Jack O'Neill/ Sam Carter - Part of a team, not a ship

[Watters87]

Spoiler:

Hasn't it already been established by two AU's that ship is a direct treat to earth? Two AU's, two earth's ruined, two times Jack and Sam were involved. The writing's not on the wall, it's written in neon hot pink with dancing show girls surrounding it

I don't know if that necessarily needs to be in a spoiler, but since I was responding to a spoiler, better safe than sorry.

Or could it have been no Daniel in the SGA that led to both AU's being destroyed.

[Dani347]

Well, I do believe the no Daniel thing, but anything to discredit J/S ship is also fun.

[ShadowMaat]

Dunno why, but I have the strangest urge to bring this thread back to the foreground again.

Ya know, I was recently accused of being in favor of S9 because I'm an anti-shipper. Out of curiosity, are there any people who are looking forward to S9 solely or primarily because the lack of RDA and AT's 5 ep gap mean there's little chance for S/J ship?

The funny thing is, I'm NOT looking forward to S9, even if it means no ship. My objections have more to do with writing and with the mentalities behind the decisions rather than any specific plot elements (or lack thereof).

I still think that the concentration/reliance on ship is one of the elements that contributed to the "destruction" of the show. Maybe not the leading factor, but certainly up there on the list, mostly because it ties in to the primary problem of the writers churning out what I see as absolute crap.

I have a very bad feeling about what might happen by the end of the season. I'm fairly spoiler free, but I can still get an idea of what the writers will attempt to do and I sincerely hope I'm wrong because it's absolutely cringe-worthy.

I still say that if you have to resort to romance on a non-romance oriented show, then it's time to call it quits.

[Jonisa]

Ya know, I was recently accused of being in favor of S9 because I'm an anti-shipper. Out of curiosity, are there any people who are looking forward to S9 solely or primarily because the lack of RDA and AT's 5 ep gap mean there's little chance for S/J ship?

Heh. Nope.

I'm looking forward to S9, but my primary reasons are:

1. I'm hoping for better stories because they won't have to write around RDA's absences any longer. (Perhaps a vain hope, but a hope nonetheless. )

2. My favorite character, Daniel, will still be there, and I am curious to find out where his character is headed.

3. Two of my favorite actors, Ben Browder and Claudia Black, will be part of Season 9, and I want to see how they are written into the Stargate mythology. (Yes, I'm a Scaper, why do you ask? )

4. I'm interested in seeing how this will all pan out, postive or negative.

Yes I have reservations and concerns, but I'm not going to let that overshadow the legitimate interest I have in Season 9. The fact that there may be little or no S/J ship is merely a bonus for me, definitely not the primary reason I'll be tuning in. I can't imagine wanting to watch a show for what I'm not going to see. Makes no sense to me.

[clwaurie]

I have no interest in seeing a Sam and Jack relationship develop, it in no way would add to the quality of the show, if I wanted to watch a soap I would watch crappy Eastenders.

(Oh for those of you not from the UK Eastenders is an over the top soap opera set in the east end of London)

[Easter Lily]

Since you took the trouble to revive this thread, Shadow, I thought I'd swing around and put in my two cents.
I'm not anti-ship by any stretch of the imagination but I do detest having romance foisted on me when there is no prior indication of any chemistry between the respective characters. It's like trying to matchmake two people that you've grown up with out of a misguided feeling that they wll never find someone on their own. Admittedly I feel protective of my favourite characters and often feel that romance can often dim their personalities, which I feel this S/J ship has done. Furthermore, I have never seen how this romance fits into the overall story... it just seems like extraneous baggage to me.
I never watch sci-fi shows for romance and become a very reluctant spectator when main characters become romantically involved with each other after being so palsywalsy. I cringe, squirm and wish that I'm somewhere else. I feel that it takes away from the overall ethos of the show and eventually degenerates into a soap opera. I haven't worked out if it is the writing or just that my expectations have been undermined.
I'd rather the writers just leave the whole thing alone and get on with strengthening S9's overall storyline. I'm keeping an open mind about S9 but the writers will have to work very hard to prove that they can sustain the Ancient arc between two shows.

[LoneStar1836]

1. I'm hoping for better stories because they won't have to write around RDA's absences any longer. (Perhaps a vain hope, but a hope nonetheless. )

That’s actually the main reason I am looking forward to S9. At least I’m not alone. The hope may be in vain that things will improve in the writing department with that obstacle (writing and filming around RDA’s limited schedule) being gone, but one can always hope. Yes, I like Jack and the show won’t be the same without him, but cramming him into an episode for the sake of having him there was something I found undesirable. Hopefully they can go back to a normal shooting schedule of not having to film multiple shows at one time.

So no I’m not all giddy about season 9 because there is no possibility of S/J ship. I can live with the ship because honestly does anyone really believe S9 won’t have ship of some kind in it. I may not like it, but there are worse reasons to not watch the show.

The fact that there may be little or no S/J ship is merely a bonus for me, definitely not the primary reason I'll be tuning in.

