S10: Critique & Contemplation

[Gregorius]

Maybe I'm not thinking straight, but aren't Star Trek ranks Naval? Also, with all the talk of submarines, I can't help but think of the design of Enterprise. I couldn't stand the show, but their design ethic was based on subs, from what I've read.

That might be, I don't know, but those thing pilars on which the engines are placed are a bit idiotic.

Edited to add: Aren't Ancient cruisers fairly submarine shaped? Yes, that's an SGA concern, but they debuted around S10 of SG-1.

I'll comment on that after I've taken a look at the still tomorrow.

As for the 30whatevers of the Stargate universe, I've always just thought of them as a riff on Starcraft Battlecruisers, design-wise.

StarCraft Battlecruisers look cooler and the designs make, imo, far more sense when their weapons and abilities are taken into account.

Besides, the Borg have the best idea for interstellar craft; the sphere ships. Yes, there's no real concern for aerodynamics, but with the spheres and decentralized processing (and no "shoot me" bridge), they were very efficient and tactical.

Cubes are more efficient as you have no wasted space there as you have with spheres.

That's something that annoyed me in a lot of SciFi series: One main computer which fails while decentralized processing is for more logical for a warship due to redundancy. Same goes for surge protectors on the bridges...I know the ship got hit, but a console shouldn't explode when the ship gets hit nowhere near it.

Anyway, I like the B5 ships and to some degree the Farscape ships (And the Doctor Who ships and the Tardis ).

[jckfan55]

I find it amusing that a colonel is in charge of a ship. Only in SG that's the case, all the others use a variation on navy ranks.

That's because the Air Force runs the program. It actually makes a lot more sense imho for an Earth space program to come out of the AF than the Navy. So really in the far distant future I'd see a space program continuing w/ AF ranks despite the fact that they have "fleets" of ships. Once a branch is in charge of something it's not likely to let it go.

To bring this back on topic, can anyone really believe Mitchell as commander of a ship?

[Skydiver]

no

as a pinch hitter? sure, as a day to day commander? no

he's too...hands on to be an effective commander

[Mandysg1]

That's because the Air Force runs the program. It actually makes a lot more sense imho for an Earth space program to come out of the AF than the Navy. So really in the far distant future I'd see a space program continuing w/ AF ranks despite the fact that they have "fleets" of ships. Once a branch is in charge of something it's not likely to let it go.

To bring this back on topic, can anyone really believe Mitchell as commander of a ship?

besides the fact that he crashes them

I can't see him commanding a ship either, he's too gung ho, wants to run into the action without thinking of the consequences.

[Silverwings]

Cubes are more efficient as you have no wasted space there as you have with spheres.

Truuuuue, but I was thinking again of the tactical profile. Those corners poking out are nice targets.

And regarding Mitchell in command, wasn't he a squad leader when he was a flyboy? Or am I imagining that?

[Skydiver]

squad leader is one thing...that's the same as a team leader. but ship captain? nah, he can't stay out of the action

[Silverwings]

I'm just thinking that he may have been on the command track. He'd still need more experience, but at least some of his training would be relevant.

*Silver feels like a dirty apologist*

[suse]

I keep wishing that SGAtlantis would explore... Atlantis. *shrug*

Waht a novel concept.

Unfortunately it seems to warrant no more than a paragraph of the story.

There were tiny bits of S10 that I liked. Unfortunately they were drowned by the rest of the ep. Finding tiny morsels in a sea of rat poop... <<sigh>>

<<suse has now grossed out herself with that comment>>

suse

[suse]

"Mst3k"? Also, it would make for a perfect shot game: Take a shot whenever you spot a cliché or guess which episode is used.

Mystery Science Theatre 3000. A man and two wisecracking robots are lost in space with nothing to entertain them but B (at best) movies. The audience sees their heads at the bottom of the screen and hears the cracks. Very funny. I Mst3k'd Camelot. Ad-libbed Harry Potter and Monty Python references. Was quite amusing. Certainly better than the ep itself.

Explore Atlantis? If they did that they wouldn't be able to cast the bimbo of the week and it would create cannon which can contradict their Deus ex Machina solutions when those are needed. The expedition might discover a ZPM facility and suddenly all the "We must find ZPMs" plots are useless. And think of all those new sets they'd have to create... That money is much better spend on Xplosions and lots of SFX everywhere!

And how do they know a whole cache of ZedPMs aren't in an area that hasn't been turned on? Wouldn't they feel dumb.

