Daniel Jackson/Vala Mal Doran Ship/Discussion/Appreciation Thread

[MerryK]

What behaviour? I really hate this "Humans are SUPERIOR" attitude...

And I really didn't like BH because it wasn't at all consistent with the previous episodes. Yeah, Vala was a pest a lot but if you look at the two eps before, TTTB and TPTB (the latter in particular), their relationship had already started changing to something more mutual and understanding. Then, in BH, suddenly we see a return to Daniel's attitude in the Avalons without any visible provocation that would warrant such a reaction on Vala's part. I mean, I guess it's possible that "something" happened behind the scenes but even if there was, you'd think there would be at least a tiny allusion to it in the ep. I just think BW used the Vala stereotype and his bias against Daniel/Vala to write his episode because it's pretty OOC for anyone who has watched the eps right before it (which I doubt he had). JMHO...

The behavior I was referring to was her constant trickery. Yes, Vala made amazing headway in TTTB and TPTB compared to PU and Avalon, but even in those and especially in the former, she still lied and tricked them successfully. And having been around someone like that in real life, no matter how wonderful they are when truthful, those dishonest moments tend to rip down any progress they've made, and drive you nuts. And if they don't try to improve, eventually you stop caring.

So Beachhead makes total sense to me, given Vala's previous behavior—she hasn't proven herself nearly enough to make up for the constant lies, and Daniel is hardly the most patient man in the world. I see hurt driving his reactions to her, just like in Unending, and if she hadn't proved herself in BH and Crusade, I wouldn't still be shipping them because I don't think he could take that for much longer. Yes, it feels a tad awkward, but that's because we only get little glimpses of what goes on for these characters—it only took me a second watching of BH to realize exactly what was going on.

I love Vala for who she is, but that's because I don't have to live with her. So I like it when her faults are acknowledged on the show.

[natalia]

*pops in*

it's a good thing I don't have a credit card *is checking out MS's charity auction*

...someone needs to buy this for me lol: signed pic

[CrazyLikeaFox]

So spoilers are out for the movie? So tempting.......but I won't!!!

Oh Brad Wright *shakes head* He gave us Atlantis but still my god! I want this movie to be good darn it!

(I'll be checking the spoilers in a few hours my self restraint isn't that great)

[StargateHERO]

Anyway back to Devilish just wondering what is everyone's fav ep for D/V in season ten and then their fav ep of the season?

For D/V mine is Memento Mori but my actual fav ep is either Bad Guys or 200. What about all you?

my favorite D/V ep is definitely Memento Mori (i actually just finished watching it again!) and i'd have to say my fav episodes for season ten are "Bad Guys" "The Pegasus Project" and "Memento Mori" as well.

[Milena_D]

Well, Ishtar and her crew needed symbiotes. But, Teal'c and co have long lives up to three times a human lifespan, even when they get the Tritonin and they definitely have a sense of being a people apart. They don't just become other humans, they operate from a Jaffa nation stance in galaxy politics. I agree, that doesn't necessary make them other than human, only that they have a ethnic identity distinct from just being human.

Mag

Oh, did she? I can't remember that episode much but it would make sense because she was like a Grand Priestess right? You're right though, I'm not sure how they can have triple lifespans without the actual symbiote...I thought tritonin just kind of gave them back a pseudo immune system...

As to them having a distinct ethnic identity, we could say that of any culture on Earth, no? We have very distinct groups in different geographical locations but they still remain Humans in the phylogeny of life because of their morphology, internal systems, etc (if we're looking at this from a biological perspective). And the symbiotes can be classified as parasites in a symbiotic relationship.

The behavior I was referring to was her constant trickery. Yes, Vala made amazing headway in TTTB and TPTB compared to PU and Avalon, but even in those and especially in the former, she still lied and tricked them successfully. And having been around someone like that in real life, no matter how wonderful they are when truthful, those dishonest moments tend to rip down any progress they've made, and drive you nuts. And if they don't try to improve, eventually you stop caring.

So Beachhead makes total sense to me, given Vala's previous behavior—she hasn't proven herself nearly enough to make up for the constant lies, and Daniel is hardly the most patient man in the world. I see hurt driving his reactions to her, just like in Unending, and if she hadn't proved herself in BH and Crusade, I wouldn't still be shipping them because I don't think he could take that for much longer. Yes, it feels a tad awkward, but that's because we only get little glimpses of what goes on for these characters—it only took me a second watching of BH to realize exactly what was going on.

I love Vala for who she is, but that's because I don't have to live with her. So I like it when her faults are acknowledged on the show.

This is just my opinion, but I still don't see BH making sense. You're right about the build-up of tricks and such but I think that until the end of TPTB, Daniel had a specific stereotype image of Vala in his mind but her behaviour near the end of that ep made a huuuge dent in that image. And to support that idea is the very first SG-1 scene of BH in which they're playing basketball in seemingly complete ease and friendship. If you'd started watching the series at that moment, you wouldn't think for a moment that Vala wasn't an accepted member of the team. It's only in later scenes that the coldness comes back (some like to point out that it's when Sam came into the scenes but I never really thought she was the reason). And then Daniel's jerk-ness just snowballs from there until he says things I never ever thought he would say to someone he's been through so much with, very OOC things. Again, jmho.

