Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Appreciation Thread

[Stef]

I think you'll find all kinds here. I'd guess most of us are either ambivalent or pro Daniel/Vala, with only a few who are really AGAINST it... except in the games . I know personally for me it's because I view it as the only other 'real' ship, since JM himself said he's a D/V shipper as well as an S/J and has intentionally written both relationships, and I also don't think on the show it's a question of one or the other but which one are the actors and stories there to support at the moment. But I know some disagree...

As for C/S, it does enflame some around here, but while I'll never understand it anymore than I understand D/S or even J/D, I'd hope most of us have enough sense not to feel threatened by other fan's fun

Thanks Sorry if I rattled anyone with a C/S mention. I'm so used to the Vala free-love policy Hopefully I didn't cause too much damage!!

I guess I've been a little hesitant about posting in here because I've had some negative experiences with some staunchly anti-DV, S/J shippers and the last thing I wanted to do was get into an argument in your thread Thanks for the kind words and reassurances.

Great picture, luvnjack

-Stef

[dipsofjazz]

Hun, do you even know text-speak for that? 'Cause I sure don't!

hehehehe no.

i luv jck

[Rachel500]

On Mitchell...

I actually really like Mitchell as a character and always have. Setting aside the decision to write the new male lead as the SG1 leader (which I'll never be happy about) and the whole breaking up of SG1 (which came a bit out of left field and had no set up story-wise although made sense from the events of the end of S8), I actually thought Avalon did a fair enough job of introducing him (helped by the fact we got unexpected little cameos from Jack and Sam) and I thought BB did a great job of playing Mitchell as a guy who had expected to join a team and learn from the best, who was so excited at being part of that, and who got his feet yanked right out from under him, and who desperately wants to get the team he wanted to join back together.

I fully expected that the beginning of S9 would be Mitchell-centric. He was the new lead, a new character. I fully expected that there would be stories centering around him and building his relationship with the rest of the team present to embed him. I actually thought that given AT was on maternity leave (and oh, congrats by the way B!) that they would have utilised the opportunity of her absence to showcase Mitchell; that once she came back, there would be a return to the more balanced team episodes. What I was slightly taken aback by was how much the stories post Avalon II focused on Vala, who at that point, was only supposed to be there to be as a temporary stop-gap as CB was covering AT's maternity leave.

Effectively, we got Avalon I and II introducing Mitchell, he was relegated to sub-plot in Origin, team player in The Ties That Bind and bit part player in The Powers That Be. Beachhead even focused more on Vala's exit than it did on Sam's return. I like Vala but I couldn't understand why when they had a new character with Mitchell they were spending so much time exploring a character who from everything I knew at the time of watching was meant to be temporary.

Of course, once Vala left, there were a couple of episodes focusing on Mitchell because the poor thing had been ignored, and the stories focusing on the others just seem particularly weak - The Fourth Horsemen which is supposed to be a Sam story, IMO, is the worst two-part episode they have ever written.

Neither was the writing of Mitchell very consistent and there was a return to writing the others as archetypes rather than as the rounded characters I knew and loved (Sam was far too often simply, Science Girl, Daniel - Geek guy, Teal'c - alien warrior with big guns), and the friendship and relationships between the original three rarely showcased to pander (IMO) to the new audience they thought they were capturing with the refreshed show.

I'm not a fan of the writing or production decisions in early-mid S9. I can understand why they wanted the new male lead to be SG1 leader as typically the lead is and I can understand that by breaking the team up and Mitchell getting them back together, it was meant to make Mitchell more endearing to the audience (boy did they misjudge that) because the audience was meant to identify with Mitchell; I even understand why they wanted to write Mitchell differently to Jonas.

They had already done the 'newbie struggling to be accepted' thing with Jonas but the problem was that they didn't set up the background relationships strong enough to make their acceptance of him and more importantly his command realistic. Yes, they were grateful he saved their butts in Antarctica; yes, they may have known him through the 302 programme but seriously if they knew him well enough to know his skills and accept him as a commander shouldn't Sam have known his sign-name was Shaft?

But I have to say some of the episodes in the back half of S9 are great and written/produced with much the same quality as much of SG1 as a whole. I actually think S10 was a very good season and I was impressed with the writing again in S10 (although there was the one or two epis just like always that were abit meh), and both Vala and Mitchell were much more consistently written in S10 (IMO). My only issue with S10 is that while I expected the beginning to be Vala heavy (and it was), I wasn't quite expecting the back end to be the same and by the virtue of the stories they told to finish the season it was. But hey. At least there was some good Mitchell, Sam, Daniel and even Teal'c moments within the rest of the season that made up for it - and of course, the return of Jack even if (200 aside) it was only 1 episode on SG1

[Bucky]

Aaaaaw!

Awww, indeed.

Thanks for posting that. I know I should have taken off the tags, but I just like looking at it.

