Sam Carter /Jack O'Neill Ship Appreciation Thread 2.0

[kusanagi]

Pol, thank you for the ficlet, I love it!!
And majorsal, all the best moments, I could watch them over and over again!!

Welcome Kate!!

[Cagranosalis]

it IS important to me that it be proved, b/c, for me, it's not 100 percent sure that they 'are' together. if me, a dyed in the wool shipper isn't totally sure, what does an average fan think? i think the average isn't sure, b/c i've read many posts from general fans (non shippers and such) that have said they're sorry they didn't get together, so on...

it's not clear, it's not *for sure*.

for me, for the fans, for the storyline, make it *clear*.

X 100!

But then I think those who haven't seen it yet just never will - well unless there's full on tonsil hockey going on of course. And actually, I'm just so tired of arguing the point to those who don't or won't that I'm at the point where all I feel like saying to them is, "Yeah, whatever!"

I've read/heard a lot of posts/comments from general and casual fans that has suggested they do (or those that are open to it) see them as together because they see what we see in Threads i.e. they get the fiishing analogy. It's subtle but it's not that subtle. I even had an anti friend (really, really anti, but then she was a J/D slasher) who emailed me a huge rant after watching Threads precisely becuase she knew what it meant and was upset that it destroyed her slasher dreams.
I would be confident that, if you took a poll among SG-1 regular viewers (banning both antis and shippers from participating), a significant portion of fandom and of causal viewers would see them as together post season 8.

As I say, I think I'm just at the point where I don't need to justify my thoughts on that as much as I once did and I also feel like I don't need TPTB to justify it either. Having said that, they've had a much more pro-ship attitude of late, which makes me confident that - subtle or not - it is their intention to give us at least onec scene that removes a good deal of the ambiguity in movie #3.

And I'll add to the add. . .

Jack cares for her enough to allow her to find happiness if this path is the one that she wants to traverse. I'm weird enough to think that's kind of sweet--that he doesn't try to force her decision. Maybe it's because he doesn't think he's good enough for her in the first place (this is kind of what it feels to me, in which case I *sigh* because I think that's romantic), or he believes that she believes that she's going to be happy with Pete and wants to give her the opportunity to go for what she wants.

Well, not sure sweet is quite the word I'd describe. Idiotic, stupid, obtuse, dumb maybe but sweet? Nah!
Essentially that ring scene in Affinity, Jack gives Sam up because he thinks she'll be happier with Pete. I think he knows it hurts her for him to give that ambigious non-answer because he'd have to be a complete dunce not to realise she was asking him to tell her not to marry Pete. But I think he does it because he sees it as a something that may hurt her a little but will ultimately benefit her.
I tend to think he does that not because he doesn't think he would be good enough for her, so much because of fear. i.e. Having a romantic relationship with her would mean sacrificing their friendship - especially if things didn't work out (because it's fairly rare for people to be able to go from close friendship to romantic relationship and then back again without it adversely affecting said friendship). And then there's also the professional reasons - that it would destroy their working relationship too - which would be worth it if things worked out long term but if it turned out to be a mistake then that would become complicated.
The irony of that is, that their friendship and working relationship was, by this point, already suffering because they were denying their true feelings. No matter what happened with regards to their relationship post season 8, I think their working relationship was effectively over. Jack, at least, could not have continued to be her CO any longer and I think he knew that. I think their friendship was suffering too so, when it came to it, the only decision they had was to either be together romantically or to cease to be even just friends and colleagues.

OT: Speaking of Jack did any one catch monday's episode of 24? man what a shocker at the end.

Nope, don't watch 24. Never have. Never interested me. *shrugs* There's a lot of discussion about it in the shipper lounge though and I wouldn't mind betting there's a 24 thread somewhere on GW; I am sure they would love to hear your views there.


Fab ficlet Pol. Damn, no green for you but next time, I will.

XFChemist, great video. I love Acachan's work and will pop over to YT to "green" her properly later.

By the way (becuase I can't remember who quoted me, sorry and appeared to have lost that MQ) On the subject of SGU ship, what I actually meant was, I don't really care for Sam/Jack ship on SGU because SGU isn't really about Sam/Jack. I won't complain if they do throw us a bone on there, of course, but I'm not expecting nor desiring it. I'm more than happy to explore ship among the characters onboard the Destiny and, yeah, whomever you were, what you said. (and now I'm going to have to go back, find that and green it ).