[CrazyLikeaFox]

I have to admit when I first watched BH I didn't think too much of it. Yeah Daniel was a jerk but I didn't think it was a big deal. Then I watched it with all you fruitcakes and actually saw more than last time. Vala trying to help and them not listening is a big pet peeve of mine for this episode. Love what Vala said about the stargating club though its completely true. The back up singer comment though was a little annoying.

[Stef]

The behavior I was referring to was her constant trickery. Yes, Vala made amazing headway in TTTB and TPTB compared to PU and Avalon, but even in those and especially in the former, she still lied and tricked them successfully. And having been around someone like that in real life, no matter how wonderful they are when truthful, those dishonest moments tend to rip down any progress they've made, and drive you nuts. And if they don't try to improve, eventually you stop caring.

So Beachhead makes total sense to me, given Vala's previous behavior—she hasn't proven herself nearly enough to make up for the constant lies, and Daniel is hardly the most patient man in the world. I see hurt driving his reactions to her, just like in Unending, and if she hadn't proved herself in BH and Crusade, I wouldn't still be shipping them because I don't think he could take that for much longer. Yes, it feels a tad awkward, but that's because we only get little glimpses of what goes on for these characters—it only took me a second watching of BH to realize exactly what was going on.

I love Vala for who she is, but that's because I don't have to live with her. So I like it when her faults are acknowledged on the show.

Hey-o, people...WATCH OUT!! Here comes my loooooong and rambling analysis on BH. See what happens when you start discussing things??

You know, I've never been overly keen on the argument that "something happened off-screen" or "he's scared of getting too close." Perhaps it's because I honestly don't think the writers care that much about their characters to spend hours thinking about what they do on their down time (unlike fans) - or how they're reeling from the last episode's events (unless a character dies...and even then they tend to gloss over stuff like that *cough* SGA *cough*). I love SG-1, I do, but continuity of emotion is just not one of their strengths. I mean, whoever wrote CoT was not writing Daniel as a jerk because they thought that after MM he would be afraid emotionally of getting too close to Vala - they were writing him that way because that's what they felt that episode needed. And I truly believe that that's the case with BW. From what I've seen of his writing, he tends to write "big" story driven episodes...ones that focus on ideas rather than characters. This is why I rarely like his episodes. They're technically great but emotionally cold.

I don't think Daniel was a jerk in BH because he was hurt or because he was annoyed, I think he was a jerk because BW wanted to make Vala's efforts look all the more heroic - and in order to do that he needed to show her being taken for granted. Now that idea is all well and good, but I believe it was taken too far. Daniel was annoyed and irritated with her in Avalon and TTTB and that was fine with me cause Vala was being her usual "charming" self. But he was meaner to her in BH than pretty much any episode of S9 (or 10 for that matter) and it didn't make sense. If TTTB was the episode before this, perhaps is might have. If Vala had done something annoying at the beginning of the episode, perhaps it might have. But to start out with the team playing basketball and having fun and enjoying each other's company and then to jump immediately into "Why are you here? Shut up, Vala" is jarring and makes the contrast in attitudes all the more clear.

Now am I saying that Vala is a hero and a saint and that nobody has any right to be annoyed with her? Absolutely not. Vala has and probably always will have a somewhat grating personality - it's part of her charm. But Daniel's reactions, in my opinion, were OOC in both regards to the context and the character. Honestly, part of me is glad that there won't be much (if any) D/V in Continuum. At least BW won't have the opportunity to butcher D/V anymore than he has in the past...and if this truly is the last movie with Vala (as BW would clearly prefer) then at least I can go out with the positive feelings I had towards D/V in AoT. Despite that movie's imperfections, I think RCC understands the fine line between annoyance and affection for this couple. The Avalons, Flesh & Blood, The Shroud, and AoT are all prime examples of the D/V that I love. They can bicker and banter but there's also an underlying "depth of emotion" there that I usually feel RCC captures....whereas BW does not.

But that's just my take. Clearly we all have different perspectives. In this regard, mine tends to favor the more cynical outlook on the creative processes that go into creating an episode

-Stef

[LC_]

Okay, so the person who is answering questions and what-not on IMDB posted this in regards to D/V...

Spoiler:

"There was no moment between Qetesh and Daniel, nor between Vala and Daniel (save for the usual...)."

...and I wonder about what "the usual" means.

Oh, and as for Qetesh...

Spoiler:

Ha! OMG! I'm sorry, I just can't wrap my head around ninja!CB But Cam sounds pretty badass for at least one scene in this movie.

-Stef

If you're talking about that bit

Spoiler:

about Qetesh killing Ba'al, that just vindicated what I had been thinking all along about the sneaky look on Qetesh's face at times...she was definitely planning something, I kept wondering if she was planning on killing Ba'al...so my reaction to that was "HA! I thought so!"...also wonder if that was completely Qetesh wanting him dead to take all his power OR if part of that was Vala...and there's another thing I keep wondering...are there any glimpses of Vala under Qetesh's persona.

