Tok'ra Thunk/Discussion/Appreciation thread

[SF_and_Coffee]

Another empty post! Anyone knows why these happens?

Anyway, I was just wishing you all a belated Happy New Year!

Go here and read forward to see what's going on with the "Post-Eating Monster" that's been plaguing the site. The mods also give tips on how to retrieve what you tried to post.

The "Ask The Moderators" thread is always a good place to get answers to questions like this one.

[Reseph(Shed)]

^^^I usually just edit my posts and cut and paste just in case the monster strikes. It's worked most times so far.

[ChulaksPrincess]

In the SG1 episode Abyss, when the SGC threatened to hold Councilor Thoran until he sent a message to the other Tok'ra to ask for the mission reports, I did not agree with that course of action. As Thoran said, it threatened the alliance between Earth and the Tok'ra. I am aware that Colonel O'Neill's life was at stake, but surely there had to be a better way to persuade the Tok'ra to let the SGC view the mission reports than sucha drastic action.

[Reseph(Shed)]

In the SG1 episode Abyss, when the SGC threatened to hold Councilor Thoran until he sent a message to the other Tok'ra to ask for the mission reports, I did not agree with that course of action. As Thoran said, it threatened the alliance between Earth and the Tok'ra. I am aware that Colonel O'Neill's life was at stake, but surely there had to be a better way to persuade the Tok'ra to let the SGC view the mission reports than sucha drastic action.

I agree. I understand that they didn't want to leave him behind, but it was kind of silly no matter who Jack was for them to potentially ruin an alliance that benefited the survival of the planet Earth to save O'Neill. But to be fair the Tok'ra didn't seem to care too much that O'Neill went missing (and Kanan was responsible for this) considering (if I'm remembering the sequence of events right) O'Neill chose to accept Kanan as a symbiote (something they had to convince him to do) to save his life. Things seemed a bit messy on both sides already and they were under the impression that Kanan wouldn't run off to save anyone as well.

[Skadi]

I agree. I understand that they didn't want to leave him behind, but it was kind of silly no matter who Jack was for them to potentially ruin an alliance that benefited the survival of the planet Earth to save O'Neill. But to be fair the Tok'ra didn't seem to care too much that O'Neill went missing (and Kanan was responsible for this) considering (if I'm remembering the sequence of events right) O'Neill chose to accept Kanan as a symbiote (something they had to convince him to do) to save his life. Things seemed a bit messy on both sides already and they were under the impression that Kanan wouldn't run off to save anyone as well.

Yes, there were errors on both sides, but I think most of the blame is to be out on the Tau'ri. Thoran was not being antagonistic until after the Tau'ri had blamed the Tok'ra and Kanan (who Thoran considered a very good friend and brother) for various misdeeds, and more or less directly called Kanan a Goa'uld. That is something the Tok'ra have never reacted well to. He then said he would probably have to accept that Kanan was gone - so he is probably mourning a good friend. That would affect his tolerance towards Tau'ri insults.

Even after that, Thoran offered to contact a couple Tok'ra operatives undercover and get them to try and look for clues to where Kanan might have gone. The Tau'ri continued being insulting and unfriendly in their demands and behaviour. Teal'c threatened Thoran with bodily harm, and they stopped him from leaving. Hammond came and said it was with his blessing.

The Tau'ri risked the Tok'ra-Tau'ri alliance and treated an ally who came to them, who had helped them when O'Neill was dying, an ally who has time and time again brought intel, tech, and help to the Tau'ri - treated that ally as if they were untrustworthy criminals, and insulted them and threatened them.

Yes, the Tok'ra have become less friendly towards the Tau'ri over the years, but the Tau'ri has become more and more disrespectful and demanded completely unrealistic things. No organisation that works with secret intelligence would ever give full disclosure of everything they do, especially not to an ally that has been infiltrated by the NID etc. from time to time.

