Sam Carter /Jack O'Neill Ship Appreciation Thread 2.0

[Treknik]

And that's why I think that Jack knew about it. They considered her to be compromised--and she was being glowy thingied by Orlin--he could "read" her thoughts/knowledge. No matter how much he wouldn't have intended to.

And Sam, being an officer and intelligent, eventually would have understood that. Although I think she was upset about it principally.

HOWEVER--there's an illusion in (Beachhead?????) that indicates that Sam and Orlin were physically intimate, and I don't believe that. At all. Ick. Even though Orlin's pretty cute.

The episode was The Fourth Horseman (Part One) and they said "intimate relationship" between Sam and Orlin. I have never thought a physical one (that's not what intimate means), just a very close and private relationship.

[Akamaimom]

The episode was The Fourth Horseman (Part One) and they said "intimate relationship" between Sam and Orlin. I have never thought a physical one (that's not what intimate means), just a very close and private relationship.

Of course--that's the one. I didn't feel like looking it up.

For many people, intimate relationship does mean physical. I think that she and Orlin shared a personal connection with him--having "glowed" together--and she was flattered by his fascination with her, but I think that his refusal to "come out" (so to speak) and demonstrate to other people that she wasn't nuts made her unable to feel more deeply for him.

[Nynaeve506]

Of course--that's the one. I didn't feel like looking it up.

For many people, intimate relationship does mean physical. I think that she and Orlin shared a personal connection with him--having "glowed" together--and she was flattered by his fascination with her, but I think that his refusal to "come out" (so to speak) and demonstrate to other people that she wasn't nuts made her unable to feel more deeply for him.

Well, I mean glowy could be the ascended version of "fishing" - and she did seem to rather enjoy herself :: cough cough :: Egads that makes Simmons sound sick with his surveillance devices >.<

So glad her and Jack went fishing. I'm sure it was much more satisfying.

[Treknik]

Of course--that's the one. I didn't feel like looking it up.

For many people, intimate relationship does mean physical. I think that she and Orlin shared a personal connection with him--having "glowed" together--and she was flattered by his fascination with her, but I think that his refusal to "come out" (so to speak) and demonstrate to other people that she wasn't nuts made her unable to feel more deeply for him.

So when two people have an intimate dinner, there was some physical action going on? No, it was just a private dinner between two people. Sam had a private relationship with Orlin.

Well, I mean glowy could be the ascended version of "fishing" - and she did seem to rather enjoy herself :: cough cough :: Egads that makes Simmons sound sick with his surveillance devices >.<

So glad her and Jack went fishing. I'm sure it was much more satisfying.

Ew! Glow fishing?! She never even touched the man. And yes, with Jack it would have been more satisfying.

[Gatetrixer]

By the time Kerry came along, Jack was a general, and unlikely to socialize much (if at all) with his former teammates, and I think a distance of sorts developed between them all so that it was no surprise that nobody knew about Kerry. She did, after all, say that Jack didn't want anybody at the SGC to know about them, so I don't think he told Daniel or Teal'c either. If the team had been socializing all along, Pete would likely have been included in a few get-togethers (IMO), and at some point during the brief time Jack and Kerry were together, I'm thinking it would have gotten out somehow and Sam wouldn't have been so blindsided by Kerry being at Jack's house when Sam went to talk to him. Sam didn't, after all, know who Kerry was when she almost interrupted Jack and Kerry in Jack's office. Which in my opinion is a bit surprising, since if Kerry had been around the base during her investigation, it seems like the two women would have met at some point

And I'm still not entirely sure Jack knew about the Orlin surveillance. If he did, I really think Sam would have found it hard to forgive after everyone doubting her so severely throughout the episode. I think she would have felt betrayed by everybody (at least for awhile, no matter how forgiving she is). She tried to report it, nobody believed her. Janet didn't believe her. Jack didn't believe her. Hammond didn't believe her. They really all thought she was nuts or having a breakdown. And I'm betting nobody apologized to her after she was proved right (even if she did break a couple of rules by not turning Orlin in the minute he became human, and then when she followed him to the other planet).

(*sorry about the babbling - that episodes irks me severely sometimes.*)

I'm not so sure Jack wanted anybody at all to know about his dating Kerry. After all he was the commander of the base and if she was around there doing whatever she did, it would be rather awkward, especially in Jack's way of thinking. In some ways it makes me think that he was rather desperate to move on but yet still secretly (Jack desperate?) that he would take up with Kerry instead of having his poker buddies ( or their wives or girl friends )fix him up with someone. He probably wanted someone who wasn't known in town and would, by dint of her profession, be able to keep a secret. Until he was comfortable enough to really, really move on. Maybe never. Maybe they spent all of their however many dates not going to any public place. Just a thought or two.

[majorsal]

i still wish this 'getting a life' storyline would have happened with jack moving on, instead of sam. it would be have easier for *me* to take.

[Keaira Taegan]

i still wish this 'getting a life' storyline would have happened with jack moving on, instead of sam. it would be have easier for *me* to take.

i agree!! which is odd becuase i usually relate more readily to male characters since they have the whole *its unmanly to be emotionally open*thing and im not emotionally open lol but with sam and jack its so hard for me to watch sam "moving on" rather than jack.....

[SamJackShipper93]

Happy Birthday, Sally!

(And long time, no see, Amanda! )

[Akamaimom]

So when two people have an intimate dinner, there was some physical action going on? No, it was just a private dinner between two people. Sam had a private relationship with Orlin.

All I'm saying is that I know some people think in the alternate sense. These days, where everything is hyper-sensualized, the word "intimacy" is used as a euphemism for sex. I was only saying that in that scene with Landry, the implication that he gives in asking the question about Sam's relationship with Orlin felt to me like he thought that they had done more than have dinner.

