Announcement

**Pol** · 19 May 2010, 03:04 PM

Originally posted by JenniferJF View Post

Well.. I sort of thought from what's already been said by both JM and BW it was pretty clear *something* was planned for #3, at least as far as JM knew. This latest comment just seems to confirm what's been said before - we know JM believes they're together, we know he wants to see that confirmed, and he's at least implied that's to be in the third movie.

First bolded bit: Yup.

Second bolded bit: Just a reminder, JM isn't an SG1 PTB anymore. That, to him, was a series that ended three years ago (a lifetime in television writing). Now, it can be argued that, A) he still works with Brad on SGU; and B) he's a PTB on a Stargate franchise show. But...that means...not a lot. His show is clearly different in tone, spirit, and content from SG-1 and the man also has other irons in the fire, work-wise.

So, when he says, "ideally..." I firmly believe that, in a world where he was in charge and all things being equal, his ideal is that Sam/Jack are confirmed publicly.

My single biggest item for belief in confirmation of Sam/Jack (publicly) is Trio. Brad and Rob wrote that episode. Yes, all the show's staffers (staff writers) had a pass on it, but the genesis came from Brad/Rob. The same Brad who has written our SG1-3 Rev(s)olution movie.

And, last item:

Huh. While confirming my airdates I Googled "Stargate SG1" and got to the regular Wiki page (as opposed to the Stargate Wiki) and found this:

No. of episodes 214 (List of episodes)
3 DVD films

Interesting.

Wildly OT:

Spoiler:

**Akamaimom** · 19 May 2010, 03:07 PM

Apropos of nothing current, I was just watching "Message in a Bottle" and it struck me that the ending of that mirrors the end of "New Order".

After they get the little blue things to go away, the team rushes to Jack at the 'Gate and she kneels down and puts her hand on his knee/thigh. And then, when Sam says, "I thought we lost you that time," he answers, "Wild horses, Captain." Even though Teal'c had told the joke initially, he responds only to her.

At the end of "New Order", when they find Sam, Jack places his hand on her knee/thigh, and her ENTIRE focus is on him. She only responds to him at that moment.

I know it's only Season 2, and therefore early in the attraction arc, but I just thought it was shout-out worthy. Interesting how even though Teal'c originated the Wild Horses line, Jack uses it to answer her.
Hmmm. Episode tag fan fic anyone?

**Nynaeve506** · 19 May 2010, 03:09 PM

I've never much understood being "anti" ship. I guess as I've "grown up" in my tv watching (since, hey, I'm a kid of the cable-satellite generation) I've become a person who tries to watch a show like one enjoys a novel or a piece of art. It is what it is, the writers are artists painting a picture. If I don't like the picture they're painting, then I might cock my head and say "Hm, I don't like it" and just move on with perhaps a few musings on what it was I didn't like and seek out that art that I enjoy, that speaks to me.

It's like my comment with House/Cuddy

Spoiler:

As a result, I'm willing to continue to watch the show because this isn't *my* story. This is *their* story that they've invited me to view.

The only problem with my opinion, however, is that writers of tv shows sometimes forget that. This is why I enjoy SGU even though it's vastly different from SG-1 or SGA - because I see them, BW, JM, etc as artists. I see them wanting to stretch themselves a little bit beyond what they've done before, experiment with some new colors. It's not going to be everyone's cup of tea and that's okay.

So all that to say, I enjoy S/J because it's part of the story. Because it's a piece of art that resonates with me. I write & read fanfic as a way to participate but it's never going to be *mine*.

I don't know if any of this makes sense. I'm just trying to explain why I'm generally not pro-ship or anti-ship... and why I ship S/J. LOL

**Akamaimom** · 19 May 2010, 03:17 PM

So all that to say, I enjoy S/J because it's part of the story. Because it's a piece of art that resonates with me. I write & read fanfic as a way to participate but it's never going to be *mine*.

I don't know if any of this makes sense. I'm just trying to explain why I'm generally not pro-ship or anti-ship... and why I ship S/J. LOL

I know exactly what you're talking about. I don't really promote ships on shows (although I find myself drawn to shows that have good ones. . .) but if it's there and obvious, I'm not going to deny it.

I think, however, that I can't watch soap operas for that reason. The ship is the arc, whereas the ship doesn't just fill out the arc. When it's dramatic for the sake of prolonging the plot, I can't watch ship. When it adds just a cool element to ongoing story lines, that's when ship really works for me.

I think I've called your "not making sense" and raised you a "rambling incoherently", Nynaeve!

**JenniferJF** · 19 May 2010, 03:21 PM

Originally posted by Pol View Post

So, when he says, "ideally..." I firmly believe that, in a world where he was in charge and all things being equal, his ideal is that Sam/Jack are confirmed publicly.

