S10: Critique & Contemplation

[Petra]

I've never seen one episode of Farscape in my life.

The reason why Mitchell was in charge of the team was his leadership capability - Sam, Daniel, and Teal'c didn't have that. They end up doing a huge amount of the work in the team, but they're somewhat soft spoken and not suited to giving out military commands.
Who would you think would be the leader if you first looked at SG-1? Who would you rather have give you orders, sometimes forcefully if need be?

I agree with majority here, which means I can't unfortunately agree with you.

As others said, Sam had already been in command for a year before Mitchell turned up. And prior to her getting a command, she'd had 7 years of being 2IC. Lots of experience then.

As for Teal'c, you really cracked me up How can you say that Teal'c, former First Prime of Apophis, who commanded a whole freaking army and then started a rebellion which led to all the Jaffa gaining freedom, doesn't have "leadership capabilities" and is "soft spoken and not suited to giving out military commands"?!

If you really think that, please give us examples. When did Sam and Teal'c show lack of leadership capabilities? And when Mitchell demonstrated such capabilities?

[Ashizuri]

As for Teal'c, you really cracked me up How can you say that Teal'c, former First Prime of Apophis, who commanded a whole freaking army and then started a rebellion which led to all the Jaffa gaining freedom, doesn't have "leadership capabilities" and is "soft spoken and not suited to giving out military commands!?

"Soft spoken" and "jaffa" do not belong in the same sentence, specifically not in regards to Tea'c, who is more than capable of leading/commanding/taking charge of SG-1 when he needed to (Upgrades, I'm looking at you).

Teal'c would not be amused.

[VSS]

I've never seen one episode of Farscape in my life.

The reason why Mitchell was in charge of the team was his leadership capability - Sam, Daniel, and Teal'c didn't have that. They end up doing a huge amount of the work in the team, but they're somewhat soft spoken and not suited to giving out military commands.
Who would you think would be the leader if you first looked at SG-1? Who would you rather have give you orders, sometimes forcefully if need be?

Uh no one. I don't take orders very well.

However, I'd accept this argument IF Mitchell had been written as a take-charge kind of guy. But he wasn't- the team behaved as a headless mass which took away from the realism of the show (along with the low-rise BDU pants on Vala).

Did he ever give a forceful order or butt heads with Sam like Jack did at times? I honestly don't know.

Really, they'd have had less trouble if they'd met the issue directly- have Sam return from Area 51, she and Cam have a sit-down where she clearly says she'd rather work on the science end of things. That, I'd buy (I wouldn't be happy with it, but I'd accept it).

[Mandysg1]

Uh no one. I don't take orders very well.

However, I'd accept this argument IF Mitchell had been written as a take-charge kind of guy. But he wasn't- the team behaved as a headless mass which took away from the realism of the show (along with the low-rise BDU pants on Vala).

Did he ever give a forceful order or butt heads with Sam like Jack did at times? I honestly don't know.

Really, they'd have had less trouble if they'd met the issue directly- have Sam return from Area 51, she and Cam have a sit-down where she clearly says she'd rather work on the science end of things. That, I'd buy (I wouldn't be happy with it, but I'd accept it).

Any officer who's had command ( SG1 S8, area 51 between 8and 9?) would look at coming back and not leading as a demotion. If they were to stick to realism, Sam should have sat down with Landry and let him know she should have command of her own unit. Heck Landry should have offered her own command of a unit, you don't have 2 Lt. Col on the same team, unless one is in training... and not in charge

[jckfan55]

Who would I rather give me orders?
Someone I trusted knew what he or she was doing.

Sam--competent and experienced offworld.
Teal'c--no question about his skills.
Daniel--not in a military sense, but on a research project, yes.
Mitchell--I wouldn't trust. A newbie in gate travel, runs off half cocked, doesn't listen to advice.

[VSS]

Any officer who's had command ( SG1 S8, area 51 between 8and 9?) would look at coming back and not leading as a demotion. If they were to stick to realism, Sam should have sat down with Landry and let him know she should have command of her own unit. Heck Landry should have offered her own command of a unit, you don't have 2 Lt. Col on the same team, unless one is in training... and not in charge

I agree with all of that- that would have been the best thing. Just from a fan perspective, though, if they'd made it clear what was going on instead of this half-way thing- perhaps us Sam fans wouldn't have been so disappointed. I guess it still wasn't clear right up through the movies who was actually in charge? (That's what I've heard people say who've actually watched both seasons). So instead of making one mistake (Sam not being the leader) they made two- Sam not leading because there's no clear leadership at all.

[jckfan55]

Uh no one. I don't take orders very well.

However, I'd accept this argument IF Mitchell had been written as a take-charge kind of guy. But he wasn't- the team behaved as a headless mass which took away from the realism of the show (along with the low-rise BDU pants on Vala).

Did he ever give a forceful order or butt heads with Sam like Jack did at times? I honestly don't know.

But that would undermine his image with the audience. He was already a weak character & he had to be the HERO!

Interestingly, somehow Daniel challenged him all the time & it didn't make me respect Daniel or Jack less. Hmmm.

Mostly what I remember is Cam just ignoring everyone else and doing his own thing. Off the Grid and Stronghold come painfully to mind.

[Ashizuri]

However, I'd accept this argument IF Mitchell had been written as a take-charge kind of guy. But he wasn't- the team behaved as a headless mass which took away from the realism of the show (along with the low-rise BDU pants on Vala).

