Sam Carter /Jack O'Neill Ship Appreciation Thread 2.0

[mad_gater]

As an angst lover, I have to admit I am never disappointed with Threads but always left with the thought: "No.. it really was that good." I even like the Jaffa bits. And Daniel's anger over Oma's situation.

If I was Daniel I'd be angry too....those stupid, lazy "Others" looking for any excuse to just sit on their lazy bums and not lift a finger to help.......Kerry I'm kinda ambivalent about

[JenniferJF]

Having said that, it occurs to me that, despite that beautiful scene just as Jacob dies, we never see the point where Sam finds out Kerry is off the scene, nor do we ever see the point where Jack finds out she's ditched Pete. In a way, this is interesting because Sam's interigty as a character is maintained - she ditched Pete despite the fact the guy she really loves is, apparently, in a relationship (albiet possibly nor a serious one) with another woman. I really like the way that plays out, but I have to wonder if/how they had that "talk" where they found out they were both single and available again.

I personally think it had to be fairly soon after the Threads 'Always' scene because the intensity of that moment was such that Jack *wouldn't* have done it if he were still with Kerry. In fact I think one of the issues he was wrestling with in his office before Kerry came to speak to him was how to break things off with her, which was part of the reason for his gratitude to her for doing it for him. (That woman's got class, btw.) I think, being loyal and honest, after realizing what Sam was getting at on his back deck, he knew he couldn't go to her and be there for her in the way he wanted and needed to be without doing something about Kerry first.

Likewise, after 'Always', I don't think Jack simply left the room and Sam crying over her father's body. I think he went right to her and, in the course of the ensuing comforting, it became clear Jack was no longer with Kerry. After all, that was the *meaning* of 'Always'. And yes, I think that was necessary information even with the galactic situation and with Jacob's recent death. In fact it was necessary because of Jacob's death - if Sam didn't realize Jack and Kerry were no longer a couple there would still be that barrier between them and he couldn't *really* be there for her in the way she needed him to be.

EDIT: And as to the second half of the equation - I actually think Jack knew Sam was going to be breaking things off with Pete.

I also don't think, from the period when Jacob died until the scene in the control room with the gate, that those on Earth realized just how dire the situation was. *We* do because we saw the conversations between Anubis and Daniel and between the Jaffa, but for all they knew back on Earth IIRC, the Jaffa were attacking Anubis' main base and so I don't think it would have been that strange for Sam to have gone off base during that period. They didn't realize it was a ruse and what was really going on until Teal'c showed up at the SGC to tell them about it. This also supports the idea it all took place over a longer period than just a few hours (a day or days) as the Jaffa had to move their forces to Anubis base during that period.

EDIT2: My thoughts are totally disjointed today (which I blame to summer school starting which means trying to get 3 different kids to 8 different places simultaneously). I do disagree with you slightly, Cags, in that I don't think Sam and Jack had significant time together until *after* the control room scene but *before* the conference room scene. I think they really had down time after Anubis weapon failed in which there was nothing really to do but wait for the Jaffa to report and wipe up what remained of his forces. I think in the control room scene there is actually a HUGE amount of tension remaining between Sam and Jack and I tend to think some of their looks at each other and, in fact, Sam's hesitation to use the self-destruct are because they have decided to move their relationship forward but haven't actually had a chance to do that yet (I think she may in fact have just rushed back from breaking up with Pete upon hearing Teal'c had come back to report) and so her reactions were fueled by that.

EDIT3: Just joking.

[gater62]

Or, in other words: They can't be together but can't live without each other. How romantic.

I couldn't green you, but thanks so much!

[JackandSamAddict]

Another vid from me

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lR4_Ol5GJ9w

Loved the video. I love, love, love Casting Crowns. They are one of my favorite bands. Great job!

[trinity3]

Shippers!!!!!!


**Runs in the room and hugs everyone**

Anyways in the absence of Trin... I'm gonna ask.

Where do you think Jack and Sam had their first kiss?

I'm gonna borrow Annerb's fic (which is a part of the DC series) Sam and Jack kiss

*In the absence of Trin*

You remember me and the questions **deep sigh**

*huggles DM*

I feel so loved right now.

I think it was some time in Threads as well, at the beginning of that fishing trip at Jack's cabin, before the boys got there - their first quiet night alone.

Yeah baby!

Oh!

Great vid Dee and some very nice fic recs on that questions as well from you guys.