My single biggest item for belief in confirmation of Sam/Jack (publicly) is Trio. Brad and Rob wrote that episode. Yes, all the show's staffers (staff writers) had a pass on it, but the genesis came from Brad/Rob. The same Brad who has written our SG1-3 Rev(s)olution movie.
Really, just flip the damned thing over and look! No mussel's!

Yes, but Brad has stated there's to be a 'romantic' scene and IIRC JM made a comment about that as well. That said, I do tend to agree with you in spirit that the *reason* JM said 'ideally' wasn't about whether there is a movie or not but simply about the fact that, as far as he knows, that was the general intention and he still believes it should be but that, there being a multitude of factors in play (and not simply artistic ones), he can't (though he wouldn't even if he knew absolutely 100% that there would be) absolutely say it will be if there is a third movie.

**majorsal** · 19 May 2010, 03:25 PM

Originally posted by Pol View Post

So, when he says, "ideally..." I firmly believe that, in a world where he was in charge and all things being equal, his ideal is that Sam/Jack are confirmed publicly.

wow, that's as much confirmation as joe's answer!

My single biggest item for belief in confirmation of Sam/Jack (publicly) is Trio. Brad and Rob wrote that episode. Yes, all the show's staffers (staff writers) had a pass on it, but the genesis came from Brad/Rob. The same Brad who has written our SG1-3 Rev(s)olution movie.

i'm just as afraid of the confirmation being watered down and dull, as i am there being none to begin with. watching the season finale of 'house' really, REALLY hit home what i want with sam/jack!!

it's really not much to ask for, seeing as all these other shows are showing real confirmation (non ambiguous and/or watered down), and even ships that came after s/j by our own stargate writers have been obvious and crystal clear.

that's what i want. that's what i want!!

so it's a waiting game... a 13 year waiting game...

.... either i'm a total sucker for punishment, or i have no life.

**yessika** · 19 May 2010, 03:32 PM

Originally posted by majorsal View Post

wow, that's as much confirmation as joe's answer!

i'm just as afraid of the confirmation being watered down and dull, as i am there being none to begin with. watching the season finale of 'house' really, REALLY hit home what i want with sam/jack!!

it's really not much to ask for, seeing as all these other shows are showing real confirmation (non ambiguous and/or watered down), and even ships that came after s/j by our own stargate writers have been obvious and crystal clear.

that's what i want. that's what i want!!

so it's a waiting game... a 13 year waiting game...

.... either i'm a total sucker for punishment, or i have no life.

I think of all my ships, about half have gotten confirmation, the rest range from maybe got together to they did not get together *sigh*

I have come to the realization that as a shipper of many ships, I must like pain and torture

**JenniferJF** · 19 May 2010, 03:35 PM

Originally posted by Nynaeve506 View Post

I've never much understood being "anti" ship. I guess as I've "grown up" in my tv watching (since, hey, I'm a kid of the cable-satellite generation) I've become a person who tries to watch a show like one enjoys a novel or a piece of art. It is what it is, the writers are artists painting a picture. If I don't like the picture they're painting, then I might cock my head and say "Hm, I don't like it" and just move on with perhaps a few musings on what it was I didn't like and seek out that art that I enjoy, that speaks to me.

That's exactly how I feel, too. I suspect there are quite a lot of us here on S/J who feel the same way and are actually here by default as it's the only place we can discuss THE SHOW without our basic interpretation of what we've seen - that Sam/Jack is canon and was meant to be - being constantly questioned.

Or, in other words, I simply can't discuss Sam The Character if I can't include as a basic premise that she is attracted to, and then in love with, and then etc... Jack O'Neill. I see it as a part of who she is and thus essential to understanding the totality of her character. It's not, to be clear, the entirety of who she is by any means, either, but simply a part of the whole which, being ignored, must result in an incomplete and thus unsatisfying discussion. Yet at the same time, if others wish to ignore that and discuss Sam as though the ship didn't exist, or as though another does, that's their interpretation and I appreciate the fact there are multiple boards here for people to discuss whatever interpretation of the show they chose to embrace.

At the same time, I can also completely respect the view point of fans who dislike the ship and don't want to see it and would have preferred for it not to have existed because, quite frankly, on almost every other TV show I watch, I generally feel the same way. Historically - and this is totally IMHO - Television ships are handled so poorly (as Resolution has been a bit of a dirty word in TV-land since Rhoda or possibly even before then) that they really do tend to weaken the overall show and characters when introduced or dwelled on as the reasons given for protracting the UST are generally so thin as to be laughable. Yet at the same time, on most shows I watch which do have ships, I just sort of sigh and distract myself with the nearest bright and shiny object until the yucky kissy part is over (or tighten the seatbelt and wait for the inevitable NASCAR-style crashup at the end.)

