The Torment of Tantalus (110)

[Falcon Horus]

Out in the world? She's with her father at his residence near the site of his dig, the same as she was when the gate was first discovered. It was probably expected to be a relatively safe location until it wasn't, leading to the gate's relocation in 1939.

Nothing is safe in the world of archaeological digging -- in those days grave robbing was a lucrative business still.

However, we're looking at it backwards... The gate was discovered in 1928 at which time Catherine is about 11-12 years old (I'm guessing) so ten years later she'd be about 21-22 years old. Therefore, in the ToT flashbacks she's about 27-28 years old.

She mentions Roosevelt who was curious what the artefact was and since they thought it was a weapon, they were more than likely hoping to use it at some point in time. Let's not forget that around 1938 Hitler had risen to power in Germany and would invade Poland on September 9, 1939 (no, the 2nd world war didn't actually start in 1940).

Also, small detail... while it's fabulous (more or less) they want to delve into her life prior to the events of 1945; something tells me that the semi-realism we got in terms of the times and setting -- as in socio-political stuff -- this will be ignored in favor of a romantic view of a young Langford galavanting across Egypt and/or America and/or Europe as if that was even remotely possible in those days, as a woman no less.

I suggest you read Agatha Christie's book "Come, Tell Me How You Live" about her time in Iraq with her husband Max Mallowan to get a feel of the times and archaeological digsites. While this is reality and Stargate is obviously not, Stargate also is not full on scifi or fantasy, and keeps its feet tethered to reality.
And if nothing else, the book is incredibly hilarious...

[Seaboe Muffinchucker]

Nothing is safe in the world of archaeological digging -- in those days grave robbing was a lucrative business still.

Are you suggesting it isn't, anymore?

this will be ignored in favor of a romantic view of a young Langford galavanting across Egypt and/or America and/or Europe as if that was even remotely possible in those days, as a woman no less.

This sort of thing did happen (although romantic was the absolutely least accurate word to describe the situation). While I agree that the show got it wrong, it's not true it wasn't possible.

Seaboe

[Falcon Horus]

Are you suggesting it isn't, anymore?

It still is -- just look at IS, they funded half of their operation with it.

This sort of thing did happen (although romantic was the absolutely least accurate word to describe the situation). While I agree that the show got it wrong, it's not true it wasn't possible.

When I say "romantic", I mean it in the medieval romance way... Make everything look more docile than it really is.

///+++///

I just watched the teaser and what the hell did I just watch?

Sorry guys, but it's definitely not going to fall in line with what Torment of Tantalus tells us.

Young Catherine "Indiana Jones" Langford... yeah... nevermind...

[aretood2]

It still is -- just look at IS, they funded half of their operation with it.



When I say "romantic", I mean it in the medieval romance way... Make everything look more docile than it really is.

///+++///

I just watched the teaser and what the hell did I just watch?

Sorry guys, but it's definitely not going to fall in line with what Torment of Tantalus tells us.

Young Catherine "Indiana Jones" Langford... yeah... nevermind...

I think they were referring to taking artifacts from their "native" locations to foreign museums.

[Falcon Horus]

Therefore, the most priced pieces from places destroyed by IS are still save and in one piece -- the Louvre has a great collection. And you don't have to go to Greece to see the best part of the Parthenon, cause that's in the British Museum.

However, no... back then grave robbing was still a lucrative business. In more modern times, it's lucrative to sell priceless artefacts on the black markets and the dark web. Even clay tablets fedge a good market price.

[aretood2]

Therefore, the most priced pieces from places destroyed by IS are still save and in one piece -- the Louvre has a great collection. And you don't have to go to Greece to see the best part of the Parthenon, cause that's in the British Museum.

However, no... back then grave robbing was still a lucrative business. In more modern times, it's lucrative to sell priceless artefacts on the black markets and the dark web. Even clay tablets fedge a good market price.

I'm pretty sure the Greeks want their artifacts back though.

[Xaeden]

Nothing is safe in the world of archaeological digging -- in those days grave robbing was a lucrative business still.

Sure, but this is nothing new. The canon has already established that her father took her to his dig(s).

However, we're looking at it backwards... The gate was discovered in 1928 at which time Catherine is about 11-12 years old (I'm guessing) so ten years later she'd be about 21-22 years old. Therefore, in the ToT flashbacks she's about 27-28 years old.

You're confusing continuities. She's around 12 in the movie. The Torment of Tantalus changed that and made her 21 in 1945, which means within the canon of the TV franchise she would've been around 4 when the Stargate was discovered.

There's a little weirdness since they used movie footage in the teaser for Origins but promotional material isn't canon. For the latest Godzilla movie there was a poster with Godzilla towering over skyscrapers, which led to some people thinking that was how big he was going to be in the movie. Obviously, that didn't turn out to be the case.

She mentions Roosevelt who was curious what the artefact was and since they thought it was a weapon, they were more than likely hoping to use it at some point in time. Let's not forget that around 1938 Hitler had risen to power in Germany and would invade Poland on September 9, 1939 (no, the 2nd world war didn't actually start in 1940).

I'm not sure what your point is. Are you saying that the U.S. would have no reason for wanting a weapon since WWII had not yet started? In 1938, Germany annexed Austria and the Munich Agreement allowed Germany to annex parts of Czechoslovakia. Although the U.S. maintained its neutrality, it was not unclear that the U.S. could get dragged into a war so it was then that Roosevelt began preparing for a possible conflict with Germany.