Anyway, aren't JMS or JW (Or perhaps even Manny Coto) free and won't RTD be free in 2010? Perhaps one of those can revitalize the Stargate Franchise...

Why should they? They have their own universes to play in. Though I'd love any of the above mentioned to help shake out the 'in a rut' mindset. JMS would do that particularly well. Oh, to be a fly on *that* wall.

Anyway, I find the entire concept horrible as it's so cliché. I'd much rather see Stargate: NID, where we follow the exploits of a rogue SG team on the run from the SGC. It would make for a for more interesting concept.

According to Nevermind.

suse

[Jackie]

Well, you don't need forward thrusters if you've got side thrusters allowing you to make a 180 degree turn along the z-axis so you can use the main thrusters to slow down.

Got a pic. of the WW2 design as there are multiple designs and I'm curious as to which one you used?

Also, my comments were direct at a space-only craft. If you want it to be capable of re-entry a lot more variables need to be taken into account, including heat shields, parachutes, aerodynamics, etc..

spoiler for size and topic

Spoiler:

I'm taking certain design features from a handful of ww2 ships...not just American ships. Basic outline would be more Gato class. I'm meshing them into this picture I have in my mind. It's the size of a current aircraft carrier and is designed to stay in space as much as possible. Overall, the top view of the craft looks kind of like a sub down the center with rockets. The bottom view resembles the space shuttle outline with a heat shield over the rockets. The rockets do come off but not for flight, for maintenance.

When our navy finds this ship, they first think it's a Japanese sub because the rockets and shield had actually detached from the main vessel. After raising it they find the rest and start restorations. The ship is in dire need of repair and work the time the navy gets it.

In the beginning of the story the ship is actually brand new and belongs to an alien king. Though the aliens had very advanced technology they styles were similar to ww2 tech. Big dials and round gauges, throat mic, ect. The ship was crafted by hand on a very rare type of planet with materials we cannot find on earth.

So, when we get it and it's in ruins, naturally we put in our materials and the ship keeps falling apart for the rest of the story but manages to stay together when needed.

I decided to have the vessel come down like a plane but it will need a chute to slow it. The heat shield takes care of friction as well as the type of metal used and special paint on the outside that insulates when hot. It lands in water instead of a runway due to the sheer size of the vessel. Having it land on tires would mean HUGE tires.

Inside I incorporate some things you find on a carrier. A flight deck and hanger is directly under the outer deck. I use a catapult to launch the smaller fighter craft which is styled after a P-38. (Can go planet and space) The ship is armed with standard missiles and an EMP canon...which only works on advanced technology. The weapons are limited because it's not a war vessel..it's more for the king's use and diplomatic issues. Some policing but not intended for warfare.

When we get it and get out there..we find a war...of course. The ship is out gunned but is very maneuverable and fast.

Propulsion is still kind of up in the air with me. Nuclear is cliché for sci-fi now..but nuclear fusion is a possible use.

[Gregorius]

That's because the Air Force runs the program. It actually makes a lot more sense imho for an Earth space program to come out of the AF than the Navy. So really in the far distant future I'd see a space program continuing w/ AF ranks despite the fact that they have "fleets" of ships. Once a branch is in charge of something it's not likely to let it go.

Oh no. Something must be done about that horror future. Naval ranks are so much cooler than airforce ranks.

To bring this back on topic, can anyone really believe Mitchell as commander of a ship?

No. There are more qualified people and his behavior makes him a liability I'd never give a ship, he'd probably get it wrecked and that's not something that one can afford this early in ship development.

Mystery Science Theatre 3000. A man and two wisecracking robots are lost in space with nothing to entertain them but B (at best) movies. The audience sees their heads at the bottom of the screen and hears the cracks. Very funny. I Mst3k'd Camelot. Ad-libbed Harry Potter and Monty Python references. Was quite amusing. Certainly better than the ep itself.

Thanks. *looks it up*

And how do they know a whole cache of ZedPMs aren't in an area that hasn't been turned on? Wouldn't they feel dumb.

See! That's exactly why Atlantis can't be explored, although that would make for an episode much funnier than the current "comedic" episodes they produce. *mutters something about Lucius*

Why should they?

Money? Chance to work on something new? I had mentioned money, right?

They have their own universes to play in. Though I'd love any of the above mentioned to help shake out the 'in a rut' mindset. JMS would do that particularly well. Oh, to be a fly on *that* wall.

Hehe. If that were to happen and suddenly entire seasons were written by JMS I'd laugh.

