Emancipation (103)

[scarimor]

I'm not sure what the writers/producers were trying to do with this episode. In fact, it made me think they weren't sure what to do with Sam.

It was a big lesson for O'Neill, really: you don't get to abandon one of your team on her own just because it suits the locals' sensibilities. You stick together and watch each other's backs.

[captain jake]

It was a big lesson for O'Neill, really: you don't get to abandon one of your team on her own just because it suits the locals' sensibilities. You stick together and watch each other's backs.

I agree that this was a key mistake in the episode, however the same thing has been done in countless other episodes since then.

[Cheerful Dragon]

It was a big lesson for O'Neill, really: you don't get to abandon one of your team on her own just because it suits the locals' sensibilities. You stick together and watch each other's backs.

O'Neill would have done a risk assessment and decided that there was no danger to Carter if she was left alone. The problems arose because he based his assessment on Western culture. He ignored the fact that Abu's love for Nya might make him do something that, while unacceptable to most humans, was OK by Shavadai standards.

[captain jake]

O'Neill would have done a risk assessment and decided that there was no danger to Carter if she was left alone. The problems arose because he based his assessment on Western culture. He ignored the fact that Abu's love for Nya might make him do something that, while unacceptable to most humans, was OK by Shavadai standards.

LMAO!!! You think Jack left carter alone because he didn't take tribal politics into account? I promise you that he left her alone because he knew that she could defend herself. Which she could have when she was awake, but we have to remember that this was late into the night. Jack and Daniel were most likely asleep in a tent near by. The reason she was taken was because it was an "inside job", Abu had access to that tent because he was the Chieftains son. If it had been anybody else I bet guards would have stopped what was going on.

[Cheerful Dragon]

LMAO!!! You think Jack left carter alone because he didn't take tribal politics into account? I promise you that he left her alone because he knew that she could defend herself. Which she could have when she was awake, but we have to remember that this was late into the night. Jack and Daniel were most likely asleep in a tent near by. The reason she was taken was because it was an "inside job", Abu had access to that tent because he was the Chieftains son. If it had been anybody else I bet guards would have stopped what was going on.

Abu entered from the back of the tent, not from the front, so even if there had been any guards they wouldn't have seen him. I'm sure he came from the back because Carter's sleeping area was at the back and he reaches forward over her shoulder to hold the knife to her throat. If he'd come through the entrance, she'd have been awake before he reached her and she'd have been able to defend herself.

And it wasn't a matter of tribal politics. At that point, as far as I remember, SG-1 weren't fully aware of the situation between the Shavadai and the Toughai. (I could be wrong.) I don't think Jack expected Abu to do what he did and Abu's father was as shocked as the rest of SG-1. Taking a guest probably goes against tribal rules of hospitality, even if the guest is 'only' a woman.

[captain jake]

Abu entered from the back of the tent, not from the front, so even if there had been any guards they wouldn't have seen him. I'm sure he came from the back because Carter's sleeping area was at the back and he reaches forward over her shoulder to hold the knife to her throat. If he'd come through the entrance, she'd have been awake before he reached her and she'd have been able to defend herself.

And it wasn't a matter of tribal politics. At that point, as far as I remember, SG-1 weren't fully aware of the situation between the Shavadai and the Toughai. (I could be wrong.) I don't think Jack expected Abu to do what he did and Abu's father was as shocked as the rest of SG-1. Taking a guest probably goes against tribal rules of hospitality, even if the guest is 'only' a woman.

So I am supposed to believe that guards would only guard the entrance of a cloth tent? They would be walking patrols around the general area, not standing in front of the entrance. He was able to get around the guard patrols because he was the son of the chieftain.

You need to re-think the second part of your post because I have no idea what your talking about.

[Cheerful Dragon]

So I am supposed to believe that guards would only guard the entrance of a cloth tent? They would be walking patrols around the general area, not standing in front of the entrance. He was able to get around the guard patrols because he was the son of the chieftain.

You need to re-think the second part of your post because I have no idea what your talking about.

Firstly, we have no way of knowing that there were any guards at all. From what I can tell about those 'Mongols', nobody would enter a woman's tent unless they were women or male family members - husband, father, brothers. It was taboo to even look at the face of a strange woman. Remember Abu's reaction when he realised Carter was a woman? He held up his hand and looked away so that he couldn't see her face. There probably would have been no need to guard the tent. And, yes, guards often would just guard the entrance. Nobody would be expected to enter by any other route. Even if there were walking patrols those can be got round if you know their routine, and if you are patient. Walking patrols would guard the whole camp, not just one tent. I don't see why guards would be patrolling round the tent of a single strange woman anyway. Based on the culture as depicted, she wouldn't be regarded as important enough to be guarded. I don't think being the chieftains son would necessarily have any bearing on Abu's ability to get in.

