Jack O'Neill/ Sam Carter - Part of a team, not a ship

[Jonisa]

While I detest S/J ship, I don’t impart any blame on the shipper community. That blame all falls squarely on the shoulders of the writers, producers, and any other execs that had the bright idea to blatantly acknowledging it, and then continue tossing it in our faces. The shipper community is just enjoying that particular aspect of the show they like so I don’t begrudge them their happiness even though I wretch at the thought of S & J getting together, but that’s just me.

Yep, blame the producers! I'm all for that. That's what they get paid for anyway.

*Starts writing nasty letter...* Nah, not worth my time.

Seriously, even though I didn't enjoy the shippiness of the later episodes at all, and didn't even watch the shippy parts because they made me cringe so much, the one part I did like was the thought that the scenes I disliked were making a lot of shippers happy. Hey, at least some people were enjoying it! It would have been nice if it was me, but...oh well. Can't have everything.

I might disagree with the shippers (and believe me, I do), and I might switch away from Stargate anytime I hear shippy music or see a schmoopy S/J scene coming on, but I love the fact I can watch an episode and see something completely different than another viewer...er...shipper.

Besides, there should be very little ship next year, seeing as half of the couple will hardly be on the show. What little there is (if any) shouldn't overtake the show. Nothing compared to the past two years, anyway, I fervently hope. So the shippers got what they were hoping for and now I (as a non-shipper) can concentrate on Season 9.

Wow, this was sort of a shippy post. *Jonisa holds out her anti-ship/non-ship credentials for everyone to see.*

[Easter Lily]

Yep, blame the producers! I'm all for that. That's what they get paid for anyway.

I "blame" the producers for encouraging it but I suspect also that they wouldn't have taken it to the extent that they have if it wasn't for the support that they believe that they have. But in the case of S/J, it was overused and overdone...
I don't want to start any wars here... what's done is done... and if it makes one side of Stargate fandom happy so be it. Just because I'm not convinced by the so-called romance it doesn't mean other people aren't. Titanic being another case in point.

Besides, there should be very little ship next year, seeing as half of the couple will hardly be on the show. What little there is (if any) shouldn't overtake the show. Nothing compared to the past two years, anyway, I fervently hope. So the shippers got what they were hoping for and now I (as a non-shipper) can concentrate on Season 9.

One can only hope...

[Jonisa]

I "blame" the producers for encouraging it but I suspect also that they wouldn't have taken it to the extent that they have if it wasn't for the support that they believe that they have. But in the case of S/J, it was overused and overdone...

Agree, and agree again. I don't begrudge people letting the producers know what they want to see, hey, anyone can do it, but I do wish it wouldn't have gone as far as it did. <Sigh>

I don't want to start any wars here... what's done is done... and if it makes one side of Stargate fandom happy so be it. Just because I'm not convinced by the so-called romance it doesn't mean other people aren't.

Yep, that's the attitude that I've had to adopt as well. It just seemed like such a waste of my energy to get all upset about it. Has the whole ship thing lessened my enjoyment of the show? Unfortunately, yes. I never used to turn off the show part way through but I have a lot this year. I don't blame that completely on ship because sometimes I just felt it was a poor episode, but I do partially blame it on the ship because at times I turned Stargate off simply because it got too shippy for me.

It's worrying because during Season 8 I've been heading toward apathy toward Stargate, which is the beginning of the end for me. That's why I'm hoping Season 9 will regenerate my interest. We shall see.

Also, I need to remind myself every once in awhile that my anti-ship views are neither more worthy nor less worthy than someone else's pro-ship views. It helps me to remember that, especially when I find myself getting all disgruntled about it. They could have gone either way, they chose the way I didn't like, unfortunately.

One can only hope...

Jonisa crosses her fingers and rubs her rabbit foot hoping for very little S/J ship next year.

