Jack O'Neill/ Sam Carter - Part of a team, not a ship

[ShadowMaat]

Stick around, T-bone, my surliness is contagious. I'll turn you into a rampant show-criticizing PTP-questioning complainer by the end of S8! Muahahaha...

[Gategrrl]

[QUOTE=Madeleine_W]Hey, given that it's the ol' Sholvah posting there, that post is a Stout Vindication of Anti-Shipness. Teal'c *never* criticises the show. If he were to be any more critical of S/J than he just was, then his head would probably fall off
QUOTE]

That was the Shol'vah? Eeep!

Didn't realize that! All these modified name changes, etc.

Hey Shol'vah.

[SallyK]

I don't usually say a lot in this thread, as so many people manage to express far more eloquently than I can what I am thinking but I do feel I should stand up to be counted at least once.

I think the way that Jack and Sam's relationship has been handled in Season 7 is the thing that has done most damage to the show. It has driven away a significant number of viewers and taken more from being reasonably happy with the show, to being unsure whether they will watch future seasons. It is by no means the only thing wrong with the show, but by destroying the character of one of the team and alienating another from his friends, it has affected not only specific episodes but the whole back history of the show. It isn't any of the team's fault if the spaceship they are attacking looks like something out of Star Wars but if Sam is shown as a selfish girl who is a disgrace to her uniform, then that has to affect how she is seen in past seasons, even though at the time she appeared to be someone we could respect and admire.

That is quite apart from the fundamental problems with a relationship between them, the complete lack of chemistry and the trying to have a romance with someone whose name is Sir.

So I definitely think I belong in this thread.

SallyK

[darklilac]

I can't stand this Sam anymore, this ship is revolting, and it's getting worse.




In that season 8 episode Affinity she will question her relationship with Pete(guess why, so she could cry her heart out on daddy/general shoulder) and she will spend her time going aroud the base talking with her teammates about babies and bad Pete that is standing between her and her love(the general).

I wonder what would happen in real life if a colonel of the USAF did spend her time pining and whining over a General of the USAF, even talking with him about homelife and diapers.

Can you figure Carter going to Hammond and discussing pregnancy?

What did they do to this show?

[ShadowMaat]

In that season 8 episode Affinity...

Shhh.... I'm trying to ignore that ep. The less I know about it, the happier my own personal little Sam/Pete shippy universe will be.

Also- might wanna add actual spoiler warnings instead of just blank space so people know you're talking about an upcoming ep (and which one).

[Gategrrl]

You know, sometimes I WISH I could be J&S shipper, if only that it would help me not think of Sam's presence in s7 as excerable now. Yeah, that's how I'm starting to feel about the way she's been pushed forward beyond where *I* think her character should be. And Jack? He's a joke of what he was.

And if I could be a J&S shipper, I would agree that these two "officers" belong together now. Before, when they were flirty and it was cute to see that, and I could pass it off as a kind of playful Mentor/Subordinate kind of frission, and weren't going goo-goo-eyed over each other, I liked them.

Now, with the ship (among other things), I don't like either of them, much.

Yeah, Sam and Jack deserve each other now; if they did get together, it would be blissful, because then they would be OFF THE SHOW.

Whoa. A little overdone there. But I'd much rather have the enjoyable characters that I used to like, sans J&S ship, back rather than these two pod people.

[Judy1393]

I know that this is the thread where I belong.

When D&C aired, I was going what the.....? I never saw any chemistry between Sam and Jack. So tptb were telling me that it 'had' been there but it was going to be left in that room. I thought fine, good, it was totally inappropriate and would have been a court-martial offense anyway, so if it existed - then I was glad they were putting a stop to it.

But they lied, soon they were putting her everywhere and Jack and Daniel were hardly the friends that I’d seen since the movie. In my opinion they had to push Daniel out of the scene because there was way more friendship chemistry between the two men than anything at all between Jack and Sam.

Along comes ‘Grace’ and now I see a pathetic 40ish year old woman with a school-girl crush on her CO. Where is the Carter from the first 3 years? She was a woman that earned her way in the military, earned her PhD in Astrophysics; she earned the right to be respected for her accomplishments.

Now we have an immature girly girl who would sacrifice all that she has worked for if only her ‘tru luv’ Jack would ask her. She deserts her position in the heat of battle (Heroes) to run to his side when she wasn’t even the closest one to him. Can I say court-martial with at least a dishonorable discharge? Then tptb didn’t even end it with ‘Grace’, now she is doing Pete but still with such angst over Jack in the ‘Lost City’. Just how sick is she? As far as I’m concerned, she goes to prison or a mental hospital but she doesn’t get to remain at the SGC.

