Sam Carter /Jack O'Neill Ship Appreciation Thread 2.0

[majorsal]

Yes it was very bad writing, but how and when do you propose Jack spoke up? Out of nowhere after concluding a briefing, in the midst of battle offworld, in between checkups in the infirmary? It's not like he saw her dating plans coming after Grace. What was he supposed to say?

(snip)

I just don't know when he was supposed to bring it up according to you. The only times she brings it up he's dying and it's not like he would say something like that when she's already with someone else (since dating someone usually doesn't indicate you have feelings for someone else).

there's lots of different scenarios that could support jack talking to sam. i've seen fanfic writers do better in one paragraph than the writers did in an entire season.

and if you want me to tone down my sam favoritism, please do the same with jack. you're applying his motivations pretty heavily here. it's really hard to have an intelligent debate otherwise.

Like I said before; Sam is a grown woman, she makes her own choices. She could have just as easily approached him to seriously breach the subject about that thing between them if she was so unsure about his feelings and was contemplating moving on after her hallucinations in Grace.

yes she could.

see, i can acknowledge sam's weakness.

[hedwig]

Yes it was very bad writing, but how and when do you propose Jack spoke up? Out of nowhere after concluding a briefing, in the midst of battle offworld, in between checkups in the infirmary? It's not like he saw her dating plans coming after Grace. What was he supposed to say?

"Think nothing of it, I've got plenty of that. You know I still care about you more than I'm supposed to, right?"

Or when they talk about it in the elevator?

"Well, it's nothing serious or anything."
"Good, because I still care about you more than I'm supposed to."

I just don't know when he was supposed to bring it up according to you. The only times she brings it up he's dying and it's not like he would say something like that when she's already with someone else (since dating someone usually doesn't indicate you have feelings for someone else).

Like I said before; Sam is a grown woman, she makes her own choices. She could have just as easily approached him to seriously breach the subject about that thing between them if she was so unsure about his feelings and was contemplating moving on after her hallucinations in Grace.

I would suggest that every one of your reason for why Jack couldn't or wouldn't say anything, were the same reasons Sam didn't or couldn't say anything.

She felt it was up to him.
She could hardly ask him in the elevator if he had a problem with her dating, anymore than he could say he didn't want her to.
She didn't want to presume anything; she wasn't sure he still felt the same way about her as in D&C; she needed to hear it from him (I sure would).
She didn't want to be pushy or bold.
Either one or both of them could get in trouble for bringing the subject up (though I honestly don't think either one of them would report the other for bringing it up; if anything, it would stay in the room created in D&C, which btw wasn't locked IMO).

...(since dating someone usually doesn't indicate you have feelings for someone else).

I disagree. Many, many people go out and date somebody else when they have feelings for another guy/girl. It happens all the time. Lots of people break up with someone, and are promptly out dating somebody else within days or even a few weeks of breaking up with someone or giving up on a possible relationship. At the time of the elevator scene, Sam and Pete had barely known each other for a week or two, so it wasn't like there were any big feelings between them at that point. And Sam even said it wasn't serious. I doubt she would have said anything at all if Jack hadn't come right out and asked her who the guy was that she was humming about. He opened the door; the opportunity to speak was right there. Had he had done so right then, I think Sam would have politely told Pete that he'd been fun, but she wouldn't be seeing him again.

[Lucycat]

The whole thing could have been handled much better by the writers. Especially if they had made the cop's character more likable, better looking or at least somewhat in the same league of Jack O'Neill. I get that they were apparently aiming for what we got with the background check and stalking etc, but I thought the whole point of getting Sam a boyfriend was because AT was trying/contemplating (?) to get pregnant. I seriously don't see how they could have Sam have that guy's kid, no matter the circumstances (i.e. her dumping him and becoming a single mother?)...
.

I don't think this was why they gave Sam a boyfriend. I don't think they would have made Sam pregnant if AT got pregnant during shooting... at least, I hope they wouldn't have. But who knows? She did get pregnant in season 8, but they just put her in baggy clothes and desert robes (Moebius) and had her stand behind the table in her lab

[majorsal]

At the time of the elevator scene, Sam and Pete had barely known each other for a week or two, so it wasn't like there were any big feelings between them at that point. And Sam even said it wasn't serious. I doubt she would have said anything at all if Jack hadn't come right out and asked her who the guy was that she was humming about. He opened the door; the opportunity to speak was right there. Had he had done so right then, I think Sam would have politely told Pete that he'd been fun, but she wouldn't be seeing him again.

does anyone know of a fic where this scenario happened? i'd love to read it!!

[majorsal]

I don't think this was why they gave Sam a boyfriend. I don't think they would have made Sam pregnant if AT got pregnant during shooting... at least, I hope they wouldn't have. But who knows? She did get pregnant in season 8, but they just put her in baggy clothes and desert robes (Moebius) and had her stand behind the table in her lab

sam wasn't given a boyfriend b/c amanda was wanting to have a baby. amanda said that they wouldn't have written in the pregnancy, by her wishes.

[Lucycat]

sam wasn't given a boyfriend b/c amanda was wanting to have a baby. amanda said that they wouldn't have written in the pregnancy, by her wishes.

I'm glad they listen to her in some cases (not all, I know, but some!)

[Treknik]

I have a question about the frat regs: Aren't they in place for those in the military who protect THIS country, and in some situations against the catastrophe of other countries? Isn't there a loophole in regards to the "other" military that explores planets and protects earth from intergalactic bad guys? Is there some clause in the UCMJ that states this? I would think not, since the Stargate is a classified assignment.

Ok, that was more than one question but I started thinking about the 'by the book' regs that pretty much don't cover the 'not by the book' Stargate program.