[Dr.Fraiser]

I guess what my point to all this is that there are many Sam and Jack shippers who do not like what the writers have done to the characters of Sam and Jack. We've never wanted Stargate to turn into a soap opera, nor did we want it to become the Sam and Jack hour. I don't like the angst... I have never liked the angst. I liked seeing Sam smile and laugh at Jack's silly jokes. I liked seeing them be comfortable with one another. I liked seeing the easy going, laid-back Jack, not the stone-faced and closed off Jack he's become. I really hate that the writers have taken a strong, independant, brilliant character like Sam and made her behave in ways that provoke other fans to berate or make jokes about her.

I appreciate your view. Its nice to see a shipper voice some disapproval with what the writers have done. I gather from your comment above - you enjoyed subtle. Us anti-shippers could turn away in the days of subtle ship and concentrate on elements of the show we enjoy. I had no problem with subtle. Blatant as I posted earlier, is what has turned me off the show.

You've also hit it right on the head about Sam's character development. Its sad that a great role model is now reduced to relationship chasing. Its criminal what the writers have done to her character. If I recall though AT has encouraged Sam's personal life on display in pre S7 interviews- so AT is partially to blame to for the mess her character has become.

I did not choose to make this relationship up, it was wrapped up with a bow and given to me by the writers. I only chose to open the box and enjoy what was given to me.

I can't fault you for that. We all have aspects of the show we enjoy. I do fault the writers. They've sacrificed the old team chemistry and thought during S7 "hey lets develop Sam." Sam was at her best a member of the team, bring brilliant and being a wonderful role model. The "development" taking us into her bed and her private life has been a disaster. Its taken the focus off the team and turned the show into a soap. Thats not what I signed up for. I imagine many others feel that way too.

I really think that the writers really have gone out of their way to force a wedge into the different factions of Stargate. They seem to really write their episodes to antagonize each group by misdirecting and implying things that really never needed to be there. From what I have read, Moebius is a prime example of this. They tried so hard to write this episode so each faction was given a tiny bit of what they wanted, but not enough to really make anyone happy. Thus in the end, everyone ends up being a bit disappointed.

I'm not sure I concur with you on this point. TPTB have made the critical error that they listen to the fans too much. I've always been told in my career that if you listen to the most vocal of those whom you are trying to reach - they will drive you right off a cliff. For every fan who speaks up passionately, there are 10, 20 or more casual fans who happen to watch Stargate. Those fans who don't speak up are the show's bread and butter. When they start falling off the vine - thats a red flag.

I miss the old days when they just wrote great shows without all the fan placating and gave them to us. Where I could sit down for 45 minutes (props, Showtime) think, be entertained and enjoy non cliched television.

[lov-lee-sg1]

Thank you for starting this thread!

[jckfan55]

You've also hit it right on the head about Sam's character development. Its sad that a great role model is now reduced to relationship chasing. Its criminal what the writers have done to her character. If I recall though AT has encouraged Sam's personal life on display in pre S7 interviews- so AT is partially to blame to for the mess her character has become.

Of course there's a difference between saying as an actor, "l'd like some more aspects to this character, including personal life" and *writing* some of the tripe we've seen. I don't have the inside scoop on this, but from other things I've read, I think the actors pretty much have to deal with the scripts they're handed.

I'm not sure I concur with you on this point. It may be a case of the writers listening to the fans too much and trying to please everyone. TPTB may have made the critical error that they listen to the fans too much. I've always been told in my career that if you listen to the most vocal of those whom you are trying to reach - they will drive you right off a cliff. For every fan who speaks up passionately, there are 10, 20 or more casual fans who happen to watch Stargate. Those fans who don't speak up are the show's bread and butter. When they start falling off the vine - thats a red flag.

Amen.

[Liv]

I had no problem with subtle. Blatant as I posted earlier, is what has turned me off the show.

