Michael Shanks not yet signed for season 10

[KatG]

I don't doubt it. Having a character you'd put effort and time into for five years compared to 'marcel the monkey from Friends' and called 'pointless' by your former employer has got to make you feel ever so slightly undervalued and mocked. He seems to have got over it though, just as everyone else seems to have got over him letting it be known in public that he'd felt frustrated.

The only people who seem to be holding it against him still are a small group of fans who can't let go,

I agree pretty much. I don't have a problem with MS coming back in S7. Obviously he and TPTB were able to come to terms with whatever the original problem was. I think what happened to CN was rather sad, but I don't in anyway blame MS for that decision.

I also didn't have a problem with MS leaving in S6. In fact, I originally admired his courage in choosing to take his chances rather than sticking with the safe bet of a role that he wasn't happy with. And let's face it, if he wasn't happy with the character any more it would have come across in his acting, much like RDA's feeling became more evident in Jack as time went on. My only real problem came with what he said in interviews later. And there again, I'm coming at it from working in human resources/personnel so my viewpoint might well be biased.

If MS decides not to sign for S10 because he wants to try his wings again, I will applaud his decision. It would be a gutsy move, given that S10 with Vala will probably have a lot of Daniel. If he decides to stay, which I really think is the case, and he's able to negotiate a better package than what he's got, then all power to him.

Whether he stays or goes really isn't going to affect my decision as to whether or not to watch S10. I'll probably tune in to the first couple of eps and make my decision based on what I see.

[Ali888]

Before people start thinking that people like me "hate" MS because I think his actions post S5 are relevant to his career. Let me put this straight.
But that is partly the point, it is hard and yes it's good to be ambitious and self-confident, but shooting yourself in the foot by bad-mouthing the PTB on the only big job you've had, when you are not the star, isn't very productive.

Looking at the situation in hindsight, in my opinion, the only person his actions harmed was himself. It's the little boy who cried wolf, except, with the firestorm that blew up, he also cried hurricane and meteorite at the same time. So I think you can excuse some people for not believing him in future. (In the same way, post-GABIT some people will choose not to believe AT in future.)

If he had kept his mouth shut, or cried and didn't come back permanantly, he'd be given more respect. You may think he was only being honest, and such things should be water under the bridge. I think that's very sweet, and I'd like to live in that world too.



*That they didn't make much effort in getting him to stay is a standard complaint, but he isn't the star and you wouldn't cut off the arm of your baby just because someone says they don't like the fingers on it.

I have no idea what you're trying to say here. MS did not badmouth his employers. He explained why he left the show, the reason being that his character had been minimised for two years. He spoke to TPTB who told him that the character didn't warrant an upgrade. Yes, MS was unhappy but explaining the facts as he saw them isn't 'badmouthing' anyone. Yes, he was unhappy that TPTB didn't make any effort to keep him on the show. Why wouldn't he be unhappy? It's called being human, we all like to be needed/wanted. I bet that if you were unhappy at work and asked your employer if he could help you, then you'd be upset if he turned round and told you that your job wasn't important enough for him to bother helping you.

Ali

[Skydiver]

I also didn't have a problem with MS leaving in S6. In fact, I originally admired his courage in choosing to take his chances rather than sticking with the safe bet of a role that he wasn't happy with. And let's face it, if he wasn't happy with the character any more it would have come across in his acting, much like RDA's feeling became more evident in Jack as time went on. My only real problem came with what he said in interviews later. And there again, I'm coming at it from working in human resources/personnel so my viewpoint might well be biased.

yeah. when word first broke that he was leaving i was like 'man, that takes guts to give up a year's worth of easy money and strike out on your own.'

in fact, some of the harshest critics of his choice in the beginning were his devout fans. I seem to recall the MSOOF boards imploding with outrage because their favored actor dared to want to leave.

Interpretations vary on the interviews over the next few months, however there was - to many - an increasing level of frustration and anger in each one.

