S10: Critique & Contemplation

[Ashizuri]

There's too many unbelievable things in 9 and 10 that just further reinforce my belief that it was because the exec producers (MG and RDA) that held the reins on believability were gone.

This is soooo true. I missed RDA behind the scenes more than I missed Jack on screen, and I missed Jack. A lot.

[EvenstarSRV]

I'll join the chorus here. I went "what the..?!" at the almost-kiss with Martouf. It's one of the main reasons I dislike "Ripple Effect" so much. It's one of the few things I clearly remeber about this episode (saw it just once, it put me off too much to ever bother watching again), but I've seen here on the forum a lot of people talk that Sam was "clearly" shipped with both Cam and Daniel. Is this true? I honestly don't remember.

It's funny, but I really didn't mind that almost-kiss with Martouf. I just read it as Jolinar's memories/feelings being temporarily reawoken in Sam, though that may just be me stretching for any Jolinar references in seasons 9-10.

That being said, I would have loved to have seen Martouf and Sam talking about Sam killing him rather than who she was seeing in his reality. Not to mention anything between Sam and Janet beyond that hug at the end.

For Sam/Cam ship, I've read somewhere that the director interpreted that for the black team that took over the ship, but it got cut by the writer (JM?).

For Sam/Daniel I'm not sure, maybe the Sam giving coffee to all the other Sams?

As for Sam/Teal'c..again, I saw Unending just once but I don't remeber noticing anything beyond Sam/Teal'c friendship. Actually I was more surprised by Sam's tears over Landry. I found out about supposed S/T ship here on the forum, and quite recently too. As far as I'm concerned it's just Amanda stating her personal opinion, which of course is influenced by her personal friendship with Chris. However I don't regard it as equally important to what I saw on screen, and that was - nothing.

From what I remember AT talking about the Sam/Teal'c stuff in Unending, I think she and CJ meant to play it as ambiguous. You could see it as just friendship, or you could see it as something more, depending on your own preferences. I kinda liked that they chose to play it that way, leaving it up to the viewer to decide. It was a nice counterbalance, for me, to the over-the-top Daniel/Vala ship.

[jckfan55]

Can I just share a pet peeve? Well, I'm going to anyway.

A couple of times in the last season? or in Atlantis, they had characters (in one case for sure, Sam) say something like "nice callback" when a character said something. Now imho, if you are a longtime fan, you'll get the reference (such as "undomesticated equines") so there's no need to draw attention to it. If you're not, so what? And besides do people really talk that way?

takes deep breath

[Melora]

Can I just share a pet peeve? Well, I'm going to anyway.

A couple of times in the last season? or in Atlantis, they had characters (in one case for sure, Sam) say something like "nice callback" when a character said something. Now imho, if you are a longtime fan, you'll get the reference (such as "undomesticated equines") so there's no need to draw attention to it. If you're not, so what? And besides do people really talk that way?

takes deep breath

While it's not a pet peeve of mine, I do agree that it is weird. When Cam said "nice callback" in AOT, it just sounded out of place. I don't know anyone who says that except writers who are referring back to a previous scene. I think the writers have their own jargon and sometimes forget that the average person doesn't use some of the same vocabulary.

It's sort of understandable, as I do it myself from time to time. I'll be giving a lecture and accidentally use some academic jargon and the poor students just look at me with puzzled faces. I try not to make a habit of it though.

I also agree that it's not really necessary. If you are a long-time fan, you know when a scene references another scene from the past. If you are a newer viewer, you wouldn't get the reference anyway so pointing it out makes little sense.

Then again, "nice callback" could just be some sort of modern slang that I am unfamiliar with.

[Crazedwraith]

On a lighter note, I've figured out what bugs me about season 9 and season 10. It's BB

Now I'm sure BB is a wonderful actor, he certinally does quite well on stargate and other things I've seen him and you may say his character is just a poor replacement for one of the original cast; a cheap copy if you will but pah! I say. The real problem is that he has the same intials as BB.

This I can't abbreviate either their names or you have no idea who I'm talking about...