[JenniferJF]

I'm a bit late to the party, but I am a newbie to GW (previously a lurker - why did I take so long to sign up?!) Anyhoo, my fave ship moments? Apart from the big ones that others have mentioned - kiss in WOO, Grace etc, some of my fave bits are the small subtle ones. Like in Small Victories (or there abouts) when Jack peers up through Sam's magnifying glass and she laughs and shakes her head. Part of me wonders if that was scripted or if RDA was just messing around and AT went with it.

Also the WOO scene in the commisary - "so, don't you know what I'm going to say..." - Sam has this cute little smile thing going on and Jack just gazes at her in that way... you know like he's thinking something else...

So, your presents for delurking (you get two cause you mentioned two scenes I happened to have :

[JenniferJF]

I've read/heard a lot of posts/comments from general and casual fans that has suggested they do (or those that are open to it) see them as together because they see what we see in Threads i.e. they get the fiishing analogy. It's subtle but it's not that subtle. I even had an anti friend (really, really anti, but then she was a J/D slasher) who emailed me a huge rant after watching Threads precisely becuase she knew what it meant and was upset that it destroyed her slasher dreams.
I would be confident that, if you took a poll among SG-1 regular viewers (banning both antis and shippers from participating), a significant portion of fandom and of causal viewers would see them as together post season 8.

I agree with this completely. And, frankly, Stargate isn't (IMHO) like most TV that feels a need to puree everything and feed it to the audience on a spoon. You're meant to have to think and interpret (at least the characters) from being *shown* rather than the cruder *telling* that goes on on most TV shows most of the time. It may leave things open to that interpretation, but IMHO it makes for better storytelling.

Just. Of course. IMHO. But then again, as I've said, I don't really care if everyone isn't forced to acknowledge Sam/Jack. For me, it's enough that I see it absolutely crystal clear.

I tend to think he does that not because he doesn't think he would be good enough for her, so much because of fear. i.e. Having a romantic relationship with her would mean sacrificing their friendship - especially if things didn't work out (because it's fairly rare for people to be able to go from close friendship to romantic relationship and then back again without it adversely affecting said friendship). And then there's also the professional reasons - that it would destroy their working relationship too - which would be worth it if things worked out long term but if it turned out to be a mistake then that would become complicated.
The irony of that is, that their friendship and working relationship was, by this point, already suffering because they were denying their true feelings. No matter what happened with regards to their relationship post season 8, I think their working relationship was effectively over. Jack, at least, could not have continued to be her CO any longer and I think he knew that. I think their friendship was suffering too so, when it came to it, the only decision they had was to either be together romantically or to cease to be even just friends and colleagues.

I agree with this, too. The only thing I'd add is that I believe Jack was not only afraid of losing Sam's friendship and their working relationship but that he was, after the loss of Charlie and like Sam herself, afraid of letting himself love completely because he doesn't believe he can go through the loss of love again. He actually said that in WoO, that he couldn't go through that again, and I don't think he was talking simply of losing Charlie but the pain and grief of loss itself. That's the real reason I think he had a look of such horror after one of realization at the forcefield in Upgrades/D&C. Not because he realized he loved her and they were going to die, but that he loved her so much he would *literally* rather die than go through the pain of losing her again. "I'd rather die myself than lose Carter" wasn't simply a statement of love but a fact based on his experiences with Charlie.

That fear is also why I think he drew back from her after almost losing her - after almost killing her - in Entity. He also, I think, justified his own fear with the idea that it was for her own good because his preference put her into danger in Entity and also that he didn't want to lose what they had, both their friendship and working relationship. Both of which, btw, I think were also true and parts of his reason for letting her go. Or attempting to.

But as you say, I think in Threads he realized not only was he already losing her friendship and wasn't working with her anymore, but he was also going through the pain of losing her anyway. So, realizing she was hurting just as much as him, he made a move.

All of which is pretty much the point of my Being There story, and especially the Entity tag. (self-pimpage, but it really is my opinion on this lol)

[Nynaeve506]

I echo Cags and Jenn - I've found the most general viewers accept that they're together. I don't need to prove it to anyone else I wish I had more time to post but my life has been on the go >.< So thanks to those I can just "echo"

[JackandSamAddict]

OT: Speaking of Jack did any one catch monday's episode of 24? man what a shocker at the end.

Don't get me started. Not too surprising, considering they do it everytime. I just thought this time would be different.

Anywho...back on topic. Jack and Sam are so married. And I love them to pieces! They are perfect together. *shippy sigh*

[JackandSamAddict]

Jennifer, I totally agree with you on the crystal clearness of our ship. I see what I see and that is enough for me to know that they are totally together now.