As to being told that his character was worthless or whatever is spreading aroudn now, this is the first i've heard of it. Not that i was in the room, in fact, i sincerely doubt anyone playing on these boards or any other message room on the net was actually in the room to hear the real words and real discussion, so much of what's reported is nothing more than here say and innuendo and, POSSIBLY, memories altered by the passage of time.

the one thing that strikes me the most though is that part of daniel's story died in s3, and it died at MS' request. Shau'ri was killed off because MS requested that it happen. and with Shau'ri's death died daniel's 'mythic quest', his quest for a happy ending and to rescue his wife. She died because MS asked the writers to end that part of his story.

and with her died Daniels' main reason for being involved with the SGC.

[smurf]

the one thing that strikes me the most though is that part of daniel's story died in s3, and it died at MS' request. Shau'ri was killed off because MS requested that it happen. and with Shau'ri's death died daniel's 'mythic quest', his quest for a happy ending and to rescue his wife. She died because MS asked the writers to end that part of his story.

and with her died Daniels' main reason for being involved with the SGC.

That's interesting I didn't know that. What a strange thing to request, feels like we missed a chance for Daniel to deal with Shau'ri as a bad-assed goa'uld. I know they tried it with Sarah/Osiris but still...
I knew they stopped writing innocent, wide-eyed Daniel because MS decided to stop acting it.

Mind you, I never saw Daniel as particularly innocent. Jonas either for that matter (people growing up in warzones generally aren't). Naive, yes, but I always think innocence suggest a purity that neither characters have.
Sorry off topic, my bad.

[Skydiver]

i've always seen daniel as far more worldly than others wish to see him. this man grew up traveling all over hte world with his parents. so he was exposed to who knows how many cultures over the years. he then, at age 7, witnesses his parents' deaths and was - presumably - absorved into the foster care sytem of new york state (the parents were killed in new york, nick didn't want to adopt him and i doubt he signed over rights so that someone else could adopt him, something which is supported to this point by no mention of adoptive parents). He was likely never adopted (due to the legal reasons mentioned and the sad fact that older children are massively hard to place) and likely grew up a ward of the state until he was 18, then he was on his own.

he no doubt, had some scholarships to pay for school, but physically he's likelyh been on his own since he was 18 and emotionally on his own for much longer

daniel may have been naive about how the military works and unused to workiing in a system such as the military, where red tape is rampant, but he never was an innocent. at least not in my interpretation of the character

YMMV

[Skydiver]

many of the changes to the character that some fans haven't liked and blamed TPTB for have been changes the actor liked

daniel's hair was cut not only because MS was playing hamlet and needed the shorter cut, but also because MS was tired of taking care of the longer hair.

daniel doesn't wear his glasses as often as is expected because, like many non-glasses wearing people, glasses are tough to get used to. they're hard and can even give you headaches, even plain glass ones - when y ou're not used to seeing little lines in your line of vision, they can be tought to get used to and very distracting

Daniel has buffed up over the years because MS himself has buffed up. He presumably got tired of playing the '98 pound weakling' and wanted to have a more buff and, well manly, image. (and it wouldn't surprise me, given his friendship with CJ, if CJ's emphasis on maintaining his Tea'c physique didn't have an effect on MS buffing up a bit)

Along with the more buff physique, Daniel becoming more competant with weapons and more an equal part of the team instead of the 'weak link' (the civilian that must be protected) is only a natural evolution of his character.

beyond the whole storyline stuff, which can and will be debated ad nauseum, the simply physical changes of the character had most if not all of thier root in the actor and his desire to make Daniel Jackson less an immiation of James Spader and more of his own character

