Jack O'Neill/ Sam Carter - Part of a team, not a ship

[avatar]

Okay, I'm going to try and say something without getting pelted with things. And please don't turn this into a discussion, because like it says, this isn't a shipper/anti-shipper debate thread.

I was just wonder if it's possible to be both a shipper and an anti-shipper all at once. I don't completely distest the idea of Sam and Jack being together, but I hate that it takes up so much screentime. If they're "in love" or whatever (I use the term loosely), then they should just flippin' get together and it get it over with. I just hate that it was so much the focus of S7, everytime Sam looked at him she had the goo goo eyes look. Why should something as trivial as ship turning my once favorite character into a wishy washy person? And whilst Sam is doing her goo goo eyes, it makes Jack look like an ass for completely ignoring her.

If TPTB are going to entertain the idea of an S/J relationship, why can't they do it in a way that doesn't screw up the rest of the show? It's not the concept I detest (cause I don't place any importance in it), I just hate the way it's portrayed.

And I won't even get into the Pete discussion...was there even a point to having him there? It made Sam look even worse, sleeping with Pete and angsting after Jack all at once.

Now everyone of Sam's actions toward Jack will be tainted be the ill approached and overly blatant ship of S7.

Okay, so I don't belong on either the shipper or anti-shipper thread, because I somehow agree with certain aspects of both points of view.

....I'm going back to lurking now...

[ShadowMaat]

Okay, I'm going to try and say something without getting pelted with things.

*pelts avatar with things*
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I was just wonder if it's possible to be both a shipper and an anti-shipper all at once.

You aren't alone in that sentiment. I know of several shippers who are... annoyed with the blatantness of ship this past season. They prefer it subtle, like you. If neither thread makes you comfortable, why not revive the ship discussion thread? Then you can have the best (and worst) of both worlds.

[MartoufMarty]

well if they made the sam/jack stuff not so

IN

YOUR

FACE

YOU

CAN'T

WATCH

THIS

EPISODE

WITHOUT

SEEING

42 MINUTES

OF

IT

i wouldn't really mind. i would just be able to ignore it better

there was just too much in season 7. it was sickening. i'm watching this show to watch them blow up stuff and go to other planets and discover this and that and so on. not go all goo-goo eyes and make out every five seconds. if i wanted to see that i'd watch something like One Tree Hill or Torched By An Angel or The OC or something, but i don't because i want to see the explosions and that lol... *whines* lol.

[avatar]

*pelts avatar with things*
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You aren't alone in that sentiment. I know of several shippers who are... annoyed with the blatantness of ship this past season. They prefer it subtle, like you. If neither thread makes you comfortable, why not revive the ship discussion thread? Then you can have the best (and worst) of both worlds.

*pelts ShadowMaat back*

Anyway, I think I'm going to play around here a bit, if none of you 100% anti S/J people mind. I'm leaning heavily on the anti-ship crutch at this point, and you guys seem very receptive to that concept. And what the hey, you all might be able to sway me into your utter, 100% dislike for it, I'm very easily persuaded.

And onto a generalization: Any clue why some shippers seem to dislike Daniel? Does it have something to do with the fact that the Jack/Daniel aspect interferes with their sphere of shippiness? What little ship I've ever liked in the past didn't interfere with my opinion of Daniel at all. Or is the disliking of Daniel coinciding with the liking of ship just a coincidence?

P.S. You guys seem to be alot less...rabid that the shippers.

[ShadowMaat]

P.S. You guys seem to be alot less...rabid that the shippers.

Dang, we're gonna have to try harder.

It's tough to speculate on why some S/J shippers don't like Daniel. Yes, I'm sure some of them don't like him because of the Jack/Daniel interference, but there are non-shippers who don't like Daniel, too, so it's likely just a concidence.

Personally I'm very disappointed (bordering on disgusted) with what has happened (or more accurately hasn't happened) with Daniel's character since his return. But that's a subject for another thread, as is speculation on shippers themselves. Due to the nature of this thread, it isn't fair to say things about the shippers when they would be unable to post here and defend themselves. That's what the ship discussion thread is for.

You're welcome to stay here and play, so long as you behave as well as the rest of us do.

[avatar]

You're welcome to stay here and play, so long as you behave as well as the rest of us do.

I always play nice. So here I begin my voyage into the waters of anti ship...

[Dani347]

The problem with just getting Jack and Sam together and not having it take up the rest of the show, is that they've established, not only in the real world but in the Stargate universe they aren't allowed together because they're in the military. So, they have to dance around it, and make Sam look wishy washy, and chalk it up to "they're allowed to have feelings" because by the guidelines that the show follows, they can't do anything else.