Same here.

[the_fours]

i absolutelly hate the ship, this i have stated many times before on the forum, but the reality is they opened this can of worms up and so now it does need to get tied up once and for all.

That is tied up to a large rock and droped to the bottom of the sea.

[keshou]

Ya know, I was recently accused of being in favor of S9 because I'm an anti-shipper. Out of curiosity, are there any people who are looking forward to S9 solely or primarily because the lack of RDA and AT's 5 ep gap mean there's little chance for S/J ship?

My response is basically the same as Jonisa's. We must be part of a hive-mind collective.

I'm both pro and anti S9. Anti because I'm very leery of the writing and storytelling capabilities coming out of Bridge Studios right now.

Pro because I LIKE the actors they're adding to the cast (I'm a Scaper too!) and I like the potential for some new dynamics

Pro because I'm relieved they're bringing in a couple of writers who might have some exciting ideas

Pro because I also hope RDA's participation (if any) won't be the kind that will cause the production gymnastics they've been performing the last couple of seasons.

Pro because I have hopes that the budget problems of the last couple of seasons may be alleviated somewhat in S9

I don't care about the Sam and Jack romance. It was a nice little UST thing at first that has developed into this big STORYLINE. I'm not sure the writers ever intended that to happen but they did it anyway. I think it's been badly written - especially in the last couple of seasons - and I think Sam and Jack in romance mode have the chemistry of a couple of artichokes.

My personal opinion is that it's time for it to be resolved - especially with RDA probably gone most of S9. I actually hope it's resolved in a way that's satisfying to the shippers at this point because maybe, for a few months, at least one group in fandom will be happy. I'm concerned however that some of the spoilers I've heard make it sound like no one is going to be happy.

For me it's a positive that the S/J ship may not be such an ISSUE in S9, but it's certainly not the primary reason I'm optimistic about S9. I wasn't pro S9 AT ALL until they announced Ben Browder's addition to the cast.

I'm not against ship, per se, on a scifi show. If it's done well it can help flesh out characters and develop them in ways that add to the overall story, not detract from it. S/J never used to bother me, in spite of the fact I don't see the chemistry. But now it's one of the storylines I dislike the most.

[Madeleine]

What Jonisa said.

[astronomicalchick]

Dunno why, but I have the strangest urge to bring this thread back to the foreground again.

Ya know, I was recently accused of being in favor of S9 because I'm an anti-shipper. Out of curiosity, are there any people who are looking forward to S9 solely or primarily because the lack of RDA and AT's 5 ep gap mean there's little chance for S/J ship?

Eh? *scratches head as tries to figure out logic behind that one and gives in* I'm anti-S9 and I'm a shipper, sorta *mumbles less and less*. I don't want S9 cos I think the quality of the show has gone down and I worry about them screwing up Atlantis. I am not going to cry if Sam and Jack don't get together, but I won't cry if they will either. In fact, I'll probably be asleep or counting the minutes to Atlantis. I'm annoyed that they're airing 90 mins of Threads cos it means no Atlantis that week.

The funny thing is, I'm NOT looking forward to S9, even if it means no ship. My objections have more to do with writing and with the mentalities behind the decisions rather than any specific plot elements (or lack thereof).

Yep, and me. Although I quite like the Danny-whore sub-plot that's about at the moment. Ie all these chicks smouldering at him and he looking bemused. Oops wrong thread.

[astronomicalchick]

I don't care about the Sam and Jack romance. It was a nice little UST thing at first that has developed into this big STORYLINE. I'm not sure the writers ever intended that to happen but they did it anyway. I think it's been badly written - especially in the last couple of seasons - and I think Sam and Jack in romance mode have the chemistry of a couple of artichokes.

You see, this is how it should be kept, nice and ambigious and in the background. I ship for Sheppard and Weir, but if the PTB foisted it into the foreground and did what they did to Sam/Jack to it, it'd be a car crash. Most W/S shippers love playing with the dynamic and chemistry THEY see and so far there have been no ship wars in Atlantis. Luckily for us, PTB are more interested in Sheppard and Teyla so they can screw that up happily and the W/S can still play.

If S/J had been kept to this, 1. shippers wouldn't now feel frustrated and 2. there wouldn't be these soapy storylines now floating around taking away from the ethos and quality of the show.

[Hathor999]

Heh. Nope.

I'm looking forward to S9, but my primary reasons are:

1. I'm hoping for better stories because they won't have to write around RDA's absences any longer. (Perhaps a vain hope, but a hope nonetheless. )

I just don´t accept this line of thinking! RDA had replaced (with exception of only a handfull episodes as "New Order", "Zero Hour" and "Good to be King") mostly General Hammond. He was not strongly involved with episodes as "Covenant" or "Afinity" or "Prometheus Unbound". There was absolutly no reason why (other than because the writers wanted it) this episodes were no team episodes with Daniel, Teal, and Sam going through the gate!
I would really lile to hear why do you think that RDA´s absence had an influence on the part of the episodes he wasn´t in ? Because there is IMO no reason why there must be so much (bad) earth bound trust episodes in season 8! I understand that because of RDA´s reduced schedule he mostly appears in SGC scenes but that don´t mean that the rest of the episode must play on earth or on the Prometheus. That makes no sense!