Thanks.

[Cagranosalis]

I personally think it had to be fairly soon after the Threads 'Always' scene because the intensity of that moment was such that Jack *wouldn't* have done it if he were still with Kerry. In fact I think one of the issues he was wrestling with in his office before Kerry came to speak to him was how to break things off with her, which was part of the reason for his gratitude to her for doing it for him. (That woman's got class, btw.) I think, being loyal and honest, after realizing what Sam was getting at on his back deck, he knew he couldn't go to her and be there for her in the way he wanted and needed to be without doing something about Kerry first.

Yes, I always thought that was Jack wondering on the dilemma. Even in that situation I can't imagine he'd feel great about giving Kerry the heave ho; he just seems like the kind of guy who really hates the thought of hurting women. Good old Kerry; I can't hate her for being so awesome and smacking him upside the head.
While I'm thinking about it, that scene where she does that, I just love the end of that; the way Jack looks up and sort of sighs, half in relief but also, I think there's a bit of trepidation there. While Kerry has removed one obstacle - and he may be thinking Sam is about to remove another - there's still a lot to be scared about in making a move and you can see the weight of that in his expression. Just beautifully acted.

Likewise, after 'Always', I don't think Jack simply left the room and Sam crying over her father's body. I think he went right to her and, in the course of the ensuing comforting, it became clear Jack was no longer with Kerry. After all, that was the *meaning* of 'Always'. And yes, I think that was necessary information even with the galactic situation and with Jacob's recent death. In fact it was necessary because of Jacob's death - if Sam didn't realize Jack and Kerry were no longer a couple there would still be that barrier between them and he couldn't *really* be there for her in the way she needed him to be.

Oh yes defnitely. He went to her then; oh I wish we could have seen that scene. As to whether he slipped in about Kerry at that point? Hmm, I don't know. I think it would have all been about Sam and her loss at this point. I don't think it was long after that though. Maybe later that day and maybe in a subtle way. Of course it's entirely possible that he'd told her earlier somehow. I can imagine her trying to apologise for turning up at his place and him turning that to his advantage and telling her then.

I also don't think, from the period when Jacob died until the scene in the control room with the gate, that those on Earth realized just how dire the situation was. *We* do because we saw the conversations between Anubis and Daniel and between the Jaffa, but for all they knew back on Earth IIRC, the Jaffa were attacking Anubis' main base and so I don't think it would have been that strange for Sam to have gone off base during that period. They didn't realize it was a ruse and what was really going on until Teal'c showed up at the SGC to tell them about it. This also supports the idea it all took place over a longer period than just a few hours (a day or days) as the Jaffa had to move their forces to Anubis base during that period.

That's true. From our perspective it may not have seemed that urgent without the knowledge of what was really happening. I am thinking days rather than weeks but at least a couple of days. The briefing room scene at the beginning is I assume, on the same day or next day that Sam end up at his place and my guess is Jacob's demise takes place over, at most, 48 hours. There would be a couple of days in between for the Jaffa to find out they've been set up, Sam to go dump Pete and then the crisis to become apparently very critical. I too get the feeling Sam came, more or less directly from that to the SGC and that the real understanding between them was reached some time after that before the final briefing room scene (because they are way too smug there, aren't they )

EDIT2: My thoughts are totally disjointed today (which I blame to summer school starting which means trying to get 3 different kids to 8 different places simultaneously). I do disagree with you slightly, Cags, in that I don't think Sam and Jack had significant time together until *after* the control room scene but *before* the conference room scene. I think they really had down time after Anubis weapon failed in which there was nothing really to do but wait for the Jaffa to report and wipe up what remained of his forces. I think in the control room scene there is actually a HUGE amount of tension remaining between Sam and Jack and I tend to think some of their looks at each other and, in fact, Sam's hesitation to use the self-destruct are because they have decided to move their relationship forward but haven't actually had a chance to do that yet (I think she may in fact have just rushed back from breaking up with Pete upon hearing Teal'c had come back to report) and so her reactions were fueled by that.

EDIT3: Just joking.

Actually you don't disagree with me because that's my own thoughts too; I'm just not brilliant at explaining things tonight (heavy weekend I am still recovering from) . Some brief moment of understanding where they make it absolutely clear they are a: single and b: going to work this out and then the actual talking and, er, doing stuff came after the whole crisis was over but before that last briefing room scene.
There would have been two things they needed to discuss; firstly the personal feelings they have (which, actually, I don;t think required much talking about because it's all about showing with Jack and Sam) and then the practical - how they proceed career wise, which would have required some thought and time and a few phonecalls at least to work out.