[Petra]

um..Brigitte Bardot?
sorry, couldn't resist

Seriously though, I have no idea whether you are talking about Ben Browder or Beau Bridges...? This is the question...

[Mac Jackson]

Wow, You're right. They would have probably done that(add Ba'al). I remember watching the last two seasons and right from the first ep of the 9th I remember saying "it'll get better. They'll address the things they've obviously missed." alas, it never came. Other then the times when Jack was on screen(wasted in most but The Shroud and The Return Part 2) there were few good moments. When it was canceled it was a mercy killing. I was sad that there would be less chance to repair all the damage and to see Jack but I was relieved that there would be less chance to destroy the previous 8 seasons. I pray the third movie sets things right and I have faith since Jack is in it more and no Vala!!! Yippee!!! Now if they can send Mitchell off somewhere...

[silly sally]

um..Brigitte Bardot?
sorry, couldn't resist

Seriously though, I have no idea whether you are talking about Ben Browder or Beau Bridges...? This is the question...

both?

[Allie_Kreek]

I thought the ori are not that scary, plus i don't really think that unending was that great

For a final episode it was terrible. It was like an episode they thought up to fill some space. Plus the Ori... hmm... SNORE!

I remember watching the last two seasons and right from the first ep of the 9th I remember saying "it'll get better. They'll address the things they've obviously missed." alas, it never came. Other then the times when Jack was on screen(wasted in most but The Shroud and The Return Part 2) there were few good moments. When it was canceled it was a mercy killing. I was sad that there would be less chance to repair all the damage and to see Jack but I was relieved that there would be less chance to destroy the previous 8 seasons. I pray the third movie sets things right and I have faith since Jack is in it more and no Vala!!! Yippee!!! Now if they can send Mitchell off somewhere...

I agree with you on so many of these points. I actually started getting annoyed with Jack in S9&10. He was there really just to make stupid jokes and was never the same. I understand that there was only so much they could do with the Jack character because RDA was only available for a certain amount of time but having him standing around making lame jokes was just insulting. In the end he wasn't doing anything to move the story forward, he was there to get the audience numbers up. If you can't get the audience numbers with the story then end it!

I'm feeling confident that the next movie will have more of an old SG-1 feel to it. Does anyone know if RDA is producing? And I totally agree that they need to get rid of Mitchell, I can't see Jack and Cam playing well with each other as they were written to alike. Plus I don't think I can take another dose of Cam Saves the Day!

[Petra]

I'm feeling confident that the next movie will have more of an old SG-1 feel to it. Does anyone know if RDA is producing? And I totally agree that they need to get rid of Mitchell, I can't see Jack and Cam playing well with each other as they were written to alike. Plus I don't think I can take another dose of Cam Saves the Day!

I'm so with you here. I think it's my main problem with Mitchell - he always has to be the hero, even though he's still the least experienced member of SG-1 (apart from Vala of course, but at least she'd been using the Gates before we met her). He wasn't bad in Continuum, actually I even started to like him a little there - not enough to watch the movie for the second time though - but it was so annoying that he was the hero once again. He had a big part in AoT (for which I'm a little grateful, because that movie was terrible IMO ) and in Continuum we found out the program wouldn't have existed if it wasn't for him. Ugh, okay, can we move on now?

As for their personalities, I find it interesting that on the one hand we've got fans who think he's a Jack clone and on the other hand fans who believe they are nothing alike. I admit I was using both arguments in various discusssions. But recently I've finally understood why. You can skip this part 'cos although it was a revelation for me, I'm sure it's been said milion times here on the forum.

The great thing about Jonas was that although technically he was created to fill Daniel's place on the team, so he got Daniel's skills, he had a completely different personality. Those two weren't similar at all, which was a great thing. Plus Jonas wasn't just an archeologist, he was also a bot of a scientist able to work with Sam, so all in all he was a very flexible character.