[smurf]

i've always seen daniel as far more worldly than others wish to see him. this man grew up traveling all over hte world with his parents. so he was exposed to who knows how many cultures over the years. he then, at age 7, witnesses his parents' deaths and was - presumably - absorved into the foster care sytem of new york state (the parents were killed in new york, nick didn't want to adopt him and i doubt he signed over rights so that someone else could adopt him, something which is supported to this point by no mention of adoptive parents). He was likely never adopted (due to the legal reasons mentioned and the sad fact that older children are massively hard to place) and likely grew up a ward of the state until he was 18, then he was on his own.

he no doubt, had some scholarships to pay for school, but physically he's likelyh been on his own since he was 18 and emotionally on his own for much longer

daniel may have been naive about how the military works and unused to workiing in a system such as the military, where red tape is rampant, but he never was an innocent. at least not in my interpretation of the character

YMMV

Ooh, that is exactly how I see him. It never made sense to me with what we know of the character's past and what archaeology involves, that a person would come out with innocence intact. Along with the fact in canon the character is 30+ when we meet him. It's like saying Indiana Jones has innocence.

With, Jonas I can see him having a better family life, but the last major conflict was 20 years ago and I can't see him being any younger than 27. So war in his lifetime, threat of war for the next 20 years, he works in politics, and he made one heck of a calculated choice in Meridian.
One of those people, like Daniel, who is too smart to be innocent.

Off, off topic (?) on actors choices:
Although, I'm not enjoying S9 I'm kind of interested in how much control BB is getting with his character. Is it RDA, and to some degree CN, style of developing with the writers, or more along the lines of AT/MS where suggestions are welcome, but possibly ignored?
I haven't read that many BB interviews, but I haven't really seen him talk about how he intends to develop the character.

[LaCroix]

yeah. when word first broke that he was leaving i was like 'man, that takes guts to give up a year's worth of easy money and strike out on your own.'

in fact, some of the harshest critics of his choice in the beginning were his devout fans. I seem to recall the MSOOF boards imploding with outrage because their favored actor dared to want to leave.

Interpretations vary on the interviews over the next few months, however there was - to many - an increasing level of frustration and anger in each one.

As to being told that his character was worthless or whatever is spreading aroudn now, this is the first i've heard of it. Not that i was in the room, in fact, i sincerely doubt anyone playing on these boards or any other message room on the net was actually in the room to hear the real words and real discussion, so much of what's reported is nothing more than here say and innuendo and, POSSIBLY, memories altered by the passage of time.

the one thing that strikes me the most though is that part of daniel's story died in s3, and it died at MS' request. Shau'ri was killed off because MS requested that it happen. and with Shau'ri's death died daniel's 'mythic quest', his quest for a happy ending and to rescue his wife. She died because MS asked the writers to end that part of his story.

and with her died Daniels' main reason for being involved with the SGC.

Wow. I always thought it was VB's decision in light of what was happening
between her and MS in their personal life. I never knew that it was on MS's part that it happened. You learn something new every day.

[Dani347]

Sha're was why he joined SG1, but she certainly wasn't the only reason he stayed there. He's an explorer. I don't even think they needed Shifu to have given him a reason to stay in the program. I think after his grief and his resentment to Teal'c had worn off, it would have been just as realistic for him to choose to stay because he truly enjoyed his job, he wanted to continue being with his surrogate family, and also in a way to avenge Sha're by freeing others. Sha're was a very important part of his time in the SGC, and I'd say the most, but she was never the all and everything.

[Skydiver]

A lot of it is open to each person's personal perception. However the search for Shau'ri, the quest to rescue his wife and love fits in with the 'mythic quest' for a hero. kind of like Luke searching out the meaning of the jedi, or frodo trying to get the ring to mordor.

a quest is a task that has to be completed for the character to reach is growth point or turning point.

teal'c's quest has always been to free his people. sam and jack really don't have any singular quests,and until shau'ri was killed, rescuing and freeing her was daniel's.