3. Two of my favorite actors, Ben Browder and Claudia Black, will be part of Season 9, and I want to see how they are written into the Stargate mythology. (Yes, I'm a Scaper, why do you ask? )

I´m not an Sam and Jack shipper. And I found many of the scenes which were meant to be shippy more than a little bit annoying...but it still were only
little hints here and there. Very often done much to heavy handed but (with exception of season 7) only a subtext.
But in "Prometheus Unbound" were the sexual innuendo front and center of the episode. This episode had like it seemed no other purpose than that.
What´s IMO absolutly wrong for Stargate.
And as non-shipper I hate it to get the sex forced down my throat.
I DON´T LIKE the Sam/Jack ship but I HATE the thought that Vala will be back in season nine and we will have more episodes like "PU" which are only a mix of dumb jokes, slapstick violence and sex.

From "As the gate turns" to an only slightly toned down "Tripping the rift" imitation with real actors... For me is that not exactly an improvement!

And another point is IMO interesting: Ben Bowder was meant to play Pete...I wouldn´t be to surprised if we would get in season 9 not only Daniel/Vala ship in spades but ship between Sam and BB´s colonel, too...I think after watching so many SG 1 episodes I know which way the brains of the Stargate writers are working: Female lead and male lead (this time they are even more or lesser the same age) = shippyness!
And that is both nothing I´m looking forward, too...

[Jonisa]

I just don´t accept this line of thinking! I would really lile to hear why do you think that RDA´s absence had an influence on the part of the episodes he wasn´t in ? Because there is IMO no reason why there must be so much (bad) earth bound trust episodes in season 8! I understand that because of RDA´s reduced schedule he mostly appears in SGC scenes but that don´t mean that the rest of the episode must play on earth or on the Prometheus. That makes no sense!

I'm sorry you don't accept my line of thinking, but it is the way I think nonetheless.

I don't think I said that RDA's absence had an influence on those episodes that he wasn't in. Some episodes are just below standard, whether RDA is involved or not. However, in general I have felt there have been quite a few episodes where it seemed glaringly obvious to me that the writers have been desperately trying to find ways to keep Jack there, and it showed. It was worse (IMO) in Season 7 than it has been this year, but I do think the abundance of earth-based stories this year is partly due to trying to keep Jack as involved as possible. Which is completely understandable, but nonetheless can result in some rather clunky plots. And it is, of course, MHO. I'm well aware not everyone shares it.

But in "Prometheus Unbound" were the sexual innuendo front and center of the episode. This episode had like it seemed no other purpose than that.And as non-shipper I hate it to get the sex forced down my throat. I DON´T LIKE the Sam/Jack ship but I HATE the thought that Vala will be back in season nine and we will have more episodes like "PU" which are only a mix of dumb jokes, slapstick violence and sex.

Haven't seen Prometheus Unbound, so I can't comment on the episode. From what I understand it's a "love it or hate it" ep and I'm not sure in which camp I'll fall. That doesn't change the fact that Ben Browder and Claudia Black are two of my favorite actors and that I look forward to seeing them. It sounds like Vala has been written quite broadly, but it is possible that other facets of her personality might be revealed as we get to know her. We don't know that every episode with her in it will be full of slapstick violence and sex. In fact, I highly doubt it, as I doubt the writers would devote five episodes to that kind of story.

And another point is IMO interesting: Ben Bowder was meant to play Pete...I wouldn´t be to surprised if we would get in season 9 not only Daniel/Vala ship in spades but ship between Sam and BB´s colonel, too.

Just because Ben was originally asked to play Pete doesn't necessarily mean they'll have ship between Sam and his character, does it? I don't see the connection. It's possible, and I agree with you that I hope they don't go there. I know waaaayyyyy more than I ever wanted to know about Sam's lovelife. About Daniel/Vala...I've got nothing. I'm not sure how I feel about that yet. I'll wait until I see it.

I agree with you too in that I dislike the S/J ship (hence the fact that I'm posting in this thread), and that it has been handled poorly. Ship in general, I don't have a problem with, if it's well done. I don't think it's an easy thing to write, and I haven't been impressed with how the writers have handled ship in Stargate, so I hope they stay away from it. Not holding my breath on that one though.

I do understand that a lot of people really hate the thought of a Stargate without Jack. It does feel wrong somehow, but it doesn't change the fact that (for me), there are things to look forward to next year.

[jckfan55]

For those of us who have just seen Gemini
Spoiler

Spoiler:

Did anyone have a problem with Rep. Carter seeming to have no problem shooting Daniel, but major trouble with Jack? I thought that was kind of playing to the "shippers."