Jack O'Neill/ Sam Carter - Part of a team, not a ship

[Osiris-RA]

I know you weren't talking about me, it's cool.

And yeah, I wish they'd drop the silly ship. I can see they try to when ever it's Jack and Sam alone, ugh, how annoying. You'd think her leading the team would make them even further apart but noooo, it's like they keep pushing it on us and it's not fair.

[jckfan55]

Oh, maybe I guess. My theory on that scene in Gemini is that...

Spoiler:

Fifth was putting RC thru gradual training. First she balked at shooting her friends, but finally she could blow them away with no qualms. Then he moved her up to shooting and killing her commanding officer (and not incidentally the man she has strong feelings for). She had a tough time and that's the image she chose to show real Sam because she knew it would have an affect. RC was "playing" Sam the whole time.

I can buy that. Let's say we would have seen that process, but they ran out of time and had to make cuts. Yeah...that feels better.

[LoneStar1836]

Spoiler:

Maybe Replicarter does have the hots for Jack because she's in part a product of Fifth's sulky-teen perception of Sam.

Continuing with the Gemini discussion so

Spoiler:

Or there’s that. Does that mean I now have to be anti-RepliCarter/Jack ship as well as anti-S/J ship? Whatever the reasoning and motivation behind RC actions in that scene, it doesn’t negate the fact that it had ship undertones, and tptb cannot deny that fact. But I’ll just console myself with the fact that Sam was sucked into RC’s ploy because she took the “death” of Siler very personally. And the horror of seeing him die really elicits the sympathy.

[blueeyes]

So, I've been a little out of the loop for a while, working on grad degrees, and didn't watch Stargate first run eps. This means I just managed to finish seeing Season 7 this week. Why am I posting this here, you ask? Well ...

I have read a lot of constructive criticism of both the show as a whole and particularly the "shippy" stuff on this site and other places, and frankly, I was starting to think it was overkill. I wondered why people were complaining so much as what I had seen could still be ignored or explained away quite often. Heck, I was NEVER a shipper, but I could mostly ignore it. Then came Season 7.

Last Thursday night I finished watching Lost City Pt.2 and I was appalled. I had managed to ignore the implication that Jack had asked only for Carter in "Fragile Balance", I had chuckled at the cheesiness of the pseudo-shippy tripe in "Evolutions", I squirmed a bit at the blatant mischaracterizations of "Grace", then got poleaxed by the overt stupidity of "Heroes". But this ... well, this takes the cake.

This two part episode, with its randomly generated awkward moments of "tru wuv" finally made me reach a point where I could honestly state I didn't particularly like either Sam or Jack. I found the scene at Jack's home to be needlessly stilted, and the resulting attempt at wordless resolution in part two was just bad. If they were trying to somehow invoke the power of the Han/Leia scene in "The Empire Strikes Back," someone needs to send the writers a memo explaining that we had actually seen chemistry between Han and Leia. What we got instead was another rude interruption and curt dismissal by Jack, followed by more girlish fluttering by Sam in the final scenes of the ep.

I miss the friendship dynamic of the whole team. I miss a Jack who was funny, but not stupid. I miss plots that didn't need to keep winking and nodding at these poor star crossed lovers. And I miss a Sam who would be faithful to her boyfriend. (With whom she has eight million times more chemistry than Jack!)

Sorry for the long rant, sorry for trying so hard to mentally brush these concerns aside for so long, and sorry for repeating what I'm sure has been said before. I just felt the need to say it again, because the fact that this thread is now focussed on discussing the idiocy of shippy stuff in Season 8 has me depressed all ready. I think I might need to go watch DVDs of the early seasons.

[Jace021903]

Last Thursday night I finished watching Lost City Pt.2 and I was appalled. I had managed to ignore the implication that Jack had asked only for Carter in "Fragile Balance", I had chuckled at the cheesiness of the pseudo-shippy tripe in "Evolutions", I squirmed a bit at the blatant mischaracterizations of "Grace", then got poleaxed by the overt stupidity of "Heroes". But this ... well, this takes the cake.

This two part episode, with its randomly generated awkward moments of "tru wuv" finally made me reach a point where I could honestly state I didn't particularly like either Sam or Jack. I found the scene at Jack's home to be needlessly stilted, and the resulting attempt at wordless resolution in part two was just bad. If they were trying to somehow invoke the power of the Han/Leia scene in "The Empire Strikes Back," someone needs to send the writers a memo explaining that we had actually seen chemistry between Han and Leia. What we got instead was another rude interruption and curt dismissal by Jack, followed by more girlish fluttering by Sam in the final scenes of the ep.

I miss the friendship dynamic of the whole team. I miss a Jack who was funny, but not stupid. I miss plots that didn't need to keep winking and nodding at these poor star crossed lovers. And I miss a Sam who would be faithful to her boyfriend. (With whom she has eight million times more chemistry than Jack!)

I agree with a lot of your points. Season seven did a real hachet job on the character of Sam Carter--a character that I liked a lot. The way that they were having her act in some episodes was unbelievable to me. The woman is around 40--not a teenager.

Jack didn't fare a whole lot better. In my opinion, RDA's limited time was absolutely wasted on ackward shippy moments that made me cringe.

