S10: Critique & Contemplation

[pittsburghgirl]

Thank you! The Ori and their followers as villians are far too real-life for me to enjoy, and I would prefer not to have them invade my few hours of escapism, as well. Seeing them on screen just causes me to be frustrated in the same way I get frustrated every day reading the editorial pages in my local newspaper. And sorry, but being frustrated is not fun. Perhaps it will be a bit cathartic once SG-1 figures out a way to defeat them. But even then, the unreality of whatever defeat they may concoct will be so utterly unbelievable that I dare say it won't be particularly satisfying. There will still be terrorists on earth who want to blow people up, and I will still be living in a world where many people consider homosexuals to be responsible for Hurricane Katrina, etc., etc., etc.

Even as a metaphor, the Ori fail, because whatever means are ultimately used to defeat them on the show, there is no way to defeat their counterparts here on earth. Religious extremism has existed for as long as humanity has worshipped gods, and it isn't going away anytime soon. Unfortunately, the people who might appreciate and understand the metaphor being presented on the show are probably not the people who might benefit from the message presented. TPTB aren't revealing anything new to me, nor, I dare say, to most of their audience. Religious extremists are not likely to be big fans of science fiction and the open-mindedness that is necessary to appreciate it.

Choosing religious extremists as the villians may be topical, but it's not very creative, and I personally don't find it very entertaining.

let's face it-it is a very disturbing storyline. i know that historically scifi has been a way of making social commentary-i remember one star trek next gen story line that some people compared to the Arab/Israeli situation-but with the religious extremists that in this time and place that really want to kill all those that disagree with them-i don't find it entertaining.

[kazzyk]

Thank you! The Ori and their followers as villians are far too real-life for me to enjoy, and I would prefer not to have them invade my few hours of escapism, as well. Seeing them on screen just causes me to be frustrated in the same way I get frustrated every day reading the editorial pages in my local newspaper. And sorry, but being frustrated is not fun. Perhaps it will be a bit cathartic once SG-1 figures out a way to defeat them. But even then, the unreality of whatever defeat they may concoct will be so utterly unbelievable that I dare say it won't be particularly satisfying. There will still be terrorists on earth who want to blow people up, and I will still be living in a world where many people consider homosexuals to be responsible for Hurricane Katrina, etc., etc., etc.

Even as a metaphor, the Ori fail, because whatever means are ultimately used to defeat them on the show, there is no way to defeat their counterparts here on earth. Religious extremism has existed for as long as humanity has worshipped gods, and it isn't going away anytime soon. Unfortunately, the people who might appreciate and understand the metaphor being presented on the show are probably not the people who might benefit from the message presented. TPTB aren't revealing anything new to me, nor, I dare say, to most of their audience. Religious extremists are not likely to be big fans of science fiction and the open-mindedness that is necessary to appreciate it.

Choosing religious extremists as the villians may be topical, but it's not very creative, and I personally don't find it very entertaining.

Thankyou! You said everything I have been trying to say
As if it is not enough that they have destroyed the show and scattered the team in favor of the "it" couple--they now want to address the issues of the day! Where is the entertainment value in that?

[Simhavaktra]

Thank you! The Ori and their followers as villians are far too real-life for me to enjoy, and I would prefer not to have them invade my few hours of escapism, as well. Seeing them on screen just causes me to be frustrated in the same way I get frustrated every day reading the editorial pages in my local newspaper. And sorry, but being frustrated is not fun. Perhaps it will be a bit cathartic once SG-1 figures out a way to defeat them. But even then, the unreality of whatever defeat they may concoct will be so utterly unbelievable that I dare say it won't be particularly satisfying. There will still be terrorists on earth who want to blow people up, and I will still be living in a world where many people consider homosexuals to be responsible for Hurricane Katrina, etc., etc., etc.

Even as a metaphor, the Ori fail, because whatever means are ultimately used to defeat them on the show, there is no way to defeat their counterparts here on earth. Religious extremism has existed for as long as humanity has worshipped gods, and it isn't going away anytime soon. Unfortunately, the people who might appreciate and understand the metaphor being presented on the show are probably not the people who might benefit from the message presented. TPTB aren't revealing anything new to me, nor, I dare say, to most of their audience. Religious extremists are not likely to be big fans of science fiction and the open-mindedness that is necessary to appreciate it.

Choosing religious extremists as the villians may be topical, but it's not very creative, and I personally don't find it very entertaining.

Speaking as someone who Jerry Falwell considers to be responsible for 9/11, I'm with you, Strix. All I've learned about religious extremism from Stargate is that condescending about it isn't helpful in dealing with it - and, I knew that already. It's not entertaining, and it's not gratifying to watch, especially when you're seeing people burned at the, um, bench, and main characters and entire civilizations attacked by plague, with no psychological repercussions for the 'victims' or even noticable, let alone continued, interest from their friends and the SGC.