[Jacquelyn]

omg, hours without a post!


top defining moments:

1- their first meeting.

2- being stuck together in 'solitudes'. i think this is where the attraction reasserted itself.

3- jack seeing an alternate reality sam, and seeing what could be with him and sam. 'pov'

4- jack being stuck on edora, and sam being jealous. '100 days'

5- sam and jack, stuck behind the force field, with jack not leaving her (see 6)

6- sam and jack being forced to admit their feelings. 'upgrades' and 'divide and conquer'

7- sam comes to some realizations. 'grace'

8- sam gets a boyfriend that's not jack. (feels too gaggy to name ep )

9- sam gets engaged. 'affinity'

10- sam and jack, no matter how hard they tried, could not move on from each other. 'threads'


k, shippers, did i miss anything, leave anything out?

do tell!

Hmm, what about... "In the Line of Duty", "Beneath the Surface", and "Metamorphosis"??? There is some great shippy moments in those episodes.

[Artie]

I echo Cags and Jenn - I've found the most general viewers accept that they're together. I don't need to prove it to anyone else I wish I had more time to post but my life has been on the go >.< So thanks to those I can just "echo"

I'm with you! Most people I've watched it with just sort of take it as a given, especially in Continuum. I think it's completely clear there, especially with Cam's reaction to Sam completely freezing after they've gone through the gate into the freighter. She's never frozen like that in her entire career, and I could hug Cam for being kind.

[Akamaimom]

She's never frozen like that in her entire career, and I could hug Cam for being kind.

Like there's a reason to hug Cam? I'd do it for no reason at all.

But yes--that's true about Continuum. I think that TPTB have confirmed it in whatever way they feel is necessary--it's just not going to be enough for 1) the naysayers, and 2) those of us who want (WANT!!!) a Big Honking Kiss. (Actually, I don't really want the kiss to honk--and I really don't like that suction sound effect that they always seem to use with on screen kisses. . .but I'd like to see them lock lips with suitable music in the background, at the very least.)

[hedwig]

Fic rec:

Busted

It's amusing and I kinda like it. Can't decide if the punishment is justified or a bit over the top.

[Fluffy17]

Ficlet to go with, um the piclet:

Jack groaned and fumbled for the phone, trying unsuccessfully to not jostle his sleeping wife. "'Lo?" He rubbed his eyes as his sleep-fogged brain tried to process what it was the caller was saying. He closed his eyes and slowly the phone dropped away from his ear. A gentle snore filled the room once more.

The early morning light was just slipping under the shades when another phone rang, this time causing the other occupant of the bed to stir. Attuned to her own phone's ringtones, Sam O'Neill came a little more awake by the second ring. She flopped an arm over to the bedside table and silenced the ringer, squinting as she slid her finger across the screen to unlock the phone.

"Hello?" Her voice still hoarse from sleep, Sam cleared her throat as she listened to the caller. "Wait. What? Daniel? Slow down...what? Yeah, he's..." she glanced to her right. "Yes, he's here, why? What? No, I didn't hear...he did? Oh. Well, what can I say? It's," she glanced at her watch. "Daniel, it's two-twenty in the morning. Don't you ever sleep?"

Sam leaned back into pillows, smiling as Jack rolled back over and wrapped his arm around her stomach. She tucked the phone between her ear and the pillow, then dropped her hands down to cover his as her eyes slid closed. She "umm'd" and "ah ha'd" in appropriate places while Daniel chattered on. Finally, though, as the hands caressing her belly began to broaden their exploration, she decided enough was enough.

"Daniel. Why are you calling to tell me this? Or Jack, for that matter? Uh, huh. Yeah. Well, it's great really, but I don't see...Oh. Wait, I'll ask him."

Sam rolled backward into Jack's firm frame and tipped her head up. She kissed his cheek and whispered, "Jack."

"Shh, Jack's asleep."

Chuckling, Sam patted his still roaming hands. "No, Jack's quite awake, and I have my own ways of telling. Listen, Daniel wants–"

"Sam," Jack mumbled into her neck. "I really don't care. I'm not his CO anymore, and neither are you."

Sam nodded, despite knowing that Jack's eyes were closed. "I know. Listen, just call Hank and ask him to send Daniel to Cairo, okay?" She waited for him to acknowledge her, then added with a soft smile, "If he's there, he's less likely to call and...disturb...us for a few days."

