Sam Carter /Jack O'Neill Ship Appreciation Thread 2.0

[Artie]

I believe that they are together--and happy, and fanfic is my way of portraying that, and allowing myself (mostly--hey--you write what you want to read, right?) to see and experience them being together in ways that we didn't get to see in the show. And--oh yeah--SOOO MARRIED!

Amen! I think they got together after Threads.

I suppose the thing I never understand is the idea that if they're an established relationship then it must be boring. That you have to draaaaaag it out way past it makes any sense to because having an established relationship means having no tension and no story.

I don't get that, because surely being an established relationship isn't easy for them. There are still the issue of rank and propriety and possibly secrecy. There are still all their past issues to give tons of angst. There are also so many ways that an enemy could use this relationship against either one or both of them, or ways that they could be tested. How would Sam choose between Jack's life and the safety of Earth? How does Jack cope with staying behind when she's out in the field? There's so much to do that isn't boring at all.

[SamJackShipper93]

Regarding Jack leaving the SGC after "Threads". One of the biggest things to use against an anti (though I'm also in agreement that you can't really convince an anti) is that I can't think of one single in-character reason why Jack would leave his job at the SGC and the give up the excitement and danger to take a full-time desk job clear across the country, except that it allows him to be with Sam.

He's away from his friends, he's in a job where he's stuck in a uniform all day (clothes that Jack has said he "abhors"), and dealing with politicians on a daily basis? That doesn't seem like the Jack O'Neill we had watched for the last eight years.

[Akamaimom]

Regarding Jack leaving the SGC after "Threads". One of the biggest things to use against an anti (though I'm also in agreement that you can't really convince an anti) is that I can't think of one single in-character reason why Jack would leave his job at the SGC and the give up the excitement and danger to take a full-time desk job clear across the country, except that it allows him to be with Sam.

He's away from his friends, he's in a job where he's stuck in a uniform all day (clothes that Jack has said he "abhors"), and dealing with politicians on a daily basis? That doesn't seem like the Jack O'Neill we had watched for the last eight years.

AMEN!!!! That's probably the best reasoning I've heard. And of course, we all know that reason doesn't do much for someone who is categorically opposed to the match, but it is still a great point!!!

[DutchIndeed]

Hey Ship Family!
*hugs*

Just a little reminder for the Shippy Hippies and non hippies who are looking for a party:

Tomorrow is the S.H.I.P.'s second anniversary and there's a party (Spoiled for those who aren't into the broccoli):

Spoiler:

There's still love for the Ship!
Soooo Married! *nods*

[seldear]

Regarding Jack leaving the SGC after "Threads". One of the biggest things to use against an anti (though I'm also in agreement that you can't really convince an anti) is that I can't think of one single in-character reason why Jack would leave his job at the SGC and the give up the excitement and danger to take a full-time desk job clear across the country, except that it allows him to be with Sam.

He's away from his friends, he's in a job where he's stuck in a uniform all day (clothes that Jack has said he "abhors"), and dealing with politicians on a daily basis? That doesn't seem like the Jack O'Neill we had watched for the last eight years.

Why does it have to be one reason only?

Why not because there's no-one else to take it on who knows what it's like on the ground? Because he's getting old and can't go out, so he can protect those who can? And because it means that he and Sam can develop that relationship they've been putting off for at least four years?

It doesn't have to be a single reason.

Also akamaimom? The truth is, there'd still be trouble for Sam if she and Jack got together openly after they were no longer in the chain of command. She's a woman - a beautiful one at that - who's risen through the ranks at a top-secret project. And while she's trusted and admired within the SGC, there's sure to be people outside the SGC, beyond the Stargate and the spaceship programs who will look at her and say, "well she probably just got it because she was screwing her commanding officer - who she's now with, by the way". Doesn't matter if it's true or not; mud clings.

Eek. I've just read through my post, and it probably seems like I'm not much of a Sam/Jack shipper! But I am! Honest! *waves shipper card around* I'm just a realist, too. I love my OTP(s), but to me, love doesn't have to involve them being sexually or romantically involved. That's a satisfying emotional payoff in the story, sure, but love comes in many guises and shows in many ways.

[hedwig]

For those who may not have read it yet, or for those who might like to reread it, this is one of my all-time favorite Sam/Jack stories:

Come Fly With Me by SG1-Fanfic

It has a few lines in it that just make me squeeeee every time I read them.

[Petra]

Why does it have to be one reason only?