Ditto. Had it not been for the fact that Ben Browder is joining SG-1 for season 9 and there being plenty of other changes in store, I seriously doubt I would have bothered to watch it at all. There were just TOO many shippy, awkward Sam/Jack moments in season 8 for me to ignore. Too many "out of the blue" - scenes whacking me over the head. Being stuck in "cringemode" for a majority of an episode is not the most enjoyable way to watch a show; it tends to get tiresome after a while. It's just not pretty.

I'm just so fed up with the whole "will they/won't they" angst dragging on forever (not to mention the complete and utter lack of chemistry and any kind of believability in the "ship" actually working out - as well as a dozen other factors that only adds to my negativity of the whole thing) that when I go back to rewatch earlier episodes it starts to influence the way that I view certain scenes there, too. I don't want it to, but it does. That's where ship has ruined the show for me. There are episodes I will never rewatch again, and unfortunately, that list just continues to grow. Pity.

[astronomicalchick]

God help us if Atlantis gets all shippy. If it does I will abandon the Stargate franchise completely. TPTB if they are wise will realise by promoting ship it will overwhelm all else and leave a show with a "where do we go now?" The fans of the old SG1 will have left in disgust and the shippers once the ship is exhausted will move on as they really don't care what the show was originally about. Where does that leave the TPTB - very little audience left. This is a warning to them.

I'm an Atlantis shipper (for Weir/Sheppard) but I DON'T NEED to see it on the screen. I do not. In fact, if it was done any way like it was done on SG-1 I would rather not... thank you very much,

My signature says it all, I'm happy to play in fanon and not see it in canon.. and if they'd left Sam and Jack like that, we'd all be happier.

[LoneStar1836]

Also, I need to remind myself every once in awhile that my anti-ship views are neither more worthy nor less worthy than someone else's pro-ship views. It helps me to remember that, especially when I find myself getting all disgruntled about it. They could have gone either way, they chose the way I didn't like, unfortunately.

Yeah, I agree and I guess that’s why I posted and said I don’t hold any animosity towards people who enjoy the S/J ship. I’ve been on a tear as of late in my bashing of S/J ship or I at least seem to mention it in every episode post lately. Wonder why? But I figured I’d point that out if any shippers venture in here so hopefully I don’t come across as hating everyone and everything associated with ship. So if people can get some enjoyment out of it, then go for it cause it was already a lost cause, and they couldn’t put the rabbit back in the hat and make it go away. It finally got its resolution, and I actually didn’t mind the subtle resolution in Threads (though I hated all the ship mess in it ). It was somewhat left up to your interpretation, and we didn’t have any stinking wedding as a worst-case scenario. That would have really livened up the anti-S/J ship thread. Now that absolute silliness that was in Moebius II was ridiculous and embarrassing to watch and uncalled for.

Hopefully, next season this thread will be dead and gone, and I will never have to post in it again. *crosses fingers and knocks on wood* Though I have a gut feeling we will get some kind of something in those two episodes RDA is slated to appear in even though AT will not be in them. Or later we’ll have to suffer through scenes where Daniel asks Sam how Jack is doing or something of the sort. I’m just not totally willing to believe the ship will be eliminated from our screens next season, S/J ship that is. So I’m not making a promise about never posting here again.

Maybe we should start putting our bets down now as to how much S/J ship will be in next season (cause I never see them ditching ship in general so we can’t bet on that). Is anyone brave enough to put down a bet on there being zero?

As long as tptb keep their shippy little mitts off of my Ben Browder. Right now he is the only reason I’m looking forward to Season 9.

[Easter Lily]

Maybe we should start putting our bets down now as to how much S/J ship will be in next season (cause I never see them ditching ship in general so we can’t bet on that). Is anyone brave enough to put down a bet on there being zero?

Not a betting person myself... but somehow I doubt it...

As long as tptb keep their shippy little mitts off of my Ben Browder. Right now he is the only reason I’m looking forward to Season 9.

Doesn't he look yummy in that uniform... suddenly I'm actually looking forward to Season 9. As long as they don't make him stud of the month or another Kirk wannabe...