I dropped Showtime at the beginning of S5 because I was sick of the way tptb were pushing Sam to the front, Daniel and Teal'c to hold up the walls. I wasn’t going to pay to see them destroy Stargate. I only came back because I had heard that SCI-Fi was going to show it and that Daniel was going to be back and they were going to return to the roots back at the beginning. What a lie.

I will not watch anymore of the many loves of Sammykins, SuperSam or the lovegate. I will tape and wipe out any episodes that are more Sam than Daniel or Teal’c and there’s no point in wishing for more RDA without Sam. I won’t be watching the reruns of basically most of the second half of S7 plus Space Race and Avenger 2.0.

I could go on and on, but having to face that she has ruined Stargate for me, well I just don’t even want to she her face anymore, let alone think about her.

[Dani347]

Just how sick is she?

careful, tptb might really try to answer that.

Ship should stay in the eyes of the beholders. I've never seen any shippers having a problem with reading subtext into any pairing, no matter how little anyone else sees it, so why try to make it canon? Obviously, these writers can't do it. Not for J/S. Not without turning Sam into a girly girl. Or Jack into a joke (although, I don't know if ship was entirely responsible for that).

[Webbgirl]

Figures my first post here would be in this thread.

I just truly wish that TPTB could take a course on how to do subtext.

[ShadowMaat]

At this point, I think anything TPTB do in regards to ship is going to be wrong. They've made it SO blatant SO much that at this point, just having Sam look at Jack is going to feel wrong. They can't go back from where they've taken things... and I don't think they have any intention of doing that. They're going to bull ahead with this travesty and all who oppose will be crushed beneath their heels.

[Webbgirl]

At this point, I think anything TPTB do in regards to ship is going to be wrong. They've made it SO blatant SO much that at this point, just having Sam look at Jack is going to feel wrong. They can't go back from where they've taken things... and I don't think they have any intention of doing that. They're going to bull ahead with this travesty and all who oppose will be crushed beneath their heels.

Unfortunately, I agree with you. Even if TPTB had a grand epiphany at this point, I believe it's too late. What used to be innocent exchanges between Jack and Sam would all now be suspect. That has always been one of my major gripes about Ship on the show. Once you've crossed that line, there's really no going back.

[Gategrrl]

Once you've crossed that line, there's really no going back.

I have to ask, tho. Has Jack actually crossed that line? I guess you could say he did in ...darn, what was that ep? Oh yeah, the one where he went to talk to Sam about reluctantly having to go rescue that darned Daniel again from some nasty nasty kidnapper who might have the item they really need more than Sam needs to go on that expedition with her father, Bra'tac and Teal'c? Oh, right. Evolution part 2. Bleh.

So, would you say Jack has crossed that line?

Just askin'.

[Webbgirl]

I have to ask, tho. Has Jack actually crossed that line? I guess you could say he did in ...darn, what was that ep? Oh yeah, the one where he went to talk to Sam about reluctantly having to go rescue that darned Daniel again from some nasty nasty kidnapper who might have the item they really need more than Sam needs to go on that expedition with her father, Bra'tac and Teal'c? Oh, right. Evolution part 2. Bleh.

So, would you say Jack has crossed that line?

Just askin'.

I'm with you. I see it as being heavily on Sam's side. I think the writers have pushed it too far though. They've created situations where every look that Sam gives Jack, or even formerly benign statements will be analyzed to death as to their shipiness.

BTW...Why aren't you reading??? Hmmm.????

[ShadowMaat]

So, would you say Jack has crossed that line?

Jack? Evince emotion?! Pfft! Not likely. He's cold, he's crude, he's mean, he's callous and disinterested, but other than a few lapses back into humanity, there hasn't been much of the real Jack I remember in quite a while now, certainly not the one who gives a rat's arse about anyone, be it in a shippy or platonic way... or even as the generic concern of one human being to another.

No, most of it has been TPTB tearing down everything strong and wonderful about Sam and replacing her with Kleenex Girl.

[darklilac]

TPTB have no intention to slow down the ship.
There were spoilers about huge shippy scenes at least a year ago, season 7 was supposed to be the last season and they were planning a huge shippy finale.
And that's says all about season 8.
And Mrs. Tapping said that Sam and Jack will end the series going to the cabin and fishing.
Because of course the show is now all about them, so in the end Daniel and Teal'c will just fade away.