LC

[LC_]

I always think of a Jaffa as a large orange, chuckles.

hahahahahahaha...showing your age there Mag,
I was just explaining about Jaffa oranges to my kids earlier today...do you remember if were they from Egypt or Israel?
LC

[LC_]

Hey-o, people...WATCH OUT!! Here comes my loooooong and rambling analysis on BH. See what happens when you start discussing things??

You know, I've never been overly keen on the argument that "something happened off-screen" or "he's scared of getting too close." Perhaps it's because I honestly don't think the writers care that much about their characters to spend hours thinking about what they do on their down time (unlike fans) - or how they're reeling from the last episode's events (unless a character dies...and even then they tend to gloss over stuff like that *cough* SGA *cough*). I love SG-1, I do, but continuity of emotion is just not one of their strengths. I mean, whoever wrote CoT was not writing Daniel as a jerk because they thought that after MM he would be afraid emotionally of getting too close to Vala - they were writing him that way because that's what they felt that episode needed. And I truly believe that that's the case with BW. From what I've seen of his writing, he tends to write "big" story driven episodes...ones that focus on ideas rather than characters. This is why I rarely like his episodes. They're technically great but emotionally cold.

I don't think Daniel was a jerk in BH because he was hurt or because he was annoyed, I think he was a jerk because BW wanted to make Vala's efforts look all the more heroic - and in order to do that he needed to show her being taken for granted. Now that idea is all well and good, but I believe it was taken too far. Daniel was annoyed and irritated with her in Avalon and TTTB and that was fine with me cause Vala was being her usual "charming" self. But he was meaner to her in BH than pretty much any episode of S9 (or 10 for that matter) and it didn't make sense. If TTTB was the episode before this, perhaps is might have. If Vala had done something annoying at the beginning of the episode, perhaps it might have. But to start out with the team playing basketball and having fun and enjoying each other's company and then to jump immediately into "Why are you here? Shut up, Vala" is jarring and makes the contrast in attitudes all the more clear.

Now am I saying that Vala is a hero and a saint and that nobody has any right to be annoyed with her? Absolutely not. Vala has and probably always will have a somewhat grating personality - it's part of her charm. But Daniel's reactions, in my opinion, were OOC in both regards to the context and the character. Honestly, part of me is glad that there won't be much (if any) D/V in Continuum. At least BW won't have the opportunity to butcher D/V anymore than he has in the past...and if this truly is the last movie with Vala (as BW would clearly prefer) then at least I can go out with the positive feelings I had towards D/V in AoT. Despite that movie's imperfections, I think RCC understands the fine line between annoyance and affection for this couple. The Avalons, Flesh & Blood, The Shroud, and AoT are all prime examples of the D/V that I love. They can bicker and banter but there's also an underlying "depth of emotion" there that I usually feel RCC captures....whereas BW does not.

But that's just my take. Clearly we all have different perspectives. In this regard, mine tends to favor the more cynical outlook on the creative processes that go into creating an episode

-Stef

Ya know Stef...I was gonna go into a long song and dance in response to Milena, about Daniel's behaviour after the Bball scene in BH being not terribly different from his sudden change in behaviour between MM and CoT(the whole 'pushing away' because he realizes just how close they are becoming) BUT in light of what's you've just said, I can't....because EVERYTHING you've just said is ABSOLUTELY TRUE!
And I think I'm also agreeing about the lack of DV emotional interaction in Continuum....at least BW hasn't hacked it to death completely...we've still got what we were left with at the end of AoT....just wish I understood at this point, WTH BW meant about them remembering the old timeline...
LC

[CrazyLikeaFox]

Clearly LC he's trying to screw with our collective heads.

[natalia]

Clearly LC he's trying to screw with our collective heads.

lol. well i've given him a head start with my head cause it's already pretty screwed up *stares at fic* yeah. it's pretty screwed up *rolls eyes at self*


annnnd some pretty:

[CrazyLikeaFox]

Fic forthcoming Nat???? We love your fics BTW OT but if are any of you guys are DW fans? Cause I just watched the latest ep and OMFG!!!!

That is all.

[natalia]

Fic forthcoming Nat???? We love your fics BTW OT but if are any of you guys are DW fans? Cause I just watched the latest ep and OMFG!!!!

That is all.

lol well it's trying to be forthcoming having focus issues at the moment though

[Stef]

I just found this over at Kawoosh! and I thought I would rec it here eventhough it's technically a Vala + Team video. Still, Daniel is part of the team so it works This one made me go "aw" a couple of times, which I assure you is not an easy task. As a vidder myself I tend to be kinda picky about videos But whether it's my mood right now or the fact that I haven't seen a Vala/Team video in awhile, I really enjoyed this. Take a gander if/when you get the chance

VID PIMP!!

Vid Title: Home
Song Title: This is Home
Song Artist: Switchfoot
Link: DOWNLOAD LINK, FEEDBACK LINK

Remember guys, comments are just as much needed for vidders as they are for ficcers. So if you like this, please drop this person a comment about it if you can!

-Stef