Also, if Joss Whedon were to take command we'd be sure to see that Teyla'd get a lot more lines and turn into something more than wallpaper.

[suse]

See! That's exactly why Atlantis can't be explored, although that would make for an episode much funnier than the current "comedic" episodes they produce. *mutters something about Lucius*

Mutters something *uncomplimentary* about Lucius.

Money? Chance to work on something new? I had mentioned money, right?



Hehe. If that were to happen and suddenly entire seasons were written by JMS I'd laugh.

As much as I love jms' writing he's doe some pretty cheesy stuff, even of B5.

I'm not sure MGM would pay any of them the type of money needed to induce them to play in someone else's sandbox, even with carte blanche,

Also, if Joss Whedon were to take command we'd be sure to see that Teyla'd get a lot more lines and turn into something more than wallpaper.

Teyla: Wraith Hunter

<<snicker>>

i'll add to her other nickname.

Tey-Lo

Because she can sing and wears midriff baring outfits.
We can blame the evil brother-in-law for this designation.

suse

[Skydiver]

the lack of exploration of atlantis i'm putting down to 'hoarding' story ideas. A city exploration is, i'm sure, seen as boring. but also, exploring the story is a 'cheap' bottle episode, so they are hoarding the ideas to pull otu when the budget demands.

for me? they're living in an alien city. i woudl think priority #1, even if it's jsut for a team or two, would be to explore every single room of that city. Heck, with the right sheilding a whole group of people could be living in a tower or on a pier and they'd never know about it.

but, as soon as the city is 'fully explored' they lose that 'cheap bottle episode' option, so they'll never do it, even though it's the plot hole of a lifetime

[Fresh_Horse]

My projections for SGU:

*snip*

Characters:

-female ship's captain who is no nonsense and by the book.

-male lead who can do every job on the ship. Is in charge of the "off world" teams that go through the gate and leads his own team on top of that. He also is a crack fighter pilot and is a chick magnet. (Sheppard basically)

-mckay type scientist that is female.

-big bad alien robot...just grunts or says "indeed" a lot.

-female fighter pilot who is very much like starbuck of BSG

-navy personnel instead of airforce

-a chevron guy of some sort.

-same old plots...but with more space ship battles.

Um, you do realize that that would make it necessary for the female lead to actually be "the lead"?
Never, ever in this universe are TPTB going to have a female lead with top billing.

-mckay type scientist that is female.

No wait, you actually believe there are going to be two female main cast members?

-female fighter pilot who is very much like starbuck of BSG

That would be female main cast member 3. You really think the 15-year-olds would watch a show with that many chicks in charge? No way! Can't really sell such a show! Not even if the CIC have big bazookas (not the weapon).

You must be living in an AU.
Mind if I join you there?

1.5 years is possible if they perfected the mass production, got all hardware certified, finished all tests (Fun fact from the aviation industry: If a plane goes into service certain tests like stress tests are still being performed because they take a lot of time) and managed to get a lot of money.

Furthermore, I don't quite get how they could've tested a ship on Earth without anyone finding it out... Also It makes far more sense to assemble and test a ship at the Alpha site than do that on Earth where you need to keep everything a secret.

Not to mention that they've been barely 10 years into the galactic game and already they can reverse engineer nearly everything, interface with nearly everything and build ships with lightning speed.

I wonder, though, when they've begon designing the ships as in the aerospace industries the typical period from planning to launch is about 5 ~ 10 years if not more. Not to mention the redesigns if calculations and tests proof that certain things won't work.

Thank you!

I nearly puked when they introduced the Prometheus. That was the worst part of an otherwise excellent season.
You just put in words what I thought when they showed Prometheus for the first time. "too big, way too big, plus reverse engineering something *that big* in such a short time, who do they think they are kidding?"

[Skydiver]

yeah, they will NEVER really put a female in command. If they try, it'll be another Weir situation, where she was leader in name only and shep is the true leader of the show and she's just there to facilitate his hewoness.

Sam was put down to facilitate cameron being the leader, weir supported shep more than bossed him around (he flauted her authority more than once) and, even on atlantis, sam really conflicted with no one and was just there.

at least they didn't use her to ship with someone, but i think they were so aware of 'ooh, people might not like this' coupled with AT's hectic schedule, that they trod so lightly you sometimes wonder why they even bothered to bring her over. By the time they figured out what to do with sam, it was the end of the season and she was gone (or soon to be gone)