If they wanted to be able to entertain the idea of ship, they should have not made the SGC a military operation, or flaunted the rules of the real military from the beginning, and just said, "Hey, it's just fiction." They didn't, their hands are tied, and yet they're doing everything they can to tap dance and weasel out of it.

[Shipperahoy]

And onto a generalization: Any clue why some shippers seem to dislike Daniel? Does it have something to do with the fact that the Jack/Daniel aspect interferes with their sphere of shippiness? What little ship I've ever liked in the past didn't interfere with my opinion of Daniel at all. Or is the disliking of Daniel coinciding with the liking of ship just a coincidence?

It is generalizations like these that can cause bad feelings between the different groups. This is a thread to discuss why you don't like ship not to talk about shippers in a thread where they aren't able to respond. And for the record I love Daniel and am a Jack/Daniel fan as many of the regulars here know. Liking one aspect of the show doesn't necessarily preclude a person from liking other aspects. Although if this is a topic you would like to discuss further I would suggest taking it over to the Ship Discussion thread that Shadow so kindly pulled back up and I'm sure some shippers would be happy to discuss how ship does or doesn't affect Jack/Daniel.

I apologize if my posting here troubles anyone but I felt that, as a mod, I had to respond to this post.

[darklilac]

It is generalizations like these that can cause bad feelings between the different groups. Liking one aspect of the show doesn't necessarily preclude a person from liking other aspects.

This is true and it's not fair to discuss about shippers if they're not here to reply.
But, it's also true that TPTB censored and cut Jack and Daniel scenes to push the JS ship(they admitted it), so maybe it's ok to discuss how the JS ship influenced the scenes and relationship between the member of the team, expecially Jack and Daniel.

[SallyK]

This is true and it's not fair to discuss about shippers if they're not here to reply.
But, it's also true that TPTB censored and cut Jack and Daniel scenes to push the JS ship(they admitted it), so maybe it's ok to discuss how the JS ship influenced the scenes and relationship between the member of the team, expecially Jack and Daniel.

There are two separate issues here I think.

I don't think there is any problem with talking about the effect S/J ship has had on the rest of the relationships within the team.

The problem arises if someone starts talking about other fans, making generalisations about particular groups, when they are not here to put their point of view. Sorry, avatar, I'm not meaning to have a go at you particularly, it is just that I have seen it happen before and it tends to lead to trouble.

SallyK

[Shipperahoy]

This is true and it's not fair to discuss about shippers if they're not here to reply.
But, it's also true that TPTB censored and cut Jack and Daniel scenes to push the JS ship(they admitted it), so maybe it's ok to discuss how the JS ship influenced the scenes and relationship between the member of the team, expecially Jack and Daniel.

Absolutely. This is an anti-ship thread so people are free to say how much they hate it and that they think it's ruining the show or affecting other characters and to use as many descriptive phrases as they want while doing it as long as it doesn't turn into an attack on any group of actual people. So have at it and have fun.

[the_fours]

im not completely sure but i think the problem began on the original anti jack/sam ship thread that i posted on delphi. I have vague recolections of someone coming into the anti-ship thread and bashing anti-shippers. This could have helped build a stereotype about shippers.

anyway back on to subject: i hate the sam/jack ship

[ShadowMaat]

im not completely sure but i think the problem began on the original anti jack/sam ship thread that i posted on delphi. I have vague recolections of someone coming into the anti-ship thread and bashing anti-shippers.

Sadly, you aren't wrong about that, which is why I was very careful with the wording in the first post so that it was absolutely clear that no bashing of us would be allowed. SO FAR it seems to be working.

The more I see, the more I hate S/J ship.

[darklilac]

Spoilers
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They think they can fool us with these new spoilers about Pete, but they're wrong(New Order).
Again the Pete character is used by TPTB to push the ship even more, so the episodes will be full of JS ship and Sam love life, where the heck did Daniel, Teal'c, the stargate and mythology go?
What is wrong with these people, can't they understand that the Sam love saga is not what made Stargate great?
Daniel has a lot of fans and is one of the most popular characters, things will not change because TPTB don't want this to be.
And why Sam is now only "the girl" and all her stories are about love?
She used to be a scientist and a soldier.
I'm even more worried about Jack, he will be barely there so if he will spend all his time in boring shippy scenes and farting his character will be ruined forever.

[Madeleine]

im not completely sure but i think the problem began on the original anti jack/sam ship thread that i posted on delphi. I have vague recolections of someone coming into the anti-ship thread and bashing anti-shippers. This could have helped build a stereotype about shippers.

TO ALL

It doesn't really matter where the problem 'began', the main thing is to make sure it has ended. So no lumping *any* somewhat-like-minded folks together as a group for the purpose of criticising. Thanks.