Sam Carter /Jack O'Neill Ship Appreciation Thread 2.0

[hlndncr]

I guess it makes sense to me. I could certainly provide comfort to a dear friend and then stand aside for the person they loved most. After all, life is complicated, and love is a beautiful and wonderful thing to be shared, not hoarded and given stintingly and grudgingly. I took it as a sign of how mature and complete these characters were, and how selfless their relationships. I mean, what could possibly be more selfish than to expect fidelity of someone who would never see you again? I can't imagine that one could say that Jack loved Sam if he wanted her to be unhappy that way, or to spend the rest of her life in mourning him when she had a chance for happiness with someone else. I just don't see him as being that selfish. After all, he loved Sara before Sam, and then found a second chance at love and happiness. How could he begrudge Sam the same second chance that he'd already had?

Personally, I wouldn't find any unhappiness in being faithful. Absolute fidelity in marriage is a true sign of love, maturity, and self-respect.

And the situation with Sara is not comparable. Jack was divorced. His marriage to Sara had legally ended when Jack and Sam fell in love.

As I stated before I am of the mind that Jack and Sam were legally married at the time of Unending. There was no divorce or annulment. Sam was not a widow. Long separation is not a sufficient excuse for adultary, which is by its very nature an extremely selfish act.

[Artie]

Personally, I wouldn't find any unhappiness in being faithful. Absolute fidelity in marriage is a true sign of love, maturity, and self-respect.

And the situation with Sara is not comparable. Jack was divorced. His marriage to Sara had legally ended when Jack and Sam fell in love.

As I stated before I am of the mind that Jack and Sam were legally married at the time of Unending. There was no divorce or annulment. Sam was not a widow. Long separation is not a sufficient excuse for adultary, which is by its very nature an extremely selfish act.

As much as we might like it, there's no canon that Jack and Sam are married in season ten. In fact, 200 strongly suggests they aren't, though Vala thinks they should be.

And surely if Sam has been missing for twenty, thirty, forty years she's legally dead. Jack is legally and as far as he knows a widower even if they were married. Often in the military people are missing in action, and there is very little closure for their families, sometimes not ever. But at some point people have to move on and accept the fact that someone isn't coming back, even if there is no body to bury. Jack and Sam both understand this, and they both know that any relationship between them may end this way -- it's part of the hazard of being with someone in the service. Not that it would be easy, but in twenty or thirty or forty years?

[Gumarx]

As much as we might like it, there's no canon that Jack and Sam are married in season ten. In fact, 200 strongly suggests they aren't, though Vala thinks they should be.

And surely if Sam has been missing for twenty, thirty, forty years she's legally dead. Jack is legally and as far as he knows a widower even if they were married. Often in the military people are missing in action, and there is very little closure for their families, sometimes not ever. But at some point people have to move on and accept the fact that someone isn't coming back, even if there is no body to bury. Jack and Sam both understand this, and they both know that any relationship between them may end this way -- it's part of the hazard of being with someone in the service. Not that it would be easy, but in twenty or thirty or forty years?

Except this was in a time dilation field, so although it was many years for Sam it was only seconds for Jack.

I'd never even imagined that Sam was with anyone else during that time, not just because of my Sam/Jack love but because it just didn't seem implied much at all. I guess I could see how one could read into the scene where Teal'c is providing comfort to Sam after her conversation with Landry; however, I believe we are to assume he has died and Teal'c is comforting her over his death. Heck, you could read into the mistletoe kiss with Cam if you wanted to.

Teal'c has always seemed an individual of great passion - I believe if he were pursuing a relationship with anyone it would be quite apparent, and not a read between the lines sort of thing.

[hedwig]

And surely if Sam has been missing for twenty, thirty, forty years she's legally dead. Jack is legally and as far as he knows a widower even if they were married. Often in the military people are missing in action, and there is very little closure for their families, sometimes not ever. But at some point people have to move on and accept the fact that someone isn't coming back, even if there is no body to bury. Jack and Sam both understand this, and they both know that any relationship between them may end this way -- it's part of the hazard of being with someone in the service. Not that it would be easy, but in twenty or thirty or forty years?

Jack would be dead by then (maybe even in 10 to 20 years), and Sam would be in her 80's or 90's.

And given that "Unending" was supposed to span 50 years, it's amazing that any of them (besides Teal'c) were still alive. They all had to be 90 or more by then.