Regarding the second part of my post, you said in a previous post "You think Jack left carter alone because he didn't take tribal politics into account?" Jack, as far as I can tell, didn't know about the tribal politics. He certainly didn't think that Carter would be abducted. Many old cultures, particularly nomadic ones like the Mongols and the early Arabs, had traditions of hospitality to travellers. While somebody was staying with you as a guest, their lives and property were virtually sacred. They were not attacked or robbed. That's what I meant by the father being shocked and rules of hospitality being broken.

If that's not what you don't understand, let me know.

[scarimor]

It is precisely because you don't know the ins and outs of an encounter (the tribal "politics", the cultural norms, the tactical situation, etc.) that you should stick together and watch each others backs as a best preparation for all eventualities.

[Cheerful Dragon]

It is precisely because you don't know the ins and outs of an encounter (the tribal "politics", the cultural norms, the tactical situation, etc.) that you should stick together and watch each others backs as a best preparation for all eventualities.

I agree that Jack shouldn't have left Carter on her own, but I can think of several reasons why it happened. One of the 'cultural norms' may have been that no man should enter a woman's tent unless they were married or family members. The chieftain may have offered assurances that Carter would not be harmed, both because of the taboo on entering a woman's tent and because of the rules of hospitality. Even so, Jack could have explained that it's an Earth 'cultural norm' that no woman is left unprotected at night. And if Daniel tried to force them to go along with the tribe's 'cultural norms', Jack would have been within his rights to override him.

Of course, we don't know what went on at the 'party' Carter wasn't allowed to attend. It may have been that the rest of the team ended up so 'out of it' that they fell asleep where they were, or had to be guided to a tent to sleep it off.

[captain jake]

Ok here is my straight and simple opinion no complicated long post.

Captain Samantha Carter was captured by an unforeseeable enemy. It was not the fault of Colonel Jack O'Neill, Teal'c, or Daniel Jackson all of whom were sleeping at the time of the abduction. It was their swift action that lead to the extraction and safe revival of Samantha Carter. However, as commander of SG-1 Colonel O'Neill should have taken it upon himself to fight Turghan in order to save Nya. I believe this mistake was out of character for Colonel Jack O'Neill therefore he shouldn't be reprimanded in any way. Though I did find it odd.

[Pic]

Ok here is my straight and simple opinion no complicated long post.

Captain Samantha Carter was captured by an unforeseeable enemy. It was not the fault of Colonel Jack O'Neill, Teal'c, or Daniel Jackson all of whom were sleeping at the time of the abduction. It was their swift action that lead to the extraction and safe revival of Samantha Carter. However, as commander of SG-1 Colonel O'Neill should have taken it upon himself to fight Turghan in order to save Nya. I believe this mistake was out of character for Colonel Jack O'Neill therefore he shouldn't be reprimanded in any way. Though I did find it odd.

Well, Daniel had already told them that Sam was a chieftain and needed by her tribe. They couldn't very well go back on that. As painful as the gender oppression in this episode was, I don't think they could've ended it any other way.
I think having O'Neill fight Turghan would've been the absolute wrong message to send (to the fictional tribe of Mongols as well as to fans). I think they were trying to say "Yes, she's a woman and she's a Captain in the military" with everything that comes along with that. Not, "We've got seven-of-nine" kind of female-cyborg-strength in a sexy-cat-suit thing going on, but Jack is our hero and he'll be the only one to save the day.

[captain jake]

Well, Daniel had already told them that Sam was a chieftain and needed by her tribe. They couldn't very well go back on that. As painful as the gender oppression in this episode was, I don't think they could've ended it any other way.
I think having O'Neill fight Turghan would've been the absolute wrong message to send (to the fictional tribe of Mongols as well as to fans). I think they were trying to say "Yes, she's a woman and she's a Captain in the military" with everything that comes along with that. Not, "We've got seven-of-nine" kind of female-cyborg-strength in a sexy-cat-suit thing going on, but Jack is our hero and he'll be the only one to save the day.

That was the problem with this episode, they were worrying about sending a message and forgot about being realistic. Jack O'Neill should have dealt with the situation as the commanding officer.

[L E E]

IMO, Jack should have posted one person to watch Carter's six. Not because she's female. But because she is a member of his team and they are in a strange territory no matter how friendly the people are. This is SOP, isn't it?

[Pic]

IMO, Jack should have posted one person to watch Carter's six. Not because she's female. But because she is a member of his team and they are in a strange territory no matter how friendly the people are. This is SOP, isn't it?

Probably, but it wouldn't have fit in with the plot I suppose...

[L E E]

Probably, but it wouldn't have fit in with the plot I suppose...

Oh yes. The PLOT.