Tok'ra Thunk/Discussion/Appreciation thread

[SamMartouf4ever]

Btw. why is Egeria not in the poll above? Is she under 'other Tok'ra not named'?

[nebulan]

As a Sam/Jack shipper, I liked Pete, I thought he was cute and added angst to S/J. I did NOT like Martouf and Narim as her little puppy dogs, as characters, I did like them, but not as one of Sam's many puppy dogs (she also had her fair share of SGC boys lusting after her, it's not the boys that I hated, it the way the writers wrote all men's uncontrollable desire to fall head over heals for her that I hated).

I think Sam was touched by Martouf and Lantash's feelings tho, she sure seemed to care more for Martouf than Lantash in Summit. And I agree with Petra, the writers sometimes left some things to be desired in writing romance story lines

Majority is the wrong word. Unfortunately the vocal minority comes off at the majority. I'm pretty sure that most people don't get so wrapped up about their ship as to go around hating all rivals, throwing fits about fandoms. Ok, I guess all of us might get too emotional at times, espcially when we were younger. Long story short: please don't hate all us Sam/Jack shippers just because some opinionated ones were mean to you. We like you! Can we make it up to you? I respect your ships. I, myself, am a big multishipper but I confess I like Sam/Lantash better than Sam/Martouf.

My guilty pleasure Sam ship: Sam/Teal'c! (I even made a vid...)

@Maneth: Welcome! I agree, I felt like Elliot/Lantash added some great insight into Lantash's character...

I always assumed Tok'ra culture would be a great melting pot (of host cultures + the culture Egeria started), hense why they would have a great variety in clothing in some episodes (while producing the desert and leather outfits in bulk).

@Mushroom: I LOVED JR Borne in that episode! He's so pretty tho I wish he'd play a good guy!

I've always run with the idea that say that hosts and symbionts drastically influence each other when they blend. Lantash has his own personality, but to see what was not influenced by Martouf it was nice to seem him with a new host, to see what that was like, tho sad to see Martouf killed

As far as killing characters off, I always hate it when they do that, even if they are a rival for my OTP (starts pondering how to kill off Keller... nah, she just needs to realize that runner guy is the man for her...)

Yeah, I think we asked about why Egeria was missing before... weird huh?

[Skadi]

Don't worry, nebulan - I'm sure we all know that the few mean S/J shippers some of us have encountered does not represent the vast vast majority of S/J shippers Most people have no issues whatsoever with other people having their OTP's, no matter if they include 'rival' ships. I have no problems whatsoever with people shipping Sam/Jack. I have several friends that do, and I consider you one of those as well

I've never understood why shipping one pairing would bother someone shipping another ('rival') pairing - especially in Stargate with all the multitude of parallel realities with room for all the ships you can imagine and then some! It's not like I enjoy shipping Sam/Lantash/Martouf less because some ship Sam/Daniel or Sam/Jack or whatever so it has confused me a little sometimes.

Actually, I'm sure most people probably doesn't engage in Stargate or other shows enough to even have OTP's

My OTP is Sam/Lantash/Martouf - and I write it like that because I like Lantash better than Martouf, though I adore them both. The fics I like to read are generally Sam/Lantash first and Sam/Martouf second, though I read both kinds (there are so few of the first kind). I prefer Martouf as Lantash's host - partly because he is HOT!

That said, I multiship fairly much, though not that many of my ships 'overlap'. I only really ship pairings that have Tok'ra (or Goa'uld) in them, probably since they are the only characters I really liked on Stargate.

It's true that they had men fall for Sam ridiculously easy, and they also killed them off with ridiculous ease. Both bothered me, since I saw it as bad writing. What is the challenge in writing like that? I initially wondered why Martouf and Lantash did not blame Sam for Jolinar's death, for instance, but maybe they are just very forgiving people? It is not like the Tok'ra in general or Martouf/Lantash seem to be especially forgiving - they're bloodthirsty enough when it comes to Apophis. Not that I blame them. Besides, in Serpent's Song they're all kind of blood thirsty - Teal'c in particular. Only really Janet there to protect Apophis

I hate when they kill off characters - even characters I dislike, but of course especially characters I like (incidentally, Sam is the only character left that I really like from all of SG-1, and I didn't like how she seemed to change during some of the later seasons).

I think it is an easy an unimaginable way out to just kill off characters - and many times it would be much more interesting to know they are still alive but just on a mission/missing/on assignment somewhere else/whatever and you know they could show up again - instead of the writers having to invent a new character with some of the characteristica. None of the characters get time to be fleshed out that way also, if you only really meet them for a few episodes. I like long arcs with the characters and I like that we get to know them! I also like re-seeing characters/races/planets/whatever many episodes later, seeing that the writers remember what they wrote and is building on the story from before. *deep sigh*

Most of all I would like to see more of the Tok'ra! More of BOTH host and symbiote. I want to see Lantash again, in Martouf, and I want Lantash in control half of the time or about. I want us to meet Malek's host. Why have we never seen him? I miss Anise and Freya (yes, I liked them). I want to see Jolinar again - what about a visit from another reality of Sam that kept Jolinar? Or perhaps Rosha and Jolinar both alive? That would be interesting! I want them to find Egeria's daughter, the Tok'ra queen!

