Daniel Jackson/Vala Mal Doran Ship/Discussion/Appreciation Thread

[valaCB]

That's so sweet! It looks like they are shopping for a house in the suburbs.

Later,
Graculus

lol.

[Margaret]

That's so sweet! It looks like they are shopping for a house in the suburbs.

It looks like the 15-year-old just ran over his brother's tricycle, which was left in the driveway.

[graculus]

I thought it has something to do with property value inflation near good school districts...

Later,
Graculus

[courser]

It looks like the 15-year-old just ran over his brother's tricycle, which was left in the driveway.

ROFL! I hadn't thought of that, but you're right!

Peace out
Courser

[graculus]

This moment occurs right before Vala thumps Daniel over the head with her club and drags him off to her pirate lair...

Later,
Graculus

[Margaret]

Darn, cornered myself. I don't want to defend Rumsfeld, lol. But I do think desperate people will do anything, and it's pointless for people who are not desperate (or a considerably less desperate) to tell them what they *should* do. That's people in a comfortable position telling other people what to do to continue to make the world comfortable for them when they have no motivation in the least to get off their sofas and expand those conditions of comfort. If Vala has been mistreated and cut off from the resources of survival than anything goes.



I think Daniel's seen a lot in the military. He's also seen a lot of subjugated peoples and their various reactions to conquest and deprivation. I think he will extend Vala some leeway.



One of the things I like about Daniel as a character is that he does respond to being hurt, he doesn't always take the high road, and he does things that he's not comfortable with to do his job. He's not an angel, but in a way I think that humanity makes him more tolerant of other people.

I think Daniel has a lot of insight into people's motivations. He seems to read people pretty well, he seems to know what makes them tick.

I don't believe that is a result of his own lapses in ethics but because he is able to put himself in another's shoes, as it were; to see sympathetically. I don't think that would lead him to excuse Vala's behavior. But it is possible that he would understand it. Daniel is capable of understanding someone as a separate issue from passing judgement on them.

For instance, in Singularity, Sam wails, "How could someone *do* such a thing to a little girl?"

And Daniel launches into an explanation: "To the Goa'uld, she is not as we see her. She's just the means to an end . . . " (And Sam looks at him funny.)

That doesn't mean he's excusing the Goa'uld. It just means that he's capable of understanding another point of view, even one that is readically opposed to his own.

So. while it is possible that Daniel might have some sympathy for Vala's plight if she truly is in a difficulty, that ability comes from the ability to see things through the eyes of another, not from some failure of morality on his part that excuses Vala's own.

[graculus]

I think Daniel has a lot of insight into people's motivations. He seems to read people pretty well, he seems to know what makes them tick.

True.

I don't believe that is a result of his own lapses in ethics but because he is able to put himself in another's shoes, as it were; to see sympathetically.

I don't think it's so much a lapse in ethics as the human propensity to rationalize. Daniel is as susceptible as anyone: and I like that about him not just because it keeps him from being angelic, it makes his decision to do the right thing a *real* decision, obtained through struggle with himself.

But it is possible that he would understand it. Daniel is capable of understanding someone as a separate issue from passing judgement on them.

And I will concede Daniel was not having sugar sweet thoughts of Vala as he nursed his cuts and bruises, lol...

That doesn't mean he's excusing the Goa'uld. It just means that he's capable of understanding another point of view, even one that is readically opposed to his own.

I love Daniel in Singularity! Such a friend to Sam. But I don't think Daniel's ability to follow both Goa'uld logic and Vala's logic says anything about where he puts them on his scale of empathy. I'd propose Daniel has no empathy at all toward the Goa'uld, to the point where he's capable of killing without compunction. Daniel may have empathy for Vala once he knows something about her origins.

So. while it is possible that Daniel might have some sympathy for Vala's plight if she truly is in a difficulty, that ability comes from the ability to see things through the eyes of another, not from some failure of morality on his part that excuses Vala's own.

I agree seeing through another person's eyes is not the same as sympathizing with their plight, but I don't think the possibility of sympathy (or empathy) has been excluded yet.

Later,
Graculus

[graculus]

Oh, yeah - unlike the goa'uld, Vala turns Daniel on...

[Margaret]

I love Daniel in Singularity! Such a friend to Sam. But I don't think Daniel's ability to follow both Goa'uld logic and Vala's logic says anything about where he puts them on his scale of empathy. I'd propose Daniel has no empathy at all toward the Goa'uld, to the point where he's capable of killing without compunction. Daniel may have empathy for Vala once he knows something about her origins.