I never minded the shippiness when it was subtle, but there was nothing subtle about the last part of season 7--the shippy sledge hammer fell frequently



Spoilers for last half of season 7







The overt shippiness nearly killed my enjoyment of the show because TPTB tried so hard to show the "feelings" that they pulled Sam and Jack way out of character and made them self-centered and hormone-driven.

And they proved over and over again that Sam's feelings for Jack bring out the worst in her. "It doesn't matter if you are dying, Sir, I have to tell you about my feelings." Yuck. "Oh well, Cassie lost another mother--she's a tough kid, but I am a wreck because I saw you get shot, Sir." Ick.
I know it wasn't intended that way, but the above scenes really made me dislike Sam.

No one else seemed to matter--not Daniel or Cassie or Pete. And Sam wasn't crying for Janet in that scene with Jack hugging her.

And the lowest moment of Stargate in my opinion was having the President--the PRESIDENT, say, "Oh, they're entitled to their feelings."


On the bright side, I have seen up to "It's Good to Be King" in season 8 and so far I like Sam and Jack a whole lot more than in season 7.5. I am however a little leary of upcoming spoilers. I can only hope Jack and Sam get through it with their dignity in tact, but I am not really counting on it.

My goodness, I had a bit of a rant myself.

I do want to say that I have no problem with people shipping for Jack and Sam. Part of the fun of fandom is writing and reading fic and talking about your favorites. But in my opinion, the writers have not done a good job with it on the show.


Jace

[Osiris-RA]

I just had a crazy idea. What about a Sam/Daniel Ship?

[blueeyes]

You said it perfectly Jace. Subtle ship that can be "interpreted" by the viewers is great; forcing characters to act "out of character" is jarring and disruptive. I'm gonna start watching Season 8 next Thursday night, thanks for the words of hope.

[LoneStar1836]

Sorry for the long rant, sorry for trying so hard to mentally brush these concerns aside for so long, and sorry for repeating what I'm sure has been said before. I just felt the need to say it again, because the fact that this thread is now focussed on discussing the idiocy of shippy stuff in Season 8 has me depressed all ready. I think I might need to go watch DVDs of the early seasons.

Errr....Welcome to the club I guess. It may not be the most fun club, but at least we can commiserate together.

Season 7 has got to be the nail in the coffin that either sways you one way or another unless you are one of the fortunate ones that can still totally ignore it. Season 8 is not quite so blatant, imo. Yet. And has been relatively tame, I think, except for that whole thing in Gemini if you’ve read the spoilers, but I have a feeling it’s going to get all revved up in “Threads”. Blah. Guess we’ll know soon since the UK is about to get that episode. Though, I’ll still try to avoid reading any spoilers. Somehow.

You know. I have to give credit to “It’s Good To Be King” because there was potential there for ship, i.e. any time they are alone together I’ve come to expect the worst. (Course I’m sure the shippers saw it anyway since there was some good Carter/O’Neill screen time. No disrespect intended to y’all. ) But I actually didn’t have to wretch in agony over any goo-goo eyes at each other or any shippy music or any awkwardness, etc. etc.

I just had a crazy idea. What about a Sam/Daniel Ship?

Ummm.....................let me think..........................NO!

[Osiris-RA]

I think a Sam/Daniel would make a lot more sense. They have more in common and they're both scientific geeks.

But I'm not any kind of shipper at all so ... never mind.

[Easter Lily]

I think a Sam/Daniel would make a lot more sense. They have more in common and they're both scientific geeks.

But I'm not any kind of shipper at all so ... never mind.

I think the logic (for want of a better word) behind the Sam/Jack ship is that opposites attract and that sort of thing...

[ShadowMaat]

There is something of a Sam/Daniel ship thread here: http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=7349

If you don't like that, you can always start one of your own. But this thread is for anti Sam/Jack ship discussion, not for pairing up other characters.

There's also a general ship discussion thread here: http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=88

[keshou]

On paper Sam/Jack should kind of work - the whole opposites attract thing. His yin offsets her yang. It just doesn't for me. I also really don't like the idea of members of the team pairing up - which axes Sam/Daniel or Sam/Teal'c as well. Of course I don't see any sparky romantic chemistry with those pairings either.

And for blueeyes. S7 is where I kind of turned from a non-shipper into an anti-shipper. Especially after seeing some of the scenes and episodes you mentioned in your post.

But happily, I'm back in non-shipper land in S8. It's been much better and more subtle. You can see it if you want but it doesn't hit you in the face with awkward scenes if it's not your thing.

Of course we have a few key episodes to go so we'll see what happens. I'm having a hard time working up any strong feelings one way or the other, though. I'm hoping everyone will end up satisfied but I'm afraid there will be too much ship for the non-shippers to ignore and too little for the shippers to be happy. We'll see.

[blueeyes]

Yes Kes, that's it, I traversed the trail from "non-shipper" to "anti-shipper". Here's hoping Season 8 will let me slide back into MY happy place, the one without overt shippy stuff.

[Osiris-RA]

I think the "opposites attract" thing kind of cancels out on Sam and Jack. I just get too much warm fuzzy family feelings.

But, we are anti ship after all .. so ... so.

[ShadowMaat]

Yes Kes, that's it, I traversed the trail from "non-shipper" to "anti-shipper". Here's hoping Season 8 will let me slide back into MY happy place, the one without overt shippy stuff.

*pats blueeyes gently on the head* Yes, dear, just keep telling yourself that.