Why not because there's no-one else to take it on who knows what it's like on the ground? Because he's getting old and can't go out, so he can protect those who can? And because it means that he and Sam can develop that relationship they've been putting off for at least four years?

It doesn't have to be a single reason.

Exactly. I have to admit that despite being a shipper I'd never say that Sam was the only, or even main, reason why Jack took the job in Washington. For me it's the mix of all 3 things mentioned above. After all it could be argued that the most defining Jack's characteristic is his sense of duty. And it's also how the antis explain his move.

The truth is, as was already said, that you can't convince an anti unless they want to be convinced, or are at least willing to keep an open mind - but generally they aren't and they don't. Speaking from personal experience here, even if you do find undisputable arguments that they can't counter they just tell you to leave their thread/go away/disappear because you get in the way of their fun. All in all, it's not worth the effort.

Also akamaimom? The truth is, there'd still be trouble for Sam if she and Jack got together openly after they were no longer in the chain of command. She's a woman - a beautiful one at that - who's risen through the ranks at a top-secret project. And while she's trusted and admired within the SGC, there's sure to be people outside the SGC, beyond the Stargate and the spaceship programs who will look at her and say, "well she probably just got it because she was screwing her commanding officer - who she's now with, by the way". Doesn't matter if it's true or not; mud clings.

Ok, I have a question for somebody with military knowledge. I've seen this issue - reputation and possibly further career hurt by the rumours - brought up numerous times, but always in relation to Sam. And my question is: what about Jack? Wouldn't be the bolded part true in his case too? Wouldn't he be in trouble? Doesn't CO/senior get blamed for taking advantage of their subordinate/junior officer? I've read one or two fanfics in which Jack's worried about repercussions for Sam's career if people found out about their relationship and she in turn reminds him that he'd get in more trouble than she, but I have no idea how accurate it is. Anyone?

[majorsal]

Amanda Tapping said something similiar at AT4 that she thinks Sam and Jack got together once they were no longer in the direct chain of command, sometime even before she went to Atlantis, and JM has also said he thinks they got together after Threads.

At the end of the day, it's open for interpretation. In my experience, you won't convince an anti-. They don't want to believe the same way we want to believe and paradigms are powerful things.

that's why it needs to be settled. or 'one' of the reasons it needs to be settled.

did they or didn't they get together? i need more of an answer, want more of an answer than 'probably'.

[Artie]

Exactly. I have to admit that despite being a shipper I'd never say that Sam was the only, or even main, reason why Jack took the job in Washington. For me it's the mix of all 3 things mentioned above. After all it could be argued that the most defining Jack's characteristic is his sense of duty. And it's also how the antis explain his move.

I totally agree with the three things, and I'd add a fourth one -- Jack is really burned out. The last couple of years, since Abyss in mid season six, have been absolutely horrible for him. He's been badly injured, deathly ill, frozen in stasis, had his mind taken over, had friends die.... And he's showing it. In Reckoning and Threads he's curiously passive. He waits for other people to come up with ideas, when once he would have been the one driving it all. He seems emotionally flat.

I think Jack has had it. He's burned out. He needs to get out of this stress for a while. He's essentially been deployed in a combat position for eight years. He could use some weekends and regular meals and not getting shot at for a while. He's not twenty five, and you couldn't find a more stressful job.

I can see Sam urging him to go to DC, not just because it would make the relationship possible, but because she can see he's not at the top of his game and is worried about him.

I've seen this issue - reputation and possibly further career hurt by the rumours - brought up numerous times, but always in relation to Sam. And my question is: what about Jack? Wouldn't be the bolded part true in his case too? Wouldn't he be in trouble? Doesn't CO/senior get blamed for taking advantage of their subordinate/junior officer? I've read one or two fanfics in which Jack's worried about repercussions for Sam's career if people found out about their relationship and she in turn reminds him that he'd get in more trouble than she, but I have no idea how accurate it is. Anyone?

Jack is the one who would have been in trouble at the SGC. My understanding is that the senior is the one held responsible, because they are in a position to sexually harass people who can't meaningfully say no. Now, we know Sam's not being coerced into anything, but someone in Jack's position, with the responsibility for sending subordinates into deadly situations, has tremendous scope to abuse those powers. And so he'd be the one in trouble. The assumption would be that a woman in that position would not meaningfully be able to reject his advances whether she wanted to or not, hence it would absolutely be wrong of him to make them.