She gave a little squeak as, with a move reminiscent of his days in the field, Jack quickly flipped her over and snatched the phone from the pillow. "Daniel. Fine. Consider it done. Pack. I'll call Landry in," he squinted at the bedside clock, "three hours." Without waiting for a response, Jack ended the call. He then flipped the tiny switch in the side of the phone to silence it and tossed it across the room to land neatly in the open laundry basket. He rolled back over, taking his surprised wife with him.

"Now, Colonel O'Neill. I think you need to get busy."

"Excuse me?" Sam laughed as his days growth of whiskers tickled her cheek and neck.

"We have, oh, three hours to kill before I drag Hank out of bed. How should we fill that time?

"Oh, I'm sure that if we put our heads together–"

She wasn't able to finish her sentence. Jack took possession of her lips and proceeded to illustrate just how he intended to spend the next little while. Sam joined in wholeheartedly, and neither were aware of the dancing vibrations of the little phone laying amidst yesterday's discarded socks.

--

Huh. Guess I had a ficlet in my head! Who knew? What will you write and/or post with that little prompt above?

Awwh Pol great ficlet to go with the piclet

[Jacquelyn]

Like there's a reason to hug Cam? I'd do it for no reason at all.

But yes--that's true about Continuum. I think that TPTB have confirmed it in whatever way they feel is necessary--it's just not going to be enough for 1) the naysayers, and 2) those of us who want (WANT!!!) a Big Honking Kiss. (Actually, I don't really want the kiss to honk--and I really don't like that suction sound effect that they always seem to use with on screen kisses. . .but I'd like to see them lock lips with suitable music in the background, at the very least.)

*confused* You're talking about who kissing??

EDIT:
Does anyone wonder why Jack didn't apologize to Sam in "Shades of Grey"?? I mean he apologized to Daniel (sorta) but didn't apoligize to Sam for what he said to her.

[Pol]

Huh. How'd I miss Kate1013 joining us? Welcome Kate! You're new to GW but not to writing fanfic, I've enjoyed yours often. You can find Kate's stuff here. Oh, she has no idea I'm pimping her work, lol...this should be fun.

Er...


Noise, you say?
What noise?
Sounded like...'thumping'? (beat) Carter? You hear anything like that?
I got nuthin'
Right. Carry on Sergeant. No odd noises in here.
(nods) Yup, all good here.
(mutters) Close
(equally soft) Oh yeah.

And...while I'm on a ficlet thing here, can I just remind folks of a few things? I'm seeing this in a spate of new fics and feel the need. It's OT (fic related) so...(fic writers, please read?)

Spoiler:

• It's Air Force and not airforce, air force, or Airforce
• There are no "corporals" in the US Air Force. We let the Army and Marine Corps (yes there's an "s" at the end of that) have those.
• We generally never call someone "Airman" unless they are actually an Airman. Even women. I've never heard someone referred to as Airwoman.
• If someone is a LtCol (or in prose, Lieutenant Colonel), they are referred to, and addressed, as simply "Colonel," unless it's for official (ie promotion) reasons.
• It's referred to as "service dress" and not "dress blues." I am guilty of writing that myself because it was slang we used in service. The former is correct, the latter...not.
• The BDU overshirt (the camouflaged thing over the t-shirt) is properly referred to as a blouse (though I can see avoiding using that for men, I do).
• This is a prose-form writing tip: If you are referring to Sam, it's Captain/Major/Lieutenant Colonel (say "Colonel)/Colonel Carter (or O'Neill, your choice). It's never "captain/major.... or worse, Cpt./Maj./Lt.Col/Col...those abbreviations are for listing on forms etc. Think of it as saying the words out loud in your head. Do you say, "Hi, Cpt" instead of "Hi, Captain."
• Maybe this is a new-generation military thing (or something people picked up from tv shows who made it up), but women are not (or not in my day, which was not so very long ago) referred to as "sir." Or "Sir." Women are "Ma'am," or by grade (Captain/Major/...).
• What else...oh! This one actually cracked me up. Ah, in the Air Force, we never say, "Aye, Sir/Ma'am." Well, Beckett might have, but he's a Scot (note I did not say Scotch, which is a drink). We save the "Aye's" for the Navy. Or voting.

Think that's it for the list. Just some things I have encountered with alarming and increasing frequency over the past few weeks in reading fanfic. Never meant to discourage, remember...feedback and critique are how we grow as writers. What you may think of as "style" may throw your readers out of the story causing them to throw your story off of their reader.

See? You can take the professor out of the classroom, but...

[Akamaimom]

*confused* You're talking about who kissing??

Sam and Jack. One way in which we might get confirmation is with a Big Honking Kiss (like Big Honking Space Gun--only with more locking of lips and less ion cannon).