Sam Carter /Jack O'Neill Ship Appreciation Thread 2.0

[hedwig]

Small thought-provoking question:

I was re-watching the movie, and during the meeting where Daniel is showing them how he figured out the Stargate...Sam had been working on it for 2 years. I know that the character of Sam Carter had not been invented by the writers at this point, but after COTG it was obvious she was VERY involved in the program. So...knowing that now...can you come up with a reasonable explaination as to why she wasn't at that meeting? She could have flown in with Gen. West and staff.

I have alterior motive...I'm working on a fic and the question just occured to me. As far as we know was there anything else going on in her life that would have prevented her from being there?

The only thing I can think of is that she was engaged to Jonas Hansen, though there's never been anything to indicate he was abusive to her. Though in numerous fics, he's portrayed as having been abusive and violent.

I do wish the writers had explained better why she hadn't been able to go on the first mission.

[SaraBahama]

The only thing I can think of is that she was engaged to Jonas Hansen, though there's never been anything to indicate he was abusive to her. Though in numerous fics, he's portrayed as having been abusive and violent.
I do wish the writers had explained better why she hadn't been able to go on the first mission.

Thx hedwig. I bet he is shown as being abusive because of Sam's comment about him wanting to be in control, and his sadistic actions in 'The First Commandment'. I always thought that her engagement to him would have pre-dated the 2 years she worked on the program? I'm open to other opinions on this -what do ya'll think?

I am insinuating that they don't want to send her because she's not expendable...they need her Earth-side in case something goes wrong. They don't want their best scientist trapped on Abydos.

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

did sam once say that she had a soft spot for the "lunatic fringe". while that may apply to hansen, i dont see our boy jack becoming that.

[hedwig]

I am insinuating that they don't want to send her because she's not expendable...they need her Earth-side in case something goes wrong. They don't want their best scientist trapped on Abydos.

That's a good idea. Or you could just have her have a broken arm or leg. That would do it.

[Everlovin]

Small thought-provoking question:

I was re-watching the movie, and during the meeting where Daniel is showing them how he figured out the Stargate...Sam had been working on it for 2 years. I know that the character of Sam Carter had not been invented by the writers at this point, but after COTG it was obvious she was VERY involved in the program. So...knowing that now...can you come up with a reasonable explaination as to why she wasn't at that meeting? She could have flown in with Gen. West and staff.

I have alterior motive...I'm working on a fic and the question just occured to me. As far as we know was there anything else going on in her life that would have prevented her from being there?

I figure it's a combination of two things. One: West was old school and didn't want women/scientists on the front line. In some of the deleted scenes of the original movie we saw some Jaffa near where they dug up the gate suggesting danger. And two: West knew that Sam was Jacob's daughter and didn't want to explain another general how he put his little girl in danger.

[hedwig]

I figure it's a combination of two things. One: West was old school and didn't want women/scientists on the front line. In some of the deleted scenes of the original movie we saw some Jaffa near where they dug up the gate suggesting danger. And two: West knew that Sam was Jacob's daughter and didn't want to explain another general how he put his little girl in danger.

Excellent points.

[Akamaimom]

It could also easily have been that, until the late '90s, having women in front line units wasn't acceptable. I was in high school (graduated in 1989) when there were huge debates on the subject. I even participated in one at the Pentagon (through the Close Up program--it's a week long study of the government for high schoolers. I don't know if it still exists). The majority of the kids said that they didn't think that women should be at the front. I (being the shrinking violet that I am), decided that the debate was boring and chose to take up the other side of things. I stood up and said that women should be able to fight if they wanted to because what could be more terrifying to an enemy than a pack full of women all cycling at the same time? The General leading the discussion gifted me with the nickname "Rambette". Sadly, it stuck for the longest time!

Even now, I don't think that there are female soldiers in the front lines, are there? Support staff, yes, but I think that's it. I'm thinking that in that time period, they would balk at having a woman--especially a woman of Sam's education and skill--put into jeopardy by sending her across the universe. If she's killed in action, all that training is lost. (Think of the investigation and conversations Woolsey had after Janet's death.) I think that it must have taken some very strong pulling of strings to get Sam into SG-1, not the other way around.

[gater62]

I agree with Akamaimom, but the attitude toward women in combat is changing. I remember when the only ships women could serve on were tenders. Now they are on virtually every combat ship in a variety of positions. It was also unheard of to have women in Iraq or Afghanistan (except as doctors or nurses), but now they are there. Sam was in the military at a time when the perceptions of women in the military were changing. But I could still see the trouble she would have being the primary expert on the Stargate, and the Pentagon not wanting to risk her on missions.

[SaraBahama]

I figure it's a combination of two things. One: West was old school and didn't want women/scientists on the front line. In some of the deleted scenes of the original movie we saw some Jaffa near where they dug up the gate suggesting danger. And two: West knew that Sam was Jacob's daughter and didn't want to explain another general how he put his little girl in danger.

Never thought of that...I may have to slip that in there, even if it's not the primary point. Thank you!