Btw, who thinks WWII began in 1940? I've never heard someone say that, ever so it's weird to me to see you try to get ahead of that as if it's something you've had to repeatedly discredit. I can maybe see someone mistakenly thinking WWII began when the U.S. got involved, but that happened in 1941.

I suggest you read Agatha Christie's book "Come, Tell Me How You Live" about her time in Iraq with her husband Max Mallowan to get a feel of the times and archaeological digsites. While this is reality and Stargate is obviously not, Stargate also is not full on scifi or fantasy, and keeps its feet tethered to reality.
And if nothing else, the book is incredibly hilarious...

It sounds interesting and I'll add it to my to-read list. I would note, however, that is but one example.

Dorothy Garrod, for example, was the director of the Carmel Cave excavations in Palestine going into the 1930s. The link below cites other examples, including women who traveled unaccompanied in the early 20th century as part of their archeological work.

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/06/20/bu...nes/index.html

'
An unfortunate issue in the study of women's history is that the accomplishments of women tended to go unrecorded and un-celebrated, leading to a perception that certain things were impossible rather than simply very difficult in particular contexts. And, when it comes to fiction, hardships and overcoming extreme obstacles make for good stories so women who overcome societal and historical pressure to be one way make for great, engaging characters.

[Falcon Horus]

I'm pretty sure the Greeks want their artifacts back though.

Oh, you bet they do...

Though, they may want to look into protecting their current sites. I was in Crete a year or two ago, and the archaeological sites were in a sad state and they deserved better, much better. They've only just begin to crawl out of the bankruptcy hole, but they could really use all the help they can get in that regard.

The canon has already established that her father took her to his dig(s).

Well, there wasn't a mother -- think she got the film/tv-treatment of dead at an early age and out of the picture.

You're confusing continuities. She's around 12 in the movie. The Torment of Tantalus changed that and made her 21 in 1945, which means within the canon of the TV franchise she would've been around 4 when the Stargate was discovered.

Then Origins will not follow the established TV-timeline, ignore it altogether and conitnue... err.... prequel the D&E Stargate timeline. Therefore, creating a new timeline and reality in which there is no SG-1. This does open the doorway for a reboot though...

Damn, well played MGM.

Btw, who thinks WWII began in 1940? I've never heard someone say that...

Unfortunately, I have and at the time I thought I heard wrong.
I could actually see my history teacher's deadly glare appear right in front of me. She wouldn't have anything of that.

Dorothy Garrod, for example, was the director of the Carmel Cave excavations in Palestine going into the 1930s. The link below cites other examples, including women who traveled unaccompanied in the early 20th century as part of their archeological work.

Cool -- link saved.

[mooseman]

About Catherine's age, we're assuming she meant she was 21 in 1945. I'm thinking she could have meant she was 21 at the start of the military's involvement, which I would guess 1939 or so, when the Achilles brought it to the US. That would maintain canon, I suppose.

[mooseman]

Then Origins will not follow the established TV-timeline, ignore it altogether and conitnue... err.... prequel the D&E Stargate timeline. Therefore, creating a new timeline and reality in which there is no SG-1. This does open the doorway for a reboot though...

Damn, well played MGM

Y'know, I kidding around on Reddit with a similar theory, but the more I think about it...it is at least a possibility.

Wouldn't that be a kick in the pants?


Anyways, to get this thread back on track, I really enjoyed ToT.
I'd give it an Excellent.

[Falcon Horus]

About Catherine's age, we're assuming she meant she was 21 in 1945. I'm thinking she could have meant she was 21 at the start of the military's involvement, which I would guess 1939 or so, when the Achilles brought it to the US. That would maintain canon, I suppose.

Mmm.... *ponders*

Y'know, I kidding around on Reddit with a similar theory, but the more I think about it...it is at least a possibility.

Wouldn't that be a kick in the pants?

It would most certainly be ... well, well played.

[Xaeden]

Then Origins will not follow the established TV-timeline, ignore it altogether and conitnue... err.... prequel the D&E Stargate timeline. Therefore, creating a new timeline and reality in which there is no SG-1. This does open the doorway for a reboot though...

Damn, well played MGM.

I'm confused by your response. How does what I said mean they're not following the TV timeline? The TV show said she was 21 in 1945. It never said or indicated how old she was in 1928. That's the movie's continuity that did that. Her being 15 in 1938 is consistent with the TV show's continuity.

Unfortunately, I have and at the time I thought I heard wrong.
I could actually see my history teacher's deadly glare appear right in front of me. She wouldn't have anything of that.

Fair enough. I was a history major myself, so I definitely would not let someone saying WWII started in 1940 stand either.

[Seaboe Muffinchucker]

Didn't they (at some point) show the clip of the original 1928 raising of the gate? Because in that clip, she is very clearly not five years old (no younger than eight, and more like ten, I'd say).

Note: I've never seen the movie, and I know I've seen that clip, so it had to be in the show.

Seaboe

[hedwig]

Didn't they (at some point) show the clip of the original 1928 raising of the gate? Because in that clip, she is very clearly not five years old (no younger than eight, and more like ten, I'd say).

Note: I've never seen the movie, and I know I've seen that clip, so it had to be in the show.

Seaboe

I've seen that clip, too. She's seen running through the dig site and finds the necklace that she keeps for many years, and picks it up.

[mooseman]

I don't recall seeing that clip during an episode, but my memory is far from flawless.

The actress that played young Catherine, Kelly Vint Castro*, was 11 when they filmed the scene. That lines up nicely with Ellie Gall's current age of 21 since Origins takes place 10 years after the Gate's discovery. I explained my theory of her being 21 in 1938/39 a few posts up.

*she is actually going to appear in Origins in another role.