I would not have been so patient with the Tau'ri, and I am actually surprised the Tok'ra keeps being so helpful, but I guess they have long experience in trying to help people who hate and despise them anyway.

Sorry, but this is one of the episodes I hate the most of the show, for the way the Tok'ra are treated.

[SF_and_Coffee]

Life and my Muse don't always cooperate. But sometimes they do, and surprise me.

The latest chapter of All That We Leave Behind, "Friendship" has been published.

On my site
On AO3
On Symbiotica
On FF.net

Enjoy!

[Aeron]

I thought I was the only Tok'ra fangirl, or the only obsessed one anyway. I'm glad to see that my beliefs are the opposite!

I pretty much love all the Tok'ra, but Martouf/Lantash especially, as is expected. But Jacob/Selmak is a close second. But where I usually identify the symbiote as the same sex as the host, with Jacob/Selmak, I still see Selmak as female. I'm not sure why, as I know that symbiotes are gender neutral. It could be Selmak's previous host, but I saw her as a 'she' without that.

Anyway. I need to write some Tok'ra fic. It gives me lots of femslashy/slashy freedom.

[SF_and_Coffee]

I thought I was the only Tok'ra fangirl, or the only obsessed one anyway. I'm glad to see that my beliefs are the opposite!

I pretty much love all the Tok'ra, but Martouf/Lantash especially, as is expected. But Jacob/Selmak is a close second. But where I usually identify the symbiote as the same sex as the host, with Jacob/Selmak, I still see Selmak as female. I'm not sure why, as I know that symbiotes are gender neutral. It could be Selmak's previous host, but I saw her as a 'she' without that.

Anyway. I need to write some Tok'ra fic. It gives me lots of femslashy/slashy freedom.

Have you visited the Tok'ra fandom nirvana that is Symbiotica yet?

[SF_and_Coffee]

The new chapter of All That We Leave Behind is up. Called "Prodigal", it should be an especial treat for fans of the Tok'ra.

On my site

On AO3

On Symbiotica

On FF.net

[Reseph(Shed)]

Sorry, but this is one of the episodes I hate the most of the show, for the way the Tok'ra are treated.

I kind of agree with you. It seemed like from here on they couldn't make the Tok'ra (I hope I'm explaining this right) more sympathetic to humans and they felt they had to keep them one step over the humans (and also give Jack a reason not to trust them, but then again it doesn't seem like Jack ever truly liked the Tok'ra anyway. He just seemed to cooperate for the most part) by having them be secretive and like those aliens that you just had to work with but didn't really like to. I wish they would have done it better, and I think that if Earth really did offer up more hosts that were sick or dying like Daniel suggested then maybe there would have been a better relationship between the humans and the tok'ra.

[Hathor_girl]

I thought I was the only Tok'ra fangirl, or the only obsessed one anyway. I'm glad to see that my beliefs are the opposite!

I pretty much love all the Tok'ra, but Martouf/Lantash especially, as is expected. But Jacob/Selmak is a close second. But where I usually identify the symbiote as the same sex as the host, with Jacob/Selmak, I still see Selmak as female. I'm not sure why, as I know that symbiotes are gender neutral. It could be Selmak's previous host, but I saw her as a 'she' without that.

Anyway. I need to write some Tok'ra fic. It gives me lots of femslashy/slashy freedom.

Welcome! You're by no means the only Tok'ra fan! We're quite a lot, even if we've been kind of silent lately I agree with you on Martouf/Lantash - I love him/them most as well. And I also consider Selmak female, like you do. I think the Tok'ra fans are about 50/50 on that one

I second SF_and_Coffee's suggestion of going to Symbiotica (http://tokra.fandomnet.com) for Tok'ra fic - there are hundreds of Tok'ra fic there! Though there is very little slash/femslash - I think Wolfy is the only one that writes that: http://tokra.fandomnet.com/viewuser.php?uid=60 (perhaps also Lizardbeth - this is the link to the Stargate fic in her Livejournal: http://lizardbeth-j.livejournal.com/154549.html#cutid1 There is at least one Delek/Malek, that I know of).