I think I am spending way too much time thinking about just one episode when I should be doing my shipper rewatch write up for an entirely other one.

[JenniferJF]

While I'm thinking about it, that scene where she does that, I just love the end of that; the way Jack looks up and sort of sighs, half in relief but also, I think there's a bit of trepidation there. While Kerry has removed one obstacle - and he may be thinking Sam is about to remove another - there's still a lot to be scared about in making a move and you can see the weight of that in his expression. Just beautifully acted.

Oh. Yeah. *happy sigh*

Oh yes defnitely. He went to her then; oh I wish we could have seen that scene. As to whether he slipped in about Kerry at that point? Hmm, I don't know. I think it would have all been about Sam and her loss at this point. I don't think it was long after that though. Maybe later that day and maybe in a subtle way.

I tend to think she would have asked. I think, with him coming to her and offering her comfort after Dad's death, after the 'Always' scene and in light of what she'd said on his deck, she would have asked about Kerry. Kind of as a sudden thought as his arms were around her: "Wait.. what about?" sort of thing. As for Pete, she'd already suggested Pete was wrong and not likely to stick around so I don't think either of them considered him to be much of an obstacle beyond the fact I do think they'd have both known she had to break off with him before they moved their relationship forward.

The briefing room scene at the beginning is I assume, on the same day or next day that Sam end up at his place and my guess is Jacob's demise takes place over, at most, 48 hours. There would be a couple of days in between for the Jaffa to find out they've been set up, Sam to go dump Pete and then the crisis to become apparently very critical. I too get the feeling Sam came, more or less directly from that to the SGC and that the real understanding between them was reached some time after that before the final briefing room scene (because they are way too smug there, aren't they )

I've always imagined the very beginning of the episode took place on a Friday (with Jacob originally planning on going to visit Mark and his grandkids on Saturday). Sat was supposed to be Sam's day off (and Jack's too, actually) but they got called in because of the situation. Sam left earlier to go with Pete and Jack left later to have lunch/dinner with Kerry on his deck. Sam shows up at Jack's late afternoon to find Kerry there, finds out Dad didn't go to San Diego but is sick in the infirmary, rushes back to the base. The next scene with Jack and Kerry is actually Monday morning, with Sam having stayed on base with her dad through Sunday, which is also the day Dad dies, and then she breaks up with Pete sometime Tuesday afternoon or Wed morning (because to put if off too long would have been increasing the sense of dishonest now that she had a sort of agreement/understanding thing with Jack), then goes back to the SGC for the control room scene, and then it's Thur night Sam and Jack find time together, and then the final scene takes place on Friday, thus putting the entire episode except the fishing trip over the course of a week.

Jacob's funeral, then, is actually not until the after the episode, which makes sense because I can't see them doing all the funeral arrangements and everything given the situation they found themselves in.

It's possible, btw, I've thought too much about this

Actually you don't disagree with me because that's my own thoughts too; I'm just not brilliant at explaining things tonight (heavy weekend I am still recovering from) . Some brief moment of understanding where they make it absolutely clear they are a: single and b: going to work this out and then the actual talking and, er, doing stuff came after the whole crisis was over but before that last briefing room scene.
There would have been two things they needed to discuss; firstly the personal feelings they have (which, actually, I don;t think required much talking about because it's all about showing with Jack and Sam) and then the practical - how they proceed career wise, which would have required some thought and time and a few phonecalls at least to work out.

Definitely, which is what APA's fic I recc'd earlier shows so brilliantly.

EDIT: And to clarify, I'm not saying absolutely this is the time line, I'm just saying this is the timeline in my universe.

[hlndncr]

Just got back from a weekend in NYC with my best friend.

So wondering, if Sam and Jack took a vacation in NYC where would they go? What would they do?

I have my ideas, but I'm curious to know what others think.

[JenniferJF]

Just got back from a weekend in NYC with my best friend.

So just wondering, if Sam and Jack took a vacation in NYC where would they go or what would they do?

I have my ideas, but I'm curious to know what others think.

They'd check into a 5-star hotel and have lots of plans and places to go but end up spending the entire weekend ordering room service, channel surfing, and, you know, any thing else that struck their fancy like

Spoiler:

Scrabble or Yahtzee

Spoiler:

which are hubs and my favorite games for a rainy day even though

Spoiler:

I always win

[Akamaimom]

Just got back from a weekend in NYC with my best friend.