with that goal gone, so goes much of daniel's reason for being there. Yes, he is the explorer. so is jack and sam. the need to explore and investigate is what drives them. they may not have any really long standing arcs (jack and the asgard, sam and the tok'ra, daniel and the ancients) but none of them have any real quests or goals

in many ways, had shau'ri survived and was still a part of hte universe, the person who brought up sarah had a point. rescuing her could have been the ultimate love story (i think in many ways introducing Sarah was an attempt to recreate shau'ri. and it was an arc that continued until they thought the show was ending. I think if they'd have known about s9 sooner, sarah wouldn't have been rescued yet. she'd still be out there as a nemesis.)

but now the only real quest the show has is Teal'c's and his journey from slave to leader/king

[Dani347]

with that goal gone, so goes much of daniel's reason for being there. Yes, he is the explorer. so is jack and sam.

And, yet, there was never any question of Jack and Sam's reason for being there. Sha're was the most important reason for him joining, but for her death to mean he had no story left diminishes all the rest of his character. If they don't need a long term quest to justify them being there, there's no reason why Daniel needed one. Daniel's main reason for joining was gone when Sha're died, but my point is, she wasn't the onlyreason. Daniel has always had many reasons for being there. Just because the initial main reason is gone doesn't make the others disappear.

[smurf]

And, yet, there was never any question of Jack and Sam's reason for being there. Sha're was the most important reason for him joining, but for her death to mean he had no story left diminishes all the rest of his character. If they don't need a long term quest to justify them being there, there's no reason why Daniel needed one. Daniel's main reason for joining was gone when Sha're died, but my point is, she wasn't the onlyreason. Daniel has always had many reasons for being there. Just because the initial main reason is gone doesn't make the others disappear.

There isn't a question of Jack and Sam's presence because, being a military show, they are there for their job. They don't need a reason, as part of the airforce setup they have been assigned their positions. They can leave if they want to, but likely only by leaving their jobs as a whole and since both are career airforce I don't see that happening. They can also be reassigned, but their reason/arc for being still on the team isn't completely their choice.

With Daniel he can choose to leave at any time. He didn't really want to get involved in the first place and only joined to save Shau're. In failing to save Shau're his main reason for being there disappears. This doesn't mean he has to leave, he could stay because he likes the job, or the people, or because he hasn't got anything better to do. But like Jack and Sam, who are there to do their job, it means he doesn't have an arc anymore and is no longer forefront because he is no longer the story's driver.

Personally, I see Stargate SG-1 as Teal'c's story because it's the only one which has managed to run all the way through. We should have all Teal'c, all the time.

[Skydiver]

Personally, I see Stargate SG-1 as Teal'c's story because it's the only one which has managed to run all the way through. We should have all Teal'c, all the time.

in a lot of ways it is teal'c's story. not to the exclusion of anyone, but teal'c's arc was started back in COTG - turning his back on his god, risking his life, his family, his immortal soul, for the good of his people and to try and attain the dream of freedom.

and freeing the jaffa has been a part of the show since day one. teal'c has already gone from slave, murdering at the behest of his 'god' to a leader and has the potential to be even more of a leader before the show ends

it's a long running story of freedom and just how difficult that easy sounding task can be

[the fifth man]

in a lot of ways it is teal'c's story. not to the exclusion of anyone, but teal'c's arc was started back in COTG - turning his back on his god, risking his life, his family, his immortal soul, for the good of his people and to try and attain the dream of freedom.

and freeing the jaffa has been a part of the show since day one. teal'c has already gone from slave, murdering at the behest of his 'god' to a leader and has the potential to be even more of a leader before the show ends

it's a long running story of freedom and just how difficult that easy sounding task can be

Wow, that was really nicely put, Skydiver. Just shows how important Teal'c has been, and continues to be.

[prion]

But, getting back to topic...

No word yet that Michael Shanks has signed up for season 10. I heard he was doing a con this past weekend? or is it next weekend? so wonder if any fans who were at (or are going) can report back as I'm sure someone must have asked that question.