It's as if they're also giving out the message that there are no consequences besides the military/political ones involved in a society becoming a theocracy. Personal, moral, ethical, emotional consequences - pffffft!!!! No such thing. And, IMO, that encourages both the original extremism and extreme responses to it. Everything that the Ori do, or have done, would have real world consequences, but... not on Stargate. Even chaining up a pregnant woman for three days without food or water would have social consequences in the community where it happened, but... no. At least Stargate used to show events changing the characters' overall outlooks on their situation. Now... maybe they'll use it to make Vala a bit deeper, but is one character graduating from the depth of a glob of spit to the depth of a mudpuddle any kind of appropriate reflection of the effects of complete religious domination of an entire galaxy?

And what does it say about real life if TPTB-Continuum thinks it is?

[Amanda Eros]

Writing about social issues is a pretty typical thing to do in the scifi/fantasy world. However those who are able to convey them without blatantly mirroring the images are the ones that really survive the long run. (Lord of the rings = WWII, Lion, Witch, and the Wardrobe = WWII, X-Men = WWII, etc) It really makes one scratch their heads and say, why??? When you look at how they are making the Orii. And how can our heroes go to bouncing from planet to planet when you know that the Orii ships are moving from Planet to Planet as well. One would think that they would come straight for Earth after taking out Dakara. Or wouldn't it be smart to split up the Orii ships and send one or two of them to Earth since they saw how easily they were about to take them out.

[Skydiver]

the 'trick' to inserting real world issues ito scifi is that you have to be graceful about it. careful and delicate...don't cram it in with a crowbar and sledge hammer.

if they wanted to play with the whole religious zealot angle...then don't let it be religion. let it be...what if...what if it's a substance, something like the pangerans and the tretonin, but with no nasty side effects. and it's great and wonderful...but has a darkside that they find later. something about how it's made

i dunno, it's hard to brainstorm this stuff on the fly, but if the oreos had been a bit less obnoxious and 'in your face' then maybe they wouldn't be so eye rolling

[AGateFan]

the 'trick' to inserting real world issues ito scifi is that you have to be graceful about it. careful and delicate...don't cram it in with a crowbar and sledge hammer.

if they wanted to play with the whole religious zealot angle...then don't let it be religion. let it be...what if...what if it's a substance, something like the pangerans and the tretonin, but with no nasty side effects. and it's great and wonderful...but has a darkside that they find later. something about how it's made

i dunno, it's hard to brainstorm this stuff on the fly, but if the oreos had been a bit less obnoxious and 'in your face' then maybe they wouldn't be so eye rolling

They were already doing the religion thing more graceful with the goauld. But with everything else stargate these days the graceful and subtle have been replaced with the obvious and the hard sell.

See the story lines, see the humor, see the character development etc...

[Skydiver]

See the story lines, see the humor, see the character development etc...

yes, you can lead me to the 'joke' but you can't make me laugh

[kazzyk]

When they insert real world--there is no resolution! This is after all entertainment and we like to have heros.
Winners and losers etc....

With inserting the issues of the day--whatever they come up with stay on target as a entertainment show will ring false.

With the oreos they have crossed over that subtle line--crossed to far if the spoilers for S10 are to be believed.
Top it off with Coops ideas that we NEED to understand why folks want to blow us up etc... (real life USA)--How the heck is he going to write that in?

[Skydiver]

writing it isnt' the hard part, writing it WELL will be.

no matter what solution he comes up with, it'll be 'wrong'...because the parallels between fantasy and reality are too clearly defined and anything he does will ring false.

if zealots changed thier minds, earth wouldn't have thousands of years of religious wars in its history.

I believe the the oreos are a bad decision. they're too close to the present day and he's plotted himself into an impossible to get out of situation

There IS no solution. In fact the only way to end a war of zealots is to kill everyone, on all sides.

[ToasterOnFire]

Well, they've managed to insert the real world into BSG and I think it works there. The difference as I see it is that BSG is meant to be a drama while SG1 is more light and fluffy - much more difficult to properly tackle hard hitting stuff like religious fanaticism that way. Plus SG1 has the problem of the big reset button and the tendency to go "oh, you died last ep and it was HORRID HORRID but we're going to forget that you ever existed now, kthxbye", so viewers don't get the long-term significance of events to make them seem realistic.

[suse]

Well, they've managed to insert the real world into BSG and I think it works there. The difference as I see it is that BSG is meant to be a drama while SG1 is more light and fluffy - much more difficult to properly tackle hard hitting stuff like religious fanaticism that way. Plus SG1 has the problem of the big reset button and the tendency to go "oh, you died last ep and it was HORRID HORRID but we're going to forget that you ever existed now, kthxbye", so viewers don't get the long-term significance of events to make them seem realistic.

But SG-1 takes place on Earth present time. not out in space zillions of lightyears away. It's too close to home. Which is the reason Roddenbury set of ST several hundred years in the future. We had "overcome " such stuff by then and live in a fairly utopian society. It's always easier to faults of outsiders.

SG-1 has never dealt with ramifications to actions well. That's why we have fanfic. However they have now written things that have affected Earth on a [I]global[I] scale (The 4 Horsemen). And they haven't dealt with it. And they are building ships like we have a spacedoc ala ST. No way could mutiple huge ships like that be hidden. Or paid for. Methinks the OTT wring got the best of them.