That said, once it's no longer a direct chain of command issue, and he wouldn't face any kind of disciplinary hearing for it, it would probably be her reputation that would be hurt. He'd be cool, and she'd be a slut. (Good old double standard!) As Seldear says, "mud clings."

Anyhow, that's my two cents!

[majorsal]

Besides, the regs aren't an issue anymore because they are *so married*

*that* is soooo right!

[Nynaeve506]

When it comes to Jack leaving I suspect there were a lot of reasons - but I don't see why Sam being a primary reason is so bad. He knows how good it can be - he had a really great marriage - and I can see him coming to the end of nine years of bachelorhood - nine years of grieving and working through issues - coming to it and saying "I want this again." Maybe I'm in the minority but I don't see his relationship with Kerry as a response to Sam but as a marker that he was ready to finally move forward with his life. I think it was mentioned in the Discussion thread, but if he and Sam didn't have their deep connection, I think him and Kerry would have worked.

I'm not a romantic. I don't think there was some great moment that Jack realized "This is the woman I love and I will move the Earth for her." I'm of the opinion that he didn't know Sam still felt *that way* about him until that day in his backyard - and after that he was willing to take the risk to make it work. At the end of threads he's fifty-something and he's no doubt just *tired* and here's an opportunity to continue to make a difference without being on the frontlines - but more importantly it affords him the chance to let himself *be with someone he loves*. How many of us, who have happy relationships with our significant others, would be willing to make changes in our lives to let us be with them? How many of us already have?

:: shrugs :: Just my opinion

[yessika]

Amen! I think they got together after Threads.

I suppose the thing I never understand is the idea that if they're an established relationship then it must be boring. That you have to draaaaaag it out way past it makes any sense to because having an established relationship means having no tension and no story.

I don't get that, because surely being an established relationship isn't easy for them. There are still the issue of rank and propriety and possibly secrecy. There are still all their past issues to give tons of angst. There are also so many ways that an enemy could use this relationship against either one or both of them, or ways that they could be tested. How would Sam choose between Jack's life and the safety of Earth? How does Jack cope with staying behind when she's out in the field? There's so much to do that isn't boring at all.

I totally feel the same about the bolded, why does a relationship has to be such a no-no for tv shows? *sigh and shrug*

[mad_gater]

I totally agree with the three things, and I'd add a fourth one -- Jack is really burned out. The last couple of years, since Abyss in mid season six, have been absolutely horrible for him. He's been badly injured, deathly ill, frozen in stasis, had his mind taken over, had friends die.... And he's showing it. In Reckoning and Threads he's curiously passive. He waits for other people to come up with ideas, when once he would have been the one driving it all. He seems emotionally flat.

I think Jack has had it. He's burned out. He needs to get out of this stress for a while. He's essentially been deployed in a combat position for eight years. He could use some weekends and regular meals and not getting shot at for a while. He's not twenty five, and you couldn't find a more stressful job.

I can see Sam urging him to go to DC, not just because it would make the relationship possible, but because she can see he's not at the top of his game and is worried about him.



Jack is the one who would have been in trouble at the SGC. My understanding is that the senior is the one held responsible, because they are in a position to sexually harass people who can't meaningfully say no. Now, we know Sam's not being coerced into anything, but someone in Jack's position, with the responsibility for sending subordinates into deadly situations, has tremendous scope to abuse those powers. And so he'd be the one in trouble. The assumption would be that a woman in that position would not meaningfully be able to reject his advances whether she wanted to or not, hence it would absolutely be wrong of him to make them.

That said, once it's no longer a direct chain of command issue, and he wouldn't face any kind of disciplinary hearing for it, it would probably be her reputation that would be hurt. He'd be cool, and she'd be a slut. (Good old double standard!) As Seldear says, "mud clings."

Anyhow, that's my two cents!

one could argue though that the political wrangling he'd be dealing with is just as, if not more, hazardous to your health than getting shot at....think of what the poor man's blood pressure must be like most days dealing with what are probably essentially clones of Kinsey.....

[majorsal]

I totally feel the same about the bolded, why does a relationship has to be such a no-no for tv shows? *sigh and shrug*

i think it's just easier for the writers to write a 'what if' than a 'what is'. (it also takes more talent than some tv writers have to actually write an established relationship )

[seldear]

Well, another aspect of it is that these days, fans get very pissy if they don't get what they want (or, specifically, if they get something they don't want).

People whose jobs require keeping everyone happy tend to work in such a manner that they take care to make nobody unhappy.