Bucky

[dipsofjazz]

I think you'll find all kinds here. I'd guess most of us are either ambivalent or pro Daniel/Vala, with only a few who are really AGAINST it... except in the games . I know personally for me it's because I view it as the only other 'real' ship, since JM himself said he's a D/V shipper as well as an S/J and has intentionally written both relationships, and I also don't think on the show it's a question of one or the other but which one are the actors and stories there to support at the moment. But I know some disagree...

As for C/S, it does enflame some around here, but while I'll never understand it anymore than I understand D/S or even J/D, I'd hope most of us have enough sense not to feel threatened by other fan's fun

For me, personally, I don't care what ship other fans like. They can all have their own fun whilst we have our fun with Sam and Jack.

[AstraPerAspera]

Ah, the 24000 dollar question. Um. This is why I've almost completely stopped shipping for TV shows. Because you KNOW if they get together before the end of the series something TERRIBLE is going to happen to drive them apart. And when it's not the Secret Other Spouse (and this includes people I married while drunk in Vegas) - which is what it is about 90% of the time - or the newly formed Other Relationship, or the Sudden Discovery that workmates shouldn't date...

Um. What did you say?

Yes. I think the answer is Yes. I kept waiting for it during Threads after the Always scene and it's almost why I breathed a sigh of relief at the beginning of S9 when they DIDN'T make an issue of Sam and Jack being together. Cause if they had, it would have almost certainly meant a Ship Plot Device was sure to follow. (italicized portions sub chapters in text book at How To Write for TV school in the chapter Ship Plot Devices )

Of course, you do have to give originality points for the following:
1) Woman is really a frog eating clone
2) Man turns into evil vampire when happy

and my personal favorite of all time that had me laughing so hard I quite nearly fell off the sofa:

It's Against The Rules of The Powers That Be.

Cause, it is, you know.

EDIT: I can't believe I left out, "It's for your own good, being with me is too dangerous..."

EDIT2: Also, "Woman got taken over by parasitic worm" is awfully good, to. Cause that was the first time, really. Though I think Daniel's excuse, "I'd have a girlfriend but she hasn't recovered from being taken over by a parasitic worm yet" may be growing as thin as "Then I died... But I got better."

I think I'd LOL too...if it all weren't so close to the truth....

Guess maybe I'm glad TPTB have left most of S9/10 to our imaginations...

EDIT: Okay...maybe not that glad, but still....

[dipsofjazz]

Ah, the 24000 dollar question. Um. This is why I've almost completely stopped shipping for TV shows. Because you KNOW if they get together before the end of the series something TERRIBLE is going to happen to drive them apart. And when it's not the Secret Other Spouse (and this includes people I married while drunk in Vegas) - which is what it is about 90% of the time - or the newly formed Other Relationship, or the Sudden Discovery that workmates shouldn't date...

Um. What did you say?

Yes. I think the answer is Yes. I kept waiting for it during Threads after the Always scene and it's almost why I breathed a sigh of relief at the beginning of S9 when they DIDN'T make an issue of Sam and Jack being together. Cause if they had, it would have almost certainly meant a Ship Plot Device was sure to follow. (italicized portions sub chapters in text book at How To Write for TV school in the chapter Ship Plot Devices )

Of course, you do have to give originality points for the following:
1) Woman is really a frog eating clone
2) Man turns into evil vampire when happy

and my personal favorite of all time that had me laughing so hard I quite nearly fell off the sofa:

It's Against The Rules of The Powers That Be.

Cause, it is, you know.

EDIT: I can't believe I left out, "It's for your own good, being with me is too dangerous..."

EDIT2: Also, "Woman got taken over by parasitic worm" is awfully good, to. Cause that was the first time, really. Though I think Daniel's excuse, "I'd have a girlfriend but she hasn't recovered from being taken over by a parasitic worm yet" may be growing as thin as "Then I died... But I got better."

LOL! I think you've covered everything except amnesia.

[AstraPerAspera]

LOL! I think you've covered everything except amnesia.

Wait...amnesia is a perfectly good plot device...!

[Nolamom]

"Then I died... But I got better."

has got to be the thinnest excuse by now...

[gater62]

Awww, I was just too late to vote. But I kind of hoped the fav ship pics thingy game was the last, cause I'm a little game tired (he he, hard to believe eh).

I've been reading some fanfic lately, thought I would recommend:

Unhappy Ever After by Suz (rated R, put a big grin on my face)
Holy! Matrimony by Suz
Character by shiny silver grl (I've recced it before, but for the newbies, it's great)
Jojo6 has great stories, I think Anne recced some stories on Shipday, and I've been reading a lot of them now, nice humorous fic

And B!!! Congrats hon, wonderful news

Thank you for posting those links! I am always looking to read ff (I'm going to be bad when school starts back up) and I'm looking forward to going through these!

[dipsofjazz]

On Mitchell...