Unfortunately TPTB chose to do the exact opposite to Mitchell. His personality was written as Jack's, his purpose of being on the team was Jack's and his skills' set was much smaller than Jack's. Unfortunately, despite BB's best efforts, the actor couldn't pull it off because the character came across as too unexperienced, too immature and yes, too young to be as respected as Jack or to have a right to be as cynical or sarcastic. He wasn't on the team long enough to have a right to talk about sacrifices that have to be made and he didn't have the same presence Jack had which would enable him to give comfort or keep everyone convinced that they would pull through; and yet he was written in this way.

I'm not sure whether I want to see Mitchell in the third movie. I'd prefer if he wasn't in it, but on the other hand I'm kinda curious how TPTB envision them together: the original and the wannabe. So as long as I don't have to see how heroic Mitchell is yet again, I'm quite ok with both ways.

[Allie_Kreek]

Spoiler:

I'm so with you here. I think it's my main problem with Mitchell - he always has to be the hero, even though he's still the least experienced member of SG-1 (apart from Vala of course, but at least she'd been using the Gates before we met her). He wasn't bad in Continuum, actually I even started to like him a little there - not enough to watch the movie for the second time though - but it was so annoying that he was the hero once again. He had a big part in AoT (for which I'm a little grateful, because that movie was terrible IMO ) and in Continuum we found out the program wouldn't have existed if it wasn't for him. Ugh, okay, can we move on now?

As for their personalities, I find it interesting that on the one hand we've got fans who think he's a Jack clone and on the other hand fans who believe they are nothing alike. I admit I was using both arguments in various discusssions. But recently I've finally understood why. You can skip this part 'cos although it was a revelation for me, I'm sure it's been said milion times here on the forum.

The great thing about Jonas was that although technically he was created to fill Daniel's place on the team, so he got Daniel's skills, he had a completely different personality. Those two weren't similar at all, which was a great thing. Plus Jonas wasn't just an archeologist, he was also a bot of a scientist able to work with Sam, so all in all he was a very flexible character.

Unfortunately TPTB chose to do the exact opposite to Mitchell. His personality was written as Jack's, his purpose of being on the team was Jack's and his skills' set was much smaller than Jack's. Unfortunately, despite BB's best efforts, the actor couldn't pull it off because the character came across as too unexperienced, too immature and yes, too young to be as respected as Jack or to have a right to be as cynical or sarcastic. He wasn't on the team long enough to have a right to talk about sacrifices that have to be made and he didn't have the same presence Jack had which would enable him to give comfort or keep everyone convinced that they would pull through; and yet he was written in this way.

I'm not sure whether I want to see Mitchell in the third movie. I'd prefer if he wasn't in it, but on the other hand I'm kinda curious how TPTB envision them together: the original and the wannabe. So as long as I don't have to see how heroic Mitchell is yet again, I'm quite ok with both ways.

I put your comment in spoilers to save space, sorry about that.

I have to agree with your Jonas comments. I think he fit in better with the team because he was not only a good character but he wasn't shoved down our throats. Jonas also had the added bonus that his back story was explained a little better, we were better able to sympathise with him and we could see that he was learning about the Stargate as he went along, there was no reading all the mission reports and becoming an expert. Plus we knew where Jonas sat in the scheme of things! Also with Jonas there was a little mystery, was he human or something more? To me Cam was very much "Here I am, like it or lump it!" I actually liked Jonas a lot and was disappointed that he went... he got a pretty rough deal.

With Cam the whole hero thing got a bit out of hand. I was amused when a friend of mine started referring to SG-1 as SG-Cam. I was also annoyed that he ends up saving the day (AGAIN) in Continuum. Lol, to be honest I just couldn't feel bad for him in that film. Daniel and Sam I felt for but Cam... ah well! If he is in the next SG film I really don't want him having a big role and I certainly do not want him saving the day. It might be interesting to see how Jack and Cam play off each other but my big fear would be that we'd end up with the same situation as S9&10 where Cam does all the heroics while the others stand by gushing about how wonderfully brave he is and a dumb O'Neill makes snippy, unfunny comments from behind them.