[ShadowMaat]

I think it would be hard to have much ship without Jack, but I'm sure TPTB will find a billion ways to IMPLY things.

However, while there may be no overt S/J ship, there's still plenty of room for OTHER types of ship, especially with Ben Browder coming onboard. And, of course, the "temporary" return of Vala. Gods help us...

[Frostfox]

However, while there may be no overt S/J ship, there's still plenty of room for OTHER types of ship, especially with Ben Browder coming onboard. And, of course, the "temporary" return of Vala. Gods help us...

Bugger. Hadn't thought of that, Shadow, I was drawing a big sigh of relief that with RDA out of the picture, they couldn't muck about with the bloody ship any more and we might be able to get on with the important stuff.

Hadn't occured to me that they might start off some new shippy soap.

[keshou]

I'm an Atlantis shipper (for Weir/Sheppard) but I DON'T NEED to see it on the screen. I do not. In fact, if it was done any way like it was done on SG-1 I would rather not... thank you very much,

So far I think they've done fine with Atlantis. None of the pairings really grab me - being the picky shipper that I am - but there's no "fated to be together" couple anointed by TPTB and I think that's good. Maybe they've learned something from SG-1.

Back on-topic. I was okay with Threads. The S/J stuff was mostly subtle - except for the apparently REQUIRED awkward scene at Jack's. Moebius was blech in the S/J ship department. If I'd forgotten how little chemistry I see in the S/J pairing I was painfully reminded.

Hopefully, next season this thread will be dead and gone, and I will never have to post in it again. *crosses fingers and knocks on wood* Though I have a gut feeling we will get some kind of something in those two episodes RDA is slated to appear in even though AT will not be in them. Or later we’ll have to suffer through scenes where Daniel asks Sam how Jack is doing or something of the sort. I’m just not totally willing to believe the ship will be eliminated from our screens next season, S/J ship that is. So I’m not making a promise about never posting here again.

Nope - I'm afraid the thread may live on. Sam will probably be technically "available". All the better for planet of the week romances and flirting with McKay during crossovers to Atlantis. But I bet we'll still have the spectre of Jack - waiting in the wings. Little comments hinting that they're in contact but they can't be together until the latest scourge of the universe is dealt with. Oh well - at least there won't be any of those awkward scenes where Sam shows up at Jack's house.

Maybe we should start putting our bets down now as to how much S/J ship will be in next season (cause I never see them ditching ship in general so we can’t bet on that). Is anyone brave enough to put down a bet on there being zero?

I'd sooner bet the Astros are going to win the World Series.

As long as tptb keep their shippy little mitts off of my Ben Browder. Right now he is the only reason I’m looking forward to Season 9.

They better. Oh, horrors. I hope we don't have to start an Anti Sam/Cam ship thread.

[ShadowMaat]

Oh, horrors. I hope we don't have to start an Anti Sam/Cam ship thread.

Oh, no. It'd be far, FAR worse than that. It'd have to be an anti SCam thread! *vomits copiously* That whole, idiotic, repulsive, asinine, CHILDISHLY HORRIBLE OFFENSE TO HUMANITY FAD of combining of the names! *grinds teeth* Ye gods, I think I find that even worse than the ships, themselves. Ugh. And double ugh. But I think there's an anti ship thread where I can vent about that. But, UGH!

If S/J shippers had run around calling themselves Sackers or Jammies or something similarly asinine, I doubt that things would have gotten as out of control as they did. Either that or they'd be worse. I can envision fans keeling over due to toxic shock from the sheer, saccharine stupidity of it all...

[keshou]

What is the deal with the names smashed together. Whoever started that should be shot. At first I thought it was slightly amusing but egads, it's out of control. I sat staring at "Smifth" (or something like that) forever one night before I finally figured out it was Sam/Fifth.

Sam and Rodney could be "Ram" (oh, that's horrible)

We'll need an "anti names smashed together ship thread" before you know it.

To be on-topic. I'm Anti Sack and Jam