And her cunningly cropped jacket strategically cut to show off her middrift everytime she raised her arms...not to mention that the pants were slim fit and boot cut to emphasize her figure and certainly not tucked into her pants, which is y'know, a safety precaution! I have never in my life seen "sexy" BDUs. Never. But they want me to take this character seriously. Seriously?

/clothing rant

[KatG]

I often wonder of the people who loved S9 and 10, how many were big Farscape fans. I don't mean this as an insult.

I enjoyed the first two seasons of Farscape very much, but couldn't bring myself to watch the last two. However, I really liked the character of Aeryn Sun and was looking forward to seeing what CB would do on SG1. I didn't even mind the fact that BB was coming over as well. But I was sadly disappointed and it all comes down to the fact that canon was thrown out the window.

In S8 - we had an experienced Russian Colonel, who wanted only to join, not lead, SG-1. Jack made it clear that in no way would he join any SG team and go through the gate until he had been trained, even then not the flagship team. Now all of a sudden in S9, we have recently promoted Lt. Colonel Mitchell, hot shot pilot, no gate experience, not just joining SG-1 but being given command of it. It's as if they threw the canon bible out the window. I didn't like it at all.

I've never seen one episode of Farscape in my life.

The reason why Mitchell was in charge of the team was his leadership capability - Sam, Daniel, and Teal'c didn't have that. They end up doing a huge amount of the work in the team, but they're somewhat soft spoken and not suited to giving out military commands.
Who would you think would be the leader if you first looked at SG-1? Who would you rather have give you orders, sometimes forcefully if need be?

What leadership capability? I rarely saw leadership ability in Cam. What little was there, was so sporadic, as to be of no acccount.

A leader is stable, consistent in his/her actions. A leader doesn't go off on his/her own, leaving his/her team behind, putting himself/herself and them in danger, so he/she can be the hero. A leader delegates to the strength of his/her team, so that hopefully the mission is accomplished and everyone gets back alive and relatively unscathed.

Based on those qualifications and what we've seen of Cam's leadership style and Sam's leadership style, I'll take Sam as leader any day.

[suse]

And to add to everything that everyone else has said, Mitchell admitted that he couldn't lead these people. I can never remember what episode it was in since I've generally only seen season 9 and 10 once, but if Mitchell thinks he can't do it, I'm going to agree with him.

Alsospoilered for length)

Spoiler:

Originally Posted by Ben Browder (in an interview)
If you followed the hierarchy of military command in the strictest sense, you end up with a character who looks a bit like a fool. Even experienced officers know when they walk into a unit, the first thing they have to do is pay attention to their NCOs who actually run the unit. Certainly in the case of SG-1, with Teal'c and Daniel, who are not military, obviously, and with Carter, who is of equal rank, it's a foolish notion to think that Mitchell is going to control things. Having said that, he does have that nominal title, and by the time he gets to the early, certainly the latter part of season 10—that's a big number, season 10—Mitchell's comfortable with what he needs to do within the team. And I think it does develop in the movie as well.

Ben Browder is smarter than the people in charge of the show!!

Yet Mitchell was still given nominal title. Why?

He's also said that Mitchell's 'super-power' is getting beat up, so if that's what he does it's better than leading...

He's also said that the pilot that took him up in S9, when asked, told him that leaders change every few years. This is quite true, but I *really* doubt that the former leaders are forced to serve under the new ones, something not taken into consideration.

suse

[suse]

"Soft spoken" and "jaffa" do not belong in the same sentence, specifically not in regards to Tea'c, who is more than capable of leading/commanding/taking charge of SG-1 when he needed to (Upgrades, I'm looking at you).

Teal'c would not be amused.

suse

[suse]

And her cunningly cropped jacket strategically cut to show off her middrift everytime she raised her arms...not to mention that the pants were slim fit and boot cut to emphasize her figure and certainly not tucked into her pants, which is y'know, a safety precaution! I have never in my life seen "sexy" BDUs. Never. But they want me to take this character seriously. Seriously?

/clothing rant

But <<lip wibbles>> Vala is "sexy" and "fun" and dressing her in a realistic way for what may become a combat situation would not accentuate that!



/sarcasm just in case it wasn't obvious enough

suse

[Vladius]

What leadership capability. He was a rookie without a days experience off-world.

Who should give orders is the one who knows what they're doing. I don't know, maybe the Lt. Col. that had been doing the job for almost a decade before Mitchell even went near the gate, and already had a year experience of leading the team? Just a though.

Honestly I only saw Mitchell be the leader on paper, and most of his brilliant decisions on the field usually ended up in a disaster. Like getting his team captured and tortured. Great job!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He was selected because he led the F302 squadron against Anubis's fleet at Antarctica. I'd say that qualifies for both leadership and security clearance.

EDIT: I can see I'm outnumbered and headed for a firestorm of complaints.

[suse]

He was selected because he led the F302 squadron against Anubis's fleet at Antarctica. I'd say that qualifies for both leadership and security clearance.

EDIT: I can see I'm outnumbered and headed for a firestorm of complaints.

No reason to complain unless someone is attacked for their opinion.

suse

[jasminaGo]

He was selected because he led the F302 squadron against Anubis's fleet at Antarctica. I'd say that qualifies for both leadership and security clearance.

EDIT: I can see I'm outnumbered and headed for a firestorm of complaints.

There is no complaints. We're just sharing opinions.

How does flying a plane qualify one to lead a ground unit off-world? When the two assignments have absolutely nothing in common. With that skill set you mentioned Mitchell could have gotten a ship to command, the Deadalus, the Apollo... Not a front line, first contact ground team.