I understand that there are different forms of intimacy. Different levels--I was merely trying to put forth the idea that Orlin did use her, and she was compromised, and therefore even if Hammond and Jack had known about the surveillance, they were justified in not telling her.

I think I'm being a little misunderstood. . .that's what you get for opining while trying to help one's daughter complete a 2nd grade project on service dogs.

[Nynaeve506]

All I'm saying is that I know some people think in the alternate sense. These days, where everything is hyper-sensualized, the word "intimacy" is used as a euphemism for sex. I was only saying that in that scene with Landry, the implication that he gives in asking the question about Sam's relationship with Orlin felt to me like he thought that they had done more than have dinner.

I understand that there are different forms of intimacy. Different levels--I was merely trying to put forth the idea that Orlin did use her, and she was compromised, and therefore even if Hammond and Jack had known about the surveillance, they were justified in not telling her.

I think I'm being a little misunderstood. . .that's what you get for opining while trying to help one's daughter complete a 2nd grade project on service dogs.

This happens to me all the time. Not the glowy sex thing. Or the 2nd grade project, but more of the I have a toddler or I have to get to work, or Lost or something shiny distracts me from what I'm doing.

I too seemed to think that Landry was implying "intimacy" as "fishing" except with flashlights and glow sticks as opposed to the traditional sense. Especially when she comments that he was older.

[Akamaimom]

I too seemed to think that Landry was implying "intimacy" as "fishing" except with flashlights and glow sticks as opposed to the traditional sense. Especially when she comments that he was older.

EEEEw. Fishing with glow sticks and flashlights? I'll have to remember that.

[Nynaeve506]

EEEEw. Fishing with glow sticks and flashlights? I'll have to remember that.

I was wondering if anyone was going to comment on that. I blame it on the fact that my Ambien is kicking in. I think this means I need to go lie down and stop talking before I become completely incoherent.

[hlndncr]

OKay--Jack not being completely honest with Sam:
Tollan device
Orlin surveillance
Leaving Fifth in the time dilation device

Tollan Device--Yes, but completely understandable as he was on a mission, under orders, and one of his motivations for doing what he did was to protect her (IMO).

Orlin Surveillance--No Way. Jack could not have known. That would mean he was in league with Simmons (and going behind Hammond's back). That's so completely out of character that it is patently unbelievable.

Leaving 5th--Huh? In what way did Jack deceive or withhold information from Sam? He deceived 5th, but Sam was aware of what he was doing the whole time. She didn't like it, but she had her orders and she did it. The fact that Sam offerred to take 5th is irrelevant because she did that without Jack's permission; she had no authority to make that decision. No dishonesty, just chain of command.

What Joe did was inexcusable IMO. This wasn't in the line of duty, this was trading the human race for shiny toys and longer lives. ... he is perhaps the *worst* possible choice she could have ended up with IMO.

It was certainly within his duty to negotiate with the Aschen, that was his function, and keeping information about those negotions secret may have also been required of him. But I think when it was revealed to him that he was supposed to allow for the forced sterilization of any amount of the population, it was his duty as a human being (and "one of the good guys") to raise the alarm and fight against it in some way. It was his tacit approval that I find inexcusable.

That being said, I'm still not sure he is the worst possible choice. First, I don't think Joe ever believed he was essentially wiping out the world; he had obviously convinced himself that he was saving the world. It was poor judgment, self-delusion, and perhaps even a certain amount of naivete with regard to the Aschen, but certainly not sinister (which to me suggests a level of malice or threat). I find Pete's actions and also Orlin's much more sinister and I certainly consider Sam's relationships with them much poorer choices, in which she exhibited far worse judgment.

Perhaps that's why it's so satisfying when she cuts the rope in 2001.

It *is* rather satisfying isn't it? I suppose if I hadn't known what a cad he had been I might have been sympathetic. As it was I sort of thought it fitting that he was stuck with his Aschen partners in crime... even though he technically hadn't done anything yet...

I must disagree. Joe in 2001 is not the Joe of 2010. First, I can't condemn a man for something another version of himself might have done in a future that didn't happen. In fact the person that we are presented with in 2001 acted correctly and noblely. Essentially he did what the 2010 Joe should have done. When presented with evidence of the Aschen's true malevolonce (and in this case far stronger evidence--the actual destruction of an advanced civilization by covert sterilization--rather than the less obvious, but still inappropriate, demand to sterilize a portion of the population for economic, ecological, and scociological reasons) he acted swiftly and selflessly to protect earth from falling into their grasp.

[hedwig]

I always thought that Landry's comment about Sam being "intimate" with Orlin was uncalled for and out of line for him to even bring it up. Plus, I always felt that she never had sex with Orlin and that the energy sharing thing was an extremely intimate thing to do given that he could then understand/know her deepest, most intimate thoughts, and the same in reverse with her about Orlin. (It's pretty much the same thing that happened with Shephard Chaya (the ancient who shared energy with him) on SGA. I'm thinking that Sam must have put some kind of wording in her report of the whole incident that could have been interpreted by some people to mean she had sex with Orlin, when that wasn't what she meant at all.

And Aka, I know what you mean about being misunderstood at times.

[hlndncr]

i still wish this 'getting a life' storyline would have happened with jack moving on, instead of sam. it would be have easier for *me* to take.

Not me. Just the thought of Kerry makes me queasy. But Sam's "getting a life" would have been less nausiating if Pete's character weren't so horribly written and dreadfully miscast.

And I don't think anyone on base knew about Kerry. Jack not telling Sam (or anyone else) was neither deceptive nor dishonest toward anyone but himself.