It could also easily have been that, until the late '90s, having women in front line units wasn't acceptable. I was in high school (graduated in 1989) when there were huge debates on the subject. I even participated in one at the Pentagon (through the Close Up program--it's a week long study of the government for high schoolers. I don't know if it still exists). The majority of the kids said that they didn't think that women should be at the front. I (being the shrinking violet that I am), decided that the debate was boring and chose to take up the other side of things. I stood up and said that women should be able to fight if they wanted to because what could be more terrifying to an enemy than a pack full of women all cycling at the same time? The General leading the discussion gifted me with the nickname "Rambette". Sadly, it stuck for the longest time!
Even now, I don't think that there are female soldiers in the front lines, are there? Support staff, yes, but I think that's it. I'm thinking that in that time period, they would balk at having a woman--especially a woman of Sam's education and skill--put into jeopardy by sending her across the universe. If she's killed in action, all that training is lost. (Think of the investigation and conversations Woolsey had after Janet's death.) I think that it must have taken some very strong pulling of strings to get Sam into SG-1, not the other way around.

Thanks AKA -I am close to you in age (apparently), but I'm not originally from the USA, so though in college I now remember hearing about some of the debates, I had since forgotten. Excellent points...I will keep this in mind as I'm writing my fic.

I agree with Akamaimom, but the attitude toward women in combat is changing. I remember when the only ships women could serve on were tenders. Now they are on virtually every combat ship in a variety of positions. It was also unheard of to have women in Iraq or Afghanistan (except as doctors or nurses), but now they are there. Sam was in the military at a time when the perceptions of women in the military were changing. But I could still see the trouble she would have being the primary expert on the Stargate, and the Pentagon not wanting to risk her on missions.

The attitudes have changed, and I think that you see that reflected throughout the years of the series...as time passed, more and more female soliders were seen as part of SG teams. Thaks for reminding me of the attitudes at the time I'm writing for.

You all have been great! -This is really going to help!

[Alan]

Something I made in honour of the Stargate franchise which ended its 14-year run today here in the UK:

[SaraBahama]

A song I heard today provoked a shippy mood:

Just a kiss on your lips in the moonlight
Just a touch of the fire burning so bright
And I don't want to mess this thing up
I don't want to push too far
Just a shot in the dark that you just might
Be the one I've been waiting for my whole life
So baby I'm alright, with just a kiss goodnight

I know that if we give this a little time
It'll only bring us closer to the love we wanna find
It's never felt so real, no it's never felt so right

Just a Kiss Goodnight video.

I was just thinking two days ago that I wanted to include in the next chapter of my 'Transitions' fic that Jack doesn't want to mess this 'thing' up.

Man, how I wish I could make S/J visual pretties. My computer isn't set up for it. Sorry if I induced vomiting in the thread. Just so darned shippy tonight.

[hlndncr]

So a couple of thoughts to back track and catch up a little on the discussion.

Sam not on the First Abydos mission:

I think the reality is just really prosaic. They didn't think the gate would work so they were moving out personnel and about to shut down the project. Sam was transferred to the Pentagon to work on something they thought was more important. When they did get the gate to work they didn't plan to send any scientists. They were going to send a small Special Ops strike force to blow the place and get the heck out of there, if they could. (I know in CotG Sam said she should have gone on the first Abydos mission, but I think she meant that in the sense that if I had been there working on the gate when they got it to open they would have taken me over an untrained civilian if they thought they needed someone to work the gate on the otherside. I don't think she realized when she said it that command pretty much expected it to be a one-way trip.)

They weren't going to authorize even a temporary change in assignment for one suicide mission through the gate. I seriously don't think it would have crossed anyone's mind to get Sam back or keep her away. It was just a non-issue. She wasn't there because she was already at the Pentagon. The reality of military life; people get transferred and that means sometimes you miss out on the cool stuff.

Sam's Mom:

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Sam still would have joined the Air Force had her mom lived. She wanted to get into NASA and she has a real order and rules personality. The Air Force would have been the ideal career path.

She might have been happier and more comfortable with herself as a women. Maybe not gotten into so many bad relationships (like Jonas or ). But I think Sam still would have been a good soldier.

The differences I might see?

Mark wouldn't have been estranged from his dad and might have joined the military too. (Maybe even eventually being invited to join the Stargate program.)

Jacob would never have become a Tok'ra if his wife were still alive, which means he probably would have died of cancer. (Perhaps Mark could have become the Tok'ra.)

Sam's mom would have loved Jack (and vice versa). First, Jack is a lot like Jacob. Second, Jack has the type of charm that I'm certain none of the Carter women (or any other woman for that matter) could possibly resist. I think Sam's mom would have been Jack's best ally in getting those two together.

[majorsal]

i don't enjoy watching other ships as much as i'd like. like with sanctuary's helen/john... all i feel is and , that those ships get more confirmation than we've ever got. or ever will prob...

=if i could sue someone for mismanagement, the stargate ptb would be getting papers right now. =

[yessika]

i don't enjoy watching other ships as much as i'd like. like with sanctuary's helen/john... all i feel is and , that those ships get more confirmation than we've ever got. or ever will prob...

=if i could sue someone for mismanagement, the stargate ptb would be getting papers right now. =

I'm a huge Helen/John shipper but I would be really surprised if they got confirmation since Sanctuary's PTB are as bad dealing with ships as SG-1's PTB (I'm not a happy shipper today)

[majorsal]

I'm a huge Helen/John shipper but I would be really surprised if they got confirmation since Sanctuary's PTB are as bad dealing with ships as SG-1's PTB (I'm not a happy shipper today)

same ppl actually! (but you still know what happened between them, what they meant to one another, even if it was the past)

i'm still in denial about sam/jack. i know the stargate ptb threw us under the bus, but i'm hoping for some future stargate project to at least want to mention what happened to our sg1/atlantis/sgu ppl... so i cling onto that hope. it's the *only* way to continue with this.

((())) <-- the best and most awesome ship ever!