So in conclusion:

[hedwig]

sam wasn't given a boyfriend b/c amanda was wanting to have a baby. amanda said that they wouldn't have written in the pregnancy, by her wishes.

She didn't want her character to be turned into a character like that, so instead they turned her character into something else that made her character look rather bad. Not too much difference in either scenario.

Apparently she also didn't like where this whole scenario was heading (even though she liked that they gave Carter a boyfriend so she could be more well rounded or in AT's words, "a more informed character"), but she let herself be talked out of it and went along with the scenario anyway. I should say that she didn't have any problem (her own words in some interviews) about the whole Pete/stalker/background check thing. But when she got the script for "Affinity", she balked and called Rob Cooper to discuss it and said her fans were going to hate her after they saw the episode, and he talked her out of it somehow. How I wish she'd stuck to her guns over that one.

[SaraBahama]

BUT, i do lay blame, or stupidity and weakness on *both* their shoulders. you've got this woman stumbling around, trying to move on but failing miserably, and this guy just standing back and letting her. and all the while, WE, the viewers, have to fill in the blanks, b/c the writers left too many ambiguous threads dangling. *we* are applying ideas to their motivations more than what we saw on the screen. (kind of like how we're *guessing* on whether they got together or not )

Sal knows that they are *together* and living happily in MY head...lol
I think I would go nuts if I even momentarily played host to the alternative idea...too horrible to contemplate...

[Treknik]

Sal knows that they are *together* and living happily in MY head...lol
I think I would go nuts if I even momentarily played host to the alternative idea...too horrible to contemplate...

And that alternate idea is...

[hlndncr]

I have a question about the frat regs: Aren't they in place for those in the military who protect THIS country, and in some situations against the catastrophe of other countries? Isn't there a loophole in regards to the "other" military that explores planets and protects earth from intergalactic bad guys? Is there some clause in the UCMJ that states this? I would think not, since the Stargate is a classified assignment.

Ok, that was more than one question but I started thinking about the 'by the book' regs that pretty much don't cover the 'not by the book' Stargate program.

So in conclusion:

So I hate to be a heritic and all, but I really hate fics where there is an exception to the frat regs for the SGC. First, because the regs can't just be waived away by order of the president. That's not how these things work, even for top secret projects. Second, the purpose of the frat regs are to maintain morale, good order and discipline. The very insular nature of the SGC would make the frat regs more essential, not less.

In short, I know in my heart Sam and Jack are together and happy and they did it the right way by waiting to talk about their feelings and act upon them.

[SaraBahama]

I have a question about the frat regs: Aren't they in place for those in the military who protect THIS country, and in some situations against the catastrophe of other countries? Isn't there a loophole in regards to the "other" military that explores planets and protects earth from intergalactic bad guys? Is there some clause in the UCMJ that states this? I would think not, since the Stargate is a classified assignment.
Ok, that was more than one question but I started thinking about the 'by the book' regs that pretty much don't cover the 'not by the book' Stargate program.
So in conclusion:

*Spoiler for length only*

Spoiler:

AIR FORCE INSTRUCTION 36-2909: "Unprofessional relationships are those interpersonal relationships that erode good order, discipline, respect for authority, unit cohesion and, ultimately, mission accomplishment.
1. General. Professional relationships are essential to the effective operation of all organizations, both
military and civilian, but the nature of the military mission requires absolute confidence in command and
an unhesitating adherence to orders that may result in inconvenience, hardships or, at times, injury or
death. This distinction makes the maintenance of professional relationships in the military more critical
than in civilian organizations. While personal relationships between Air Force members are normally
matters of individual choice and judgment, they become matters of official concern when they adversely
affect or have the reasonable potential to adversely affect the Air Force by eroding morale, good order,
discipline, respect for authority, unit cohesion or mission accomplishment. Professional relationships are
those interpersonal relationships consistent with Air Force core values: integrity first, service before self,
and excellence in all we do. Military members understand that the needs of the institution will sometimes
outweigh personal desires. This guidance focuses on the impact of personal relationships on the interests
of the Air Force as an institution. The guidance set forth in this instruction is based, in part, on the custom
against fraternization that has been a part of and enforced within the American military for over 200 years."

So the problem is internal rather than external...and the purpose of the regs would hold true even off-world. *sadly*

Of course, the whole team had become so close as the series went on, it flew in the face of the regs anyway. If they were seriously trying to prevent the above problems, they would have periodically rotated the team members out (to other teams).

[majorsal]

Sal knows that they are *together* and living happily in MY head...lol
I think I would go nuts if I even momentarily played host to the alternative idea...too horrible to contemplate...

but your head is *so* small, and that doesn't give them the proper room to, you know, uh...

oh, i forgot you have a large backyard in your head too! gives them to the room too, you know... uh...

[majorsal]

In short, I know in my heart Sam and Jack are together and happy and they did it the right way by waiting to talk about their feelings and act upon them.

hindncr's sally's disclaimer:

just in case some ptw are reading this, let it be known that 'in my heart' and 'in my head' are NOT canon, so to *make* it canon, and make it REAL, please put in a scene or dialog where it's proven - P.R.O.V.E.N - that sam and jack got together. and stayed together. are happy. happily together. yes.

[/disclaimer]

[SaraBahama]

but your head is *so* small, and that doesn't give them the proper room to, you know, uh...
oh, i forgot you have a large backyard in your head too! gives them to the room too, you know... uh...

*blushes furiously*

Sal! I didn't know you had cameras in my head!!
There IS a large backyard in my head...and a pond... and...umm...

Spoiler:

...a blanket beneath the stars...a telescope standing ignored in the moonlight...slow, delicate kisses...

OK -I'm done