[leiasky]

And before anyone says, "Oh but it was fifty years and she shouldn't have to be alone forever" I have to say that it wasn't 50 years, it was a few seconds that felt like 50 years. Jack is still alive. And I think Sam has proven that she has the ability, the integrity, and the devotion to honor her vows for as long as required.

It was 50 years. Only, there was a reset and only Teal'c remembers those 50 years.

I never saw anything in Unending but a close bond between Teal'c and Sam. We even see that when he comforts her in the locker room after Jack goes missing in Paradise Lost. He loves and cares for his friends deeply. I don't find it out of the realm of possibility that he offered comfort to Sam as she mourned Jack during that 50 years.

I'd never even known Amanda and Chris played it that way until I listened to the commentary - YEARS later.

It definitely didn't come across to me in how it was shot.

I guess it makes sense to me. I could certainly provide comfort to a dear friend and then stand aside for the person they loved most. After all, life is complicated, and love is a beautiful and wonderful thing to be shared, not hoarded and given stintingly and grudgingly. I took it as a sign of how mature and complete these characters were, and how selfless their relationships. I mean, what could possibly be more selfish than to expect fidelity of someone who would never see you again? I can't imagine that one could say that Jack loved Sam if he wanted her to be unhappy that way, or to spend the rest of her life in mourning him when she had a chance for happiness with someone else. I just don't see him as being that selfish. After all, he loved Sara before Sam, and then found a second chance at love and happiness. How could he begrudge Sam the same second chance that he'd already had?

I have to agree. And Teal'c's actions in past episodes do seem to support this view.

[hlndncr]

I understand that Jack and Sam being married is not cannon. That is my own conceit. And I'm very happy with that conceit and don't plan on changing my point of view even in the face of overwhelming evidence. All my other points do follow from that assumption. So if someone doesn't want to believe they were married that's fine. Other assumptions can be made from that point. I just choose not to entertain them.

We may be talking about 50 years from Sam's POV, but in real time it was only a few seconds. I seriously doubt Jack had Sam declared dead after a few seconds; although if he was somehow made aware of the Ori attacks he was probably worried for her safety.

And I'm just going to throw out here right now that I seriously dislike this episode, especially as a series finally. It was extremely unsatisfying on many levels.

I also choose to believe that Teal'c's actions mirrored those in Paradise Lost and were the sign of a good friend and nothing more.

[Lilac736]

I understand that Jack and Sam being married is not cannon. That is my own conceit. And I'm very happy with that conceit and don't plan on changing my point of view even in the face of overwhelming evidence. All my other points do follow from that assumption. So if someone doesn't want to believe they were married that's fine. Other assumptions can be made from that point. I just choose not to entertain them.

We may be talking about 50 years from Sam's POV, but in real time it was only a few seconds. I seriously doubt Jack had Sam declared dead after a few seconds; although if he was somehow made aware of the Ori attacks he was probably worried for her safety.

And I'm just going to throw out here right now that I seriously dislike this episode, especially as a series finally. It was extremely unsatisfying on many levels.

I also choose to believe that Teal'c's actions mirrored those in Paradise Lost and were the sign of a good friend and nothing more.

I agree with you on the bolded part. That's how I took it, too. But I think Artie is right, life is a complicated thing and 50 years is a lot of time. They lived a whole life together on this ship, much longer then Sam and Jack have known each other. So for me a relationship between Sam and Teal'c would definitely be a possibility, but I see no evidence. What I could not believe is that Teal'c would just stand aside when they are back in time. That would imply that it was only a convenience while their respective partners where not available. I think things are not that easy when emotions are involved. And even if Sam has no memory of this time, Teal'c has.

[Kate1013]

Whooo... there's nothing like the Unending debate to make this thread come alive! ;-)

Finally finished my secret santa! woo! But I am now an official sap!

[Akamaimom]

Whooo... there's nothing like the Unending debate to make this thread come alive! ;-)

Finally finished my secret santa! woo! But I am now an official sap!

Nothing?

How about this--

Who is Grace?

[Lilac736]

Nothing?

How about this--

Who is Grace?

Nice one!

[leiasky]

Nothing?

How about this--

Who is Grace?

A figment of Sam's imagination.

[DutchIndeed]

*runs in*

Sam's inner child!


EDIT: Oh aaaaand... Jolinar.

*runs out again, waving*

[Kate1013]

A figment of Sam's imagination.

And we're off!!

[Gumarx]

An image created by the "gas cloud" in an attempt to communicate with Sam.

[hedwig]

An image created by the "gas cloud" in an attempt to communicate with Sam.

Which wanted her to come and play instead of doing anything else.