<placed in spoilers for length>

Spoiler:

I actually really like Mitchell as a character and always have. Setting aside the decision to write the new male lead as the SG1 leader (which I'll never be happy about) and the whole breaking up of SG1 (which came a bit out of left field and had no set up story-wise although made sense from the events of the end of S8), I actually thought Avalon did a fair enough job of introducing him (helped by the fact we got unexpected little cameos from Jack and Sam) and I thought BB did a great job of playing Mitchell as a guy who had expected to join a team and learn from the best, who was so excited at being part of that, and who got his feet yanked right out from under him, and who desperately wants to get the team he wanted to join back together.

I fully expected that the beginning of S9 would be Mitchell-centric. He was the new lead, a new character. I fully expected that there would be stories centering around him and building his relationship with the rest of the team present to embed him. I actually thought that given AT was on maternity leave (and oh, congrats by the way B!) that they would have utilised the opportunity of her absence to showcase Mitchell; that once she came back, there would be a return to the more balanced team episodes. What I was slightly taken aback by was how much the stories post Avalon II focused on Vala, who at that point, was only supposed to be there to be as a temporary stop-gap as CB was covering AT's maternity leave.

Effectively, we got Avalon I and II introducing Mitchell, he was relegated to sub-plot in Origin, team player in The Ties That Bind and bit part player in The Powers That Be. Beachhead even focused more on Vala's exit than it did on Sam's return. I like Vala but I couldn't understand why when they had a new character with Mitchell they were spending so much time exploring a character who from everything I knew at the time of watching was meant to be temporary.

Of course, once Vala left, there were a couple of episodes focusing on Mitchell because the poor thing had been ignored, and the stories focusing on the others just seem particularly weak - The Fourth Horsemen which is supposed to be a Sam story, IMO, is the worst two-part episode they have ever written.

Neither was the writing of Mitchell very consistent and there was a return to writing the others as archetypes rather than as the rounded characters I knew and loved (Sam was far too often simply, Science Girl, Daniel - Geek guy, Teal'c - alien warrior with big guns), and the friendship and relationships between the original three rarely showcased to pander (IMO) to the new audience they thought they were capturing with the refreshed show.

I'm not a fan of the writing or production decisions in early-mid S9. I can understand why they wanted the new male lead to be SG1 leader as typically the lead is and I can understand that by breaking the team up and Mitchell getting them back together, it was meant to make Mitchell more endearing to the audience (boy did they misjudge that) because the audience was meant to identify with Mitchell; I even understand why they wanted to write Mitchell differently to Jonas.

They had already done the 'newbie struggling to be accepted' thing with Jonas but the problem was that they didn't set up the background relationships strong enough to make their acceptance of him and more importantly his command realistic. Yes, they were grateful he saved their butts in Antarctica; yes, they may have known him through the 302 programme but seriously if they knew him well enough to know his skills and accept him as a commander shouldn't Sam have known his sign-name was Shaft?

But I have to say some of the episodes in the back half of S9 are great and written/produced with much the same quality as much of SG1 as a whole. I actually think S10 was a very good season and I was impressed with the writing again in S10 (although there was the one or two epis just like always that were abit meh), and both Vala and Mitchell were much more consistently written in S10 (IMO). My only issue with S10 is that while I expected the beginning to be Vala heavy (and it was), I wasn't quite expecting the back end to be the same and by the virtue of the stories they told to finish the season it was. But hey. At least there was some good Mitchell, Sam, Daniel and even Teal'c moments within the rest of the season that made up for it - and of course, the return of Jack even if (200 aside) it was only 1 episode on SG1

I can't get past the fact that they gave the flag-ship team to a newbie who had never see the gate before! ( plus all the stuff you wrote Rachel.)

Why, oh why, didn't they have him as a member of SG-20 or something. At least we would know he'd been through the gate and had some experience.


I just can't get past this, so no matter how they wrote Mitchell after his introduction, the damage had been done, as far as I'm concerned.

[PengYn]

LOL! I think you've covered everything except amnesia.

Except that just before that has to come the "My father's been missing in action since I was five, no one has seen him since, and I can't be involved with anyone until I solve this mystery and lay him to rest as a hero" quest.

[Caladria]

Thanks Sorry if I rattled anyone with a C/S mention. I'm so used to the Vala free-love policy Hopefully I didn't cause too much damage!!

I guess I've been a little hesitant about posting in here because I've had some negative experiences with some staunchly anti-DV, S/J shippers and the last thing I wanted to do was get into an argument in your thread Thanks for the kind words and reassurances.

Great picture, luvnjack

-Stef

*waves a welcome*

Except that just before that has to come the "My father's been missing in action since I was five, no one has seen him since, and I can't be involved with anyone until I solve this mystery and lay him to rest as a hero" quest.

Has no one mentioned "...But we're secretly related!" ??

[dipsofjazz]

Has no one mentioned "...But we're secretly related!" ??

Nnooooo!!!


Thank goodness they didn't go there!

[AstraPerAspera]

Sciffy Alert: It's Entity today people...