Though it's possible this is only the Vicodin or the pain talking, as I just had a molar extracted

EDIT: And Sally, just remember, having two characters declare their love isn't - IMHO - 'resolution'. On TV land, in my experience, it's usually the bit right before the next storm.

**majorsal** · 19 May 2010, 03:38 PM

Originally posted by JenniferJF View Post

Yes, but Brad has stated there's to be a 'romantic' scene and IIRC JM made a comment about that as well. That said, I do tend to agree with you in spirit that the *reason* JM said 'ideally' wasn't about whether there is a movie or not but simply about the fact that, as far as he knows, that was the general intention and he still believes it should be but that, there being a multitude of factors in play (and not simply artistic ones), he can't (though he wouldn't even if he knew absolutely 100% that there would be) absolutely say it will be if there is a third movie.

there! that's the impression i got from his answer!

**majorsal** · 19 May 2010, 03:43 PM

Originally posted by yessika View Post

I think of all my ships, about half have gotten confirmation, the rest range from maybe got together to they did not get together *sigh*

I have come to the realization that as a shipper of many ships, I must like pain and torture

harm/mac, scully/mulder, and troi/riker's confirmations all left me meh... though s/m and t/r got good confirmations in the later years in movies, but by then, i'd lost *so* much interest, that it didn't really matter anymore.

there's some that squeed me well

, but i'm just focusing on the meh ones right now. i don't want s/j to be put into that group, and as of right now, without the 3rd movie... they are. that's why i haven't watched 'threads' or 'moebius' in years.

so i'm still hoping for good and juicy confirmation in the 3rd movie!!

**majorsal** · 19 May 2010, 03:53 PM

Originally posted by JenniferJF View Post

EDIT: And Sally, just remember, having two characters declare their love isn't - IMHO - 'resolution'. On TV land, in my experience, it's usually the bit right before the next storm.

omg, in tv land, it's open season on torturing the lovers as much as humanly possible, before they (hopefully) get their happily ever after!

to me, s/j resolution came with 'threads', b/c both finally accepted that they couldn't be happy without each other and didn't want to pretend otherwise anymore.

but, for me, the confirmation that they, indeed, got together, hasn't come yet.

i'm one of those ppl that needs the proof, not just wants it. then i can squee happy ever after.

**Akamaimom** · 19 May 2010, 03:59 PM

omg, in tv land, it's open season on torturing the lovers as much as humanly possible, before they (hopefully) get their happily ever after!

to me, s/j resolution came with 'threads', b/c both finally accepted that they couldn't be happy without each other and didn't want to pretend otherwise anymore.

but, for me, the confirmation that they, indeed, got together, hasn't come yet.

i'm one of those ppl that needs the proof, not just wants it. then i can squee happy ever after.

that's the sad thing though--unless it goes on for ever and ever and ever and ever like the Waltons, you aren't going to see Happily Ever After. All you are going to see is a scene that infers that they are--FOR THAT BRIEF MOMENT IN TIME--happy together. In today's society when sex is cheap and love fleeting, we would have to see constant scenes of Sam/Jack glee in order to ever say it's completely confirmed. Ship naysayers will rebut whatever BHK or love scene that's shown and say that they were having a one night stand or that they are just friends with benefits or something. You have to settle it in your mind that they are together, and then whatever bones the producers throw at us are just icing on that cake--er--bone.

**majorsal** · 19 May 2010, 04:17 PM

Originally posted by Akamaimom View Post

that's the sad thing though--unless it goes on for ever and ever and ever and ever like the Waltons, you aren't going to see Happily Ever After. All you are going to see is a scene that infers that they are--FOR THAT BRIEF MOMENT IN TIME--happy together. In today's society when sex is cheap and love fleeting, we would have to see constant scenes of Sam/Jack glee in order to ever say it's completely confirmed. Ship naysayers will rebut whatever BHK or love scene that's shown and say that they were having a one night stand or that they are just friends with benefits or something. You have to settle it in your mind that they are together, and then whatever bones the producers throw at us are just icing on that cake--er--bone.

if they showed, in the 3rd movie, sam and jack kissing, that would be all it would take to prove to me that they're together. i don't care how antis would mold it into another shape, b/c there's no other way to interpret it than other that they're together.

it's really very simple.

ps- the kiss would have to be without influences (drugs, aliens, viruses, alternate timelines) for it to be 'they're together!'

**Nynaeve506** · 19 May 2010, 04:29 PM

Originally posted by JenniferJF View Post

That's exactly how I feel, too. I suspect there are quite a lot of us here on S/J who feel the same way and are actually here by default as it's the only place we can discuss THE SHOW without our basic interpretation of what we've seen - that Sam/Jack is canon and was meant to be - being constantly questioned.