I agree seeing through another person's eyes is not the same as sympathizing with their plight, but I don't think the possibility of sympathy (or empathy) has been excluded yet.

I don't think Vala is beyond Daniel's sympathy, either.

I just think that it is the ability to feel another's pain that brings us together, not one wrong excusing another.

Oh, yeah - unlike the goa'uld, Vala turns Daniel on...

Yeah, baby!

[graculus]

I just think that it is the ability to feel another's pain that brings us together, not one wrong excusing another.

I agree with this. It's possible Daniel could feel Vala's pain, though. What if she became a goa'uld in the process of trying to follow a husband, lover, or child, like Daniel did in COTG?

Later,
Graculus

[courser]

I agree with this. It's possible Daniel could feel Vala's pain, though. What if she became a goa'uld in the process of trying to follow a husband, lover, or child, like Daniel did in COTG?

Me three!

Actually, it looks to me as if a look of distaste crosses Daniel's face as Vala mentions that she was the host of the goa'uld who was captured and beaten. I don't think anything disturbs Daniel more than someone who's been taken host. I think that's a scar that runs deep and has even defined him in some respects.

So while I'm not quite sure it's sympathy exactly, I think that his compassion for that someone who's survived that is clear. It's what we love about him and yet makes him vulnerable.

Peace out
Courser

[graculus]

it looks to me as if a look of distaste crosses Daniel's face as Vala mentions that she was the host of the goa'uld who was captured and beaten. I don't think anything disturbs Daniel more than someone who's been taken host.

Ooooh! I like! Daniel would be aware this is a knee-jerk reaction on his part, and he would try to overcome that. And that would actually give Vala a better chance, since he would be looking for something to like.

So while I'm not quite sure it's sympathy exactly, I think that his compassion for that someone who's survived that is clear. It's what we love about him and yet makes him vulnerable.

I think Daniel would love people who are hard to love more.

Later,
Graculus

[courser]

Ooooh! I like! Daniel would be aware this is a knee-jerk reaction on his part, and he would try to overcome that. And that would actually give Vala a better chance, since he would be looking for something to like.

I think that was sort of the crux of the whole ep! It's what's made it so compelling, I think. Vala's the perfect foil for all that Daniel is! A brilliant bit of writing, really... She's exactly the sort of person Daniel would have compassion for - a former goa'uld host and in rather desperate straits, yet she's also strong and willful, not to mention strikingly attractive and dead set to wrench the control of Prometheus, one of Earth's most valuable assets, away from him.

Daniel is strong, stubborn and loyal, yet his compassion is the one thing she can exploit in him. And she does. She pushes all his buttons, which is really delightful to see. She's an opponent unlike any he has encountered before and she keeps him off-balance between her provocative remarks and bursts of aggression.

I think Daniel would love people who are hard to love more.

I think there's truth in this, although it can be argued that Sha're was a woman most any man could have loved. And while it's arguable whether Daniel actually loved Kira, he certainly went to bat for her in the face of rest of his team.

Personally, I've very glad to see Daniel 'paired' (more or less - it's not entirely clear yet, though I think the basic attraction is there) with a woman very different from any he has encountered before. Any interactions between them are bound to be stormy and riddled with conflict and uncertainty.

Yummy!!!

Peace out
Courser

[graculus]

Vala's the perfect foil for all that Daniel is!

The more I think about it the more I agree!

She's exactly the sort of person Daniel would have compassion for - a former goa'uld host and in rather desperate straits, yet she's also strong and willful, not to mention strikingly attractive and dead set to wrench the control of Prometheus, one of Earth's most valuable assets, away from him.

Someone he can identify with and yet find an utter challenge...

Daniel is strong, stubborn and loyal, yet his compassion is the one thing she can exploit in him. And she does. She pushes all his buttons, which is really delightful to see. She's an opponent unlike any he has encountered before and she keeps him off-balance between her provocative remarks and bursts of aggression.

Off-balance can be...[striving for a PG-13 word]...stimulating...

Sha're was a woman most any man could have loved.

I'd also argue that Daniel wants to keep Shar'e's memory sacred. He doesn't want a new Shar'e. He would only be able to build a relationship with someone really different.

Any interactions between them are bound to be stormy and riddled with conflict and uncertainty.

Yummy!!!

I second that Yummy and raise you a happy Daniel:



Later,
Graculus

[Vala]

"I liked you better tied up"
LOL
I love this ep!