Suse

[Strix varia]

Well, they've managed to insert the real world into BSG and I think it works there. The difference as I see it is that BSG is meant to be a drama while SG1 is more light and fluffy - much more difficult to properly tackle hard hitting stuff like religious fanaticism that way. Plus SG1 has the problem of the big reset button and the tendency to go "oh, you died last ep and it was HORRID HORRID but we're going to forget that you ever existed now, kthxbye", so viewers don't get the long-term significance of events to make them seem realistic.

Very true.

In many ways, BSG is much more "real world" or "realistic" than SG-1.

And, yes, science fiction has a long history of tackling real-world issues and providing social commentary (which is one of the reasons why I like it). But it's usually done in creative ways and with an element of subtlety. There is no subtlety with the Ori. Anyone who doesn't get the comparison to real-world religious fanatics is probably missing something important... like a brain.

And I don't know why the writers think that religious sermons are something that I will look forward to as a regular part of my Friday night entertainment. I would find as much fun in listening to an army of zombie-like used-car salesmen with superpowers threatening to take over the universe. Okay, so it's theoretically frightening in concept, but the reality is that the message they provide is still tiresome and dull in its repetition (and not something I really want to listen to because I'm not shopping for cars), and the method of delivery is annoying.

[kazzyk]

BSG set out to be what it is and like what has already been said--there is a way to send messages without making one feel like they just read it in todays paper.

Stargate was never like BSG--for me personally--I dont care for BSG simply because of the tone--I think they do what they do great--it is simply not for me.

I like escapism and entertainment--Stargate use to do that in the present day with just enough to cause one go "what if there was this big ring?" etc..
It is hard for me to articulate exactly what that special something was--I just know it is gone now

[Skydiver]

yeah, and comparing bsg and sg1 is really apples and oranges....except at times i feel like coop and the boys are trying to emulate bsg.

bsg was created from day one to be a drama set in space. there's precious little humor or 'fun' in it. It's not like Boston Legal or Desperate Housewives, it's like Criminal Minds or CSI in that it's a dramatic show.

and because of that, they can deal with real issues veiled by thier distance from reality

SG-1 was always set in our reality. it was always set in the present time and in a real place. because of that, it has no distance, or very little from the rest world.

because of this, the recent 'let's deal with real world issues' scheme of thiers is falling flat for some. It's a little too real and touching on some very raw feelings and emotions.

the show already had very little distance from reality and when they bring in real life issues, that distance is closed to practically nothing

and then it becomes about as fun to watch as the nightly news

adn then, in this hyper reality they interject some very unreal characters and the whole thing becomes this unsustainable mish mash of 'we want to address reality, but we want to be goofy too'

it'd be like casting Bart and Homer to be the next actors in Law and Order...square peg, round hole

[ToasterOnFire]

But SG-1 takes place on Earth present time. not out in space zillions of lightyears away. It's too close to home. Which is the reason Roddenbury set of ST several hundred years in the future. We had "overcome " such stuff by then and live in a fairly utopian society. It's always easier to faults of outsiders.

This is a good point - even though the humans of BSG are very similar to Earthers they're still different enough to potentially deal with bigger issues without overwhelming the viewer. Sure we can talk about cylons and humanity, but in the end there are no such things as cylons so we can divorce ourselves from reality a bit.

However they have now written things that have affected Earth on a [I]global[I] scale (The 4 Horsemen). And they haven't dealt with it. And they are building ships like we have a spacedoc ala ST. No way could mutiple huge ships like that be hidden. Or paid for. Methinks the OTT wring got the best of them.

I'd actually like to see a "Stargate goes public" storyline sometime in the show's future - probably toward the end (like next season! ). If it was handled well it would be an interesting way to look at real world issues of govt coverups, how publicizing something can be a bad idea, good things that could come out of it, etc.

And I don't know why the writers think that religious sermons are something that I will look forward to as a regular part of my Friday night entertainment. I would find as much fun in listening to an army of zombie-like used-car salesmen with superpowers threatening to take over the universe. Okay, so it's theoretically frightening in concept, but the reality is that the message they provide is still tiresome and dull in its repetition (and not something I really want to listen to because I'm not shopping for cars), and the method of delivery is annoying.

Yeah, while I find the Ori a scarier villain than the Wraith I'm still underwhelmed with them as the next, bigger bad. Even making the fight personal, like with Vala and the Prommy, failed to impress them on me. Maybe it's because they're boring. Maybe I'm just tired of the whole worship or die/false gods aspect that we had for 8 years with the Goa'uld and now again with the Ori. I want to see an enemy motivated by something else. Or maybe an enemy that questions whether SG1 is really the good guy. I like a little more depth beyond heroes=always good, villains=always bad. Atlantis is touching on this to some extent, but unfortunately I see the heroes as more incompetent rather than straying from the good side.

yeah, and comparing bsg and sg1 is really apples and oranges....except at times i feel like coop and the boys are trying to emulate bsg.

Yeah, I don't think you can really compare the two shows and I'm perfectly fine with them being different. I just want both stargates and BSG to be GOOD different shows, and unfortunately the stargates aren't holding up their end recently.