So wondering, if Sam and Jack took a vacation in NYC where would they go? What would they do?

I have my ideas, but I'm curious to know what others think.

Room at the Plaza. And they would see--

drumroll please. . .

The inside of that room.

[Cagranosalis]

I've always imagined the very beginning of the episode took place on a Friday (with Jacob originally planning on going to visit Mark and his grandkids on Saturday). Sat was supposed to be Sam's day off (and Jack's too, actually) but they got called in because of the situation. Sam left earlier to go with Pete and Jack left later to have lunch/dinner with Kerry on his deck. Sam shows up at Jack's late afternoon to find Kerry there, finds out Dad didn't go to San Diego but is sick in the infirmary, rushes back to the base. The next scene with Jack and Kerry is actually Monday morning, with Sam having stayed on base with her dad through Sunday, which is also the day Dad dies, and then she breaks up with Pete sometime Tuesday afternoon or Wed morning (because to put if off too long would have been increasing the sense of dishonest now that she had a sort of agreement/understanding thing with Jack), then goes back to the SGC for the control room scene, and then it's Thur night Sam and Jack find time together, and then the final scene takes place on Friday, thus putting the entire episode except the fishing trip over the course of a week.

Jacob's funeral, then, is actually not until the after the episode, which makes sense because I can't see them doing all the funeral arrangements and everything given the situation they found themselves in.

It's possible, btw, I've thought too much about this
Definitely, which is what APA's fic I recc'd earlier shows so brilliantly.

EDIT: And to clarify, I'm not saying absolutely this is the time line, I'm just saying this is the timeline in my universe.

Well if you've over thought it, so have I. I've got more or less the same timeline. In my last post I nearly put that the scene on the deck was a Saturday until I realised that they never explicitly mention it's the weekend in the episode; all evidence seems to point to that though. The only thing to add to that timeline is that there's at least a week between the end of Reckoning and the start of this episode and, I would imagine (as you do) that Jacob's funeral happens some time after the last breifing room scene but possibly before the fishing trip. And, to me, the fishing trip is the last time they are together as a team before Sam and Jack go off to do their own things, no longer in each others chain of command.

Room at the Plaza. And they would see--

drumroll please. . .

The inside of that room.

I was going to say that.

Having never been to NYC, I haven't a scooby what there actually is to see there. Maybe they'd take in a broadway show. Would Jack like that? Would he sit still enough throughout one not to annoy Sam?

[JackandSamAddict]

Room at the Plaza. And they would see--

drumroll please. . .

The inside of that room.

I second this.

[JenniferJF]

:And, to me, the fishing trip is the last time they are together as a team before Sam and Jack go off to do their own things, no longer in each others chain of command.

In a way, I think the real significance of the fishing trip is this, not that it was the first time Sam and Jack. Well. 'Went fishing'. I think from a symbolic point-of-view the fact she was now able to go fishing with him indicated that she was now able to go 'fishing' with him, but I don't think under the circumstances non-fishing fishing was a primary part or reason for that trip as much as it was the last chance for 'the team' to get together and just hang out. Granted, even the placement of the four of them in the last scene (with Sam and Jack close together at the end of the pier and the other two separate but together on shore) indicates Sam and Jack have now formed a sub group apart from the rest of the team, which from a team perspective more than anything shows the end of an era and the beginning of things to come and is, thus, as bittersweet as it is shippy happy.

If that makes sense

[Nynaeve506]

Lots of great thoughts.

What's funny Jenn, talking about personal canon is that because I can see it happening so many different ways that my personal hardcore canon is as vague as: they got together by the time they went fishing LOL. I love reading fic about it and I envision it five different ways myself.

But I'm a dork

[hlndncr]

Having never been to NYC, I haven't a scooby what there actually is to see there. Maybe they'd take in a broadway show. Would Jack like that? Would he sit still enough throughout one not to annoy Sam?

Can't see Jack at a broadway show (although one of my favorite off broadway shows is "I Love You, Your Perfect, Now Change!" which I think Sam might enjoy).

I can see both at the Met for the opera. (Saw Turindot there a while back and just loved it. I'm sure Jack would too.)

I also think they might enjoy the Intrepid. And I can see them taking some time walking (hand in hand ) in Central Park.