There are also a yahoo mailinglist: Tokra-resistance: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tokra-resistance/ (and http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SamandMartouf/ if you like Sam/Martouf/Lantash)

as well as Livejournal communities: http://tokrafans.livejournal.com (and http://samandmartouf.livejournal.com)

[Hathor_girl]

People on the tokra-resistance yahoo-list are discussing these questions, and I thought it would be funny to repost them here and see if people here have opinions?

A few questions pertaining to the Symbiote/Host relationships with their mates. The questions came up in regards to the entry into the equation of a new host. Here are the questions we were mulling over. Anyone and everyone sound off and give your opinions, ideas, more questions, however you feel about it.

How do the mates perceive their bondmate's new host?

What causes them to come to love them? (the new host)

Is it similar to the host/symbiote where the host takes on the emotions of the symbiote, as well as developing feelings and emotions of their own toward them?

Do they at first love the new host because they are now a part of the symbiote that they love?

Do they, too, then develop feelings and emotions over time that pertain to the new host as an individual?

Looking forward to hearing other's ideas and opinions...

[SF_and_Coffee]

Great questions, and I'll probably take a shot at articulating my own thoughts on the matter this weekend. In the meantime -- and in an odd sort of synchronicity -- I just finished writing the newest chapter of ATWLB late last night, in which the subject of symbiote and host relationships with mates is mentioned. Watch for it to go up online in the usual places (see sig) in a few hours, once I get off work and can actually upload it to the web.

[Hathor_girl]

New Tok'ra fic:

Resulting Ripples by Roeskva
Martouf/Lantash return from visiting an alternate reality, and what they experienced there cause them to make a decision about their future. Tag to Ripple Effect. Sam/Martouf/Lantash, past Sam/Jack.
Rating : PG-13
Category: Romance/Adventure

Chapter 1-4 have been posted, but the fic is in progress.

[SF_and_Coffee]

My thoughts on the questions that Hathor_Girl posted upthread:

A few questions pertaining to the Symbiote/Host relationships with their mates. The questions came up in regards to the entry into the equation of a new host. Here are the questions we were mulling over. Anyone and everyone sound off and give your opinions, ideas, more questions, however you feel about it.

How do the mates perceive their bondmate's new host?
My guess would be that the symbiote whose mate has acquired a new host would probably have a bit of an adjustment to make, but perhaps not quite as much as the surviving host. I'm just guessing, but because the host-to-host interaction is more directly physical, that would probably affect things. Still, assuming that the symbiote who took a new host had the chance to choose a host who was very compatible, more than likely the new host would have at least some characteristics of temperament and personality in common with the former host, and this too might ease the transition slightly. Also, one would hope that the new host had been informed and prepared for the fact that the symbiote was involved in a romantic relationship and that the new host would naturally be expected to partake.

What causes them to come to love them? (the new host)
I certainly hope this would always happen, in any case. I imagine a combination of having been forewarned, and of the symbiote's own emotions sort of "rubbing off" on the new host would help the new host come to love his or her symbiote's mate (well, really, mates, as of course that mate is also a blended pair). As for the pair whose host hasn't changed, I would imagine that they would come to love the new host in part because their mate had chosen said host and they appreciate their mate's taste. (Also perhaps for the symbiote's sake as well, since one would at least hope that a symbiote loves or comes to love his or her host, and vice-versa. Though there may well be cases where it isn't necessarily that way, or at least not at first.)

Is it similar to the host/symbiote where the host takes on the emotions of the symbiote, as well as developing feelings and emotions of their own toward them?
See above.

Do they at first love the new host because they are now a part of the symbiote that they love?
At least initially, that might be the reason. Once they get to know the knew host personally, they might also come to love that person for his or her own sake.

Do they, too, then develop feelings and emotions over time that pertain to the new host as an individual?
See above.