[HPMom]

I'm so with you here. I think it's my main problem with Mitchell - he always has to be the hero, even though he's still the least experienced member of SG-1 (apart from Vala of course, but at least she'd been using the Gates before we met her). He wasn't bad in Continuum, actually I even started to like him a little there - not enough to watch the movie for the second time though - but it was so annoying that he was the hero once again. He had a big part in AoT (for which I'm a little grateful, because that movie was terrible IMO ) and in Continuum we found out the program wouldn't have existed if it wasn't for him. Ugh, okay, can we move on now?

As for their personalities, I find it interesting that on the one hand we've got fans who think he's a Jack clone and on the other hand fans who believe they are nothing alike. I admit I was using both arguments in various discusssions. But recently I've finally understood why. You can skip this part 'cos although it was a revelation for me, I'm sure it's been said milion times here on the forum.

I think my biggest problem with the Cam and Vala characters is this...
They tried to make Cam a huge hero to make us forget how much we missed Jack and they went totally over the top with it. It felt like they were shoving him down our throats. And they tried to make Vala completely different from her character on Farscape so we wouldn't notice they they took 2 actors from that show to try to boost ratings. And they went totally over the top with that too. There was nothing subtle about season 9 and 10. It was completely in your face TV!

[jckfan55]

I'm so with you here. I think it's my main problem with Mitchell - he always has to be the hero, even though he's still the least experienced member of SG-1 (apart from Vala of course, but at least she'd been using the Gates before we met her). He wasn't bad in Continuum, actually I even started to like him a little there - not enough to watch the movie for the second time though - but it was so annoying that he was the hero once again. He had a big part in AoT (for which I'm a little grateful, because that movie was terrible IMO ) and in Continuum we found out the program wouldn't have existed if it wasn't for him. Ugh, okay, can we move on now?

As for their personalities, I find it interesting that on the one hand we've got fans who think he's a Jack clone and on the other hand fans who believe they are nothing alike.

I think they are only slightly alike. Mostly I think if TPTB thought they were writing a younger Jack, their view of Jack is totally unlike mine.

One of the problems with Cam is they tried to make him both the young, enthusiastic pup (though he's aactually not that young) and the wisecracking leader. You have to feel for BB trying to figure out how to play this character.

I think it would have been better with him as the newbie learning from the best (as he said in his first ep.)

[Mac Jackson]

I think my biggest problem with the Cam and Vala characters is this...
They tried to make Cam a huge hero to make us forget how much we missed Jack and they went totally over the top with it. It felt like they were shoving him down our throats. And they tried to make Vala completely different from her character on Farscape so we wouldn't notice they they took 2 actors from that show to try to boost ratings. And they went totally over the top with that too. There was nothing subtle about season 9 and 10. It was completely in your face TV!

Well said. For me it was a combination of terrible writing (on the little moments that matter and dialogue) and over the top acting(Vala) or monotone acting(Cam). I remember saying everytime they crammed Cam in our face to Love him "I don't care how much you shove him in our face. He's never going to be Jack so stop trying." It was obvious they tried too hard to make us love him but he needs to be liked first and with the combination of him being mouthy or annoying (THAT'S what I'm talking about or My grandma....) that was never going to happen. For the most part I thought ha was most enjoyable in Continuum but again they had to make him be the big hero and it was, by that point, a reminder of the last 2 years. I have nothing good to say about Vala but many including myself already spoke of her pointlessness so I won't.

What they should have done with Cam was either not have him on at all (Reynolds,Davis or Lorne could have lead the team until Sam came back) or play up the idea or him being a rookie and way over his head. Have him stand in the background more and not hog all the scenes. It would have been more realistic for him to defer to the others on the team(not that TPTB cared about realisim in S9 and 10) and admit that he had a lot to learn. I think I would have respected the writers and actually liked and accepted Cam as a member of the team then. Instead, I resent the choices made and want him to go away.

[leiasky]

I think my biggest problem with the Cam and Vala characters is this...
They tried to make Cam a huge hero to make us forget how much we missed Jack and they went totally over the top with it. It felt like they were shoving him down our throats. And they tried to make Vala completely different from her character on Farscape so we wouldn't notice they they took 2 actors from that show to try to boost ratings. And they went totally over the top with that too. There was nothing subtle about season 9 and 10. It was completely in your face TV!

I feel the exact same way. Well said.