Or, in other words, I simply can't discuss Sam The Character if I can't include as a basic premise that she is attracted to, and then in love with, and then etc... Jack O'Neill. I see it as a part of who she is and thus essential to understanding the totality of her character. It's not, to be clear, the entirety of who she is by any means, either, but simply a part of the whole which, being ignored, must result in an incomplete and thus unsatisfying discussion. Yet at the same time, if others wish to ignore that and discuss Sam as though the ship didn't exist, or as though another does, that's their interpretation and I appreciate the fact there are multiple boards here for people to discuss whatever interpretation of the show they chose to embrace.

At the same time, I can also completely respect the view point of fans who dislike the ship and don't want to see it and would have preferred for it not to have existed because, quite frankly, on almost every other TV show I watch, I generally feel the same way. Historically - and this is totally IMHO - Television ships are handled so poorly (as Resolution has been a bit of a dirty word in TV-land since Rhoda or possibly even before then) that they really do tend to weaken the overall show and characters when introduced or dwelled on as the reasons given for protracting the UST are generally so thin as to be laughable. Yet at the same time, on most shows I watch which do have ships, I just sort of sigh and distract myself with the nearest bright and shiny object until the yucky kissy part is over (or tighten the seatbelt and wait for the inevitable NASCAR-style crashup at the end.)

Though it's possible this is only the Vicodin or the pain talking, as I just had a molar extracted

EDIT: And Sally, just remember, having two characters declare their love isn't - IMHO - 'resolution'. On TV land, in my experience, it's usually the bit right before the next storm.

I agree with the bolded parts and I think that's kind of what I was also trying to get at before.

Originally posted by Akamaimom View Post

I know exactly what you're talking about. I don't really promote ships on shows (although I find myself drawn to shows that have good ones. . .) but if it's there and obvious, I'm not going to deny it.

I think, however, that I can't watch soap operas for that reason. The ship is the arc, whereas the ship doesn't just fill out the arc. When it's dramatic for the sake of prolonging the plot, I can't watch ship. When it adds just a cool element to ongoing story lines, that's when ship really works for me.

I think I've called your "not making sense" and raised you a "rambling incoherently", Nynaeve!

I can't handle soaps either LOL. I like my ships to be in the background - part of the story (can I plug ABC's Castle here? So far, two seasons in, it has to be one of the best paced, well handled ships I have seen in a long time. I don't ship the main characters in so far as I'm rooting for them to get together or I even want to write/read fanfic on it, but I accept the attraction as part of the dynamic and am just absolutely blown away by how well the writers have managed to balance it against the plot).

Originally posted by Akamaimom View Post

that's the sad thing though--unless it goes on for ever and ever and ever and ever like the Waltons, you aren't going to see Happily Ever After. All you are going to see is a scene that infers that they are--FOR THAT BRIEF MOMENT IN TIME--happy together. In today's society when sex is cheap and love fleeting, we would have to see constant scenes of Sam/Jack glee in order to ever say it's completely confirmed. Ship naysayers will rebut whatever BHK or love scene that's shown and say that they were having a one night stand or that they are just friends with benefits or something. You have to settle it in your mind that they are together, and then whatever bones the producers throw at us are just icing on that cake--er--bone.

I'll agree with this too. Some people want to live in denial to the point of insanity. It's one thing to dislike it, it's even another to get together and hem and haw about it, it's another to just go to the point of trying to rationalize it away LOL. But, hey, I'm okay with free speech, just so long as they don't come screaming in on my parade (and I'll let them be in their own little world).

**mad_gater** · 19 May 2010, 05:44 PM

Originally posted by Pol View Post

First bolded bit: Yup.

Second bolded bit: Just a reminder, JM isn't an SG1 PTB anymore. That, to him, was a series that ended three years ago (a lifetime in television writing). Now, it can be argued that, A) he still works with Brad on SGU; and B) he's a PTB on a Stargate franchise show. But...that means...not a lot. His show is clearly different in tone, spirit, and content from SG-1 and the man also has other irons in the fire, work-wise.

So, when he says, "ideally..." I firmly believe that, in a world where he was in charge and all things being equal, his ideal is that Sam/Jack are confirmed publicly.

My single biggest item for belief in confirmation of Sam/Jack (publicly) is Trio. Brad and Rob wrote that episode. Yes, all the show's staffers (staff writers) had a pass on it, but the genesis came from Brad/Rob. The same Brad who has written our SG1-3 Rev(s)olution movie.

And, last item:

Huh. While confirming my airdates I Googled "Stargate SG1" and got to the regular Wiki page (as opposed to the Stargate Wiki) and found this:

No. of episodes 214 (List of episodes)
3 DVD films

Interesting.

Wildly OT:

Spoiler:

re: OT

Spoiler:

Announcement

Sam Carter /Jack O'Neill Ship Appreciation Thread 2.0

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