they earned the medal. For Mitchell, they don't do any of that. I can see that being a sort of technicality the writers could have used to get in the CMOH past the AF advisor. "Well, we never actually say he got the MOH, but if people want to read between the lines..."

And even if they couldn't shoot a whole ceremony for Mitchell, couldn't they have easily changed Sam's lines to 'Lt. Colonel Cameron Mitchell, you have distinguished yourself by heroism involving voluntary risk of life. Against impossible odds, you destroyed Goa'uld spacecraft that were attacking SG-1, etc, etc?'

So yeah, I like that hallucination idea better.

[hedwig]

There is no way one would get a MoH for crashing a test flight. For that matter, once one goes into secret ops, one knows one WILL NOT GET the awards that the more straight-forward missions will get. It's what one does in service of one's country.

While it's a shame he took out civilians, that didn't bother me. (Well, it did, but not to dislike the character.) In war, bad things happen. It was an accident.

It's what he did later, when he disobeyed the mission commander's order because he was 'having a bad day' that really threw me for a loop. That wasn't bravery, it was stupidity and foolishness. Sam and Daniel had to break cover and save his hide. He should have had the book thrown at him.

suse

Exactly.

And as has been said, why did he get this honor for taking out one alkesh over Antarctica and then getting shot down and his co-pilot (or whatever they are called) being killed in the process - when what Jack did was way more heroic, as was what Hammond and everyone on the Prometheus did. Mitchell did not save SG1 on that mission (in spite of Daniel telling him SG1 "owed him" for that), and yet that's all we kept hearing about him from others later on.

And what he did in Stronghold was not only stupid and irresponsible and should have gotten him in all sorts of trouble ... he could have gotten Sam and Daniel killed or at the least seriously injured because of his stupidity over having a "bad day". They've all had bad days at one time or another without managing to act as recklessly as he did.

[EvenstarSRV]

So in my corner of the SG universe, Cam never received the MoH, Daniel never verbally abused Vala, and Thor is still alive (although I haven't found a logical explanation for that one yet).

When SG-1 found the crystals with Thor's consciousness in Descent, the Asgard made a copy of it before they transferred it into his new body. Then Thor downloaded it into a spare body and kept it in stasis, so while the copy and the rest of the Asgard were committing suicide, the original was off on his own in a ship he affectionately calls the Samantha Carter.

[Melora]

When SG-1 found the crystals with Thor's consciousness in Descent, the Asgard made a copy of it before they transferred it into his new body. Then Thor downloaded it into a spare body and kept it in stasis, so while the copy and the rest of the Asgard were committing suicide, the original was off on his own in a ship he affectionately calls the Samantha Carter.

I like it!

Now if he would only come back for the third movie. Think of it...

Sam is on the Hammond doing deep space reconnaissance when a member of her crew spots a strange, yet familiar-looking, ship. Sam hails the other ship. The commander of the other ship answers and guess who appears on the screen?

That would sell the movie right there.

[Duskofdead]

Certainly not. But I think, objectively, we can agree that the overall level of writing for those last two seasons was indeed sub par compared to previous seasons. And the ratings kind of prove this.

I think I question the degree to which either fans or ratings can accurately separate the quality of the writing from two confounders, a) the fact that the show was in its 9th and 10th year, b) the fact that a very major and possibly the favorite character had left the show.

I could agree I would have done different things with seasons 9 and 10, I just think people start to meander into hyperbole that 9 and 10 were so awful, given the circumstances I could see a thousand ways it could have been much worse. The last couple seasons of SGA, anyone? And the writing and production of SGA got aimless and bored after just 3 years, SG-1 remained solid for at least 8, and possibly 10 depending on your opinion.

And I'm also one of the people who doesn't feel this way just because Jack left. I was honestly willing to give it a try. And had they done the transition to the new team, and the new plots, well I'd be all over it. However, sloppy writing and the disservice they had done to the characters (oh, the character assassination; oy ) turned me completely off. It was no longer the SG-1 I knew and loved. Again, not the original team SG-1. Just all the name stood for.

Oh, and my snark is in no way directed at you, I should point out. It's merely my coping mechanism. (How very... dramatic of me. Hah.)

Everyone's going to have a different opinion and I would never say yours is "wrong." However I think it's far too easy for people to just broad-brush lambast the last two years as "sloppy" when I doubt anything I can think up that they could have done would have pleased a majority, honestly.

[slurredspeech]

I think I question the degree to which either fans or ratings can accurately separate the quality of the writing from two confounders, a) the fact that the show was in its 9th and 10th year,...

But. But. What is the indicator of quality if not the ratings and the opinions of people who watch the show?
And I'm in no way disputing the fact that it's harder to write for the show in its ninth year than its second but that's kind of beside the point, methinks. If the quality is deteriorating and it doesn't get any better, I'll switch to something else. I won't contemplate all the ways in which the writers have it tough and make excuses for gaping plot holes, bad characterization and foul humor, nor will I sympathy-enjoy it because it's the 9th season and it's difficult for them to get it right.

I could agree I would have done different things with seasons 9 and 10, I just think people start to meander into hyperbole that 9 and 10 were so awful, given the circumstances I could see a thousand ways it could have been much worse.

Well, yeah, sure. Mitchell's grandma could have joined SG-1 as an honorary member. Vala and Daniel could have had babies. Mitchell and Lam could have had babies. Teal'c and Landry could have retired together on a farm off-world where they'd spend their time braiding each other's leg hair. There are millions of ways in which they could have messed up worse, but that doesn't mean they'd done good, or that I should applaud them for it.

However I think it's far too easy for people to just broad-brush lambast the last two years as "sloppy" when I doubt anything I can think up that they could have done would have pleased a majority, honestly.

Why? Because of the 9th year business and Jack/RDA leaving? I have to disagree again. If they'd tried and gotten creative and told good stories, people would have watched and appreciated it. There's no consipiracy going on amongst the viewers. Give them good TV and they'll eat it up. Give them cheap entertainment and they'll soon switch the channel. It's as simple as that.