Enough about my (sadly unrealistic) wishes. This is getting to be rather long, and I guess 90% have stopped reading already!

As for why Egeria is not on the list? No idea. She was in my pm to the mods. The only reason I haven't said anything further to them, is that I think they said it was difficult for them to change the poll (hence the oops, counted wrong) and I worried the votes already cast would disappear if they changed it.

[nebulan]

Don't worry, nebulan - I'm sure we all know that the few mean S/J shippers some of us have encountered does not represent the vast vast majority of S/J shippers Most people have no issues whatsoever with other people having their OTP's, no matter if they include 'rival' ships. I have no problems whatsoever with people shipping Sam/Jack. I have several friends that do, and I consider you one of those as well

I've never understood why shipping one pairing would bother someone shipping another ('rival') pairing - especially in Stargate with all the multitude of parallel realities with room for all the ships you can imagine and then some! It's not like I enjoy shipping Sam/Lantash/Martouf less because some ship Sam/Daniel or Sam/Jack or whatever so it has confused me a little sometimes.

Actually, I'm sure most people probably doesn't engage in Stargate or other shows enough to even have OTP's

I think people feel threatened when people don't like their OTP. No really, I remember when I was a freshman in college and went nuts for the Harry Potter fandom, I felt threatened (in a milder sense of the word) but those who didn't ship Ron/Hermione, I would need to defend my position. Now I hope I've matured some and don't get so riled up about something to so un-important. Might be part of the reason why I'm so much of a multishipper now, probably why I enjoy love-triangle music videos so much now.

And yeah, I agree, us fanatics are only probably about 10% of the watchers. And from my experience, most guys don't ship much at all. Tho I do know a couple who do.

That said, I multiship fairly much, though not that many of my ships 'overlap'. I only really ship pairings that have Tok'ra (or Goa'uld) in them, probably since they are the only characters I really liked on Stargate.

yeah, when I say "multiship" I usually don't mean more than one couple per fandom, but more than one pairing per person... I mean, I want, say, Sam/Jack to happen, but amuse myself with the idea of alternate realties or timelines and how HOT pairings such as Sam/Teal'c or Sam/Ba'al would be

I hate when they kill off characters - even characters I dislike, but of course especially characters I like (incidentally, Sam is the only character left that I really like from all of SG-1, and I didn't like how she seemed to change during some of the later seasons).

I think the writer for the show Gargoyles (Greg Weisman) said it best when he felt that killing off a character was shutting a door on more potential story. And I look back on it, 50 some episodes and now more comic books after the awesome but short-live animated show... they only ever killed off one re-occuring-character permanantly! And that was the arch-mage. They would kill characters the classic Disney way or something, you had no body to prove they were actually dead and a few episodes later they weren't... hehe. maybe wouldn't work so well for an adult-audienced show but I just loved seeing the villians come back! Well, ok, some I wished would stay dead.

I think it is an easy an unimaginable way out to just kill off characters - and many times it would be much more interesting to know they are still alive but just on a mission/missing/on assignment somewhere else/whatever and you know they could show up again - instead of the writers having to invent a new character with some of the characteristica. None of the characters get time to be fleshed out that way also, if you only really meet them for a few episodes. I like long arcs with the characters and I like that we get to know them! I also like re-seeing characters/races/planets/whatever many episodes later, seeing that the writers remember what they wrote and is building on the story from before. *deep sigh*

you know, I wonder if this is a girl thing (as opposed to the fact that most of the writers are males.) This is just going with the fact that female brains tend to focus on details, so we don't forget past characters so easily (now, I'm generalizing, there are of course always exceptions!) My sister gets really twitchy when they forget something, or something is unexplained or forgotten and will usually come up with ideas to explain it (like everyone speaking the same language). For example, what happened to Jonas?? Which Tok'ras are still alive? We never saw Anise, Malek or Jalen die, are they ok?? We'll never know I guess so we can suppose for ourselves.

Most of all I would like to see more of the Tok'ra! More of BOTH host and symbiote. I want to see Lantash again, in Martouf, and I want Lantash in control half of the time or about. I want us to meet Malek's host. Why have we never seen him? I miss Anise and Freya (yes, I liked them). I want to see Jolinar again - what about a visit from another reality of Sam that kept Jolinar? Or perhaps Rosha and Jolinar both alive? That would be interesting! I want them to find Egeria's daughter, the Tok'ra queen!

Well Skadi, this is why we have fanfic! to fill in the gaps. Alas I wish I could stand reading more than a few paragraphs of anything

Enough about my (sadly unrealistic) wishes. This is getting to be rather long, and I guess 90% have stopped reading already!

I'm still here, but I tend to misread things too...

As for why Egeria is not on the list? No idea. She was in my pm to the mods. The only reason I haven't said anything further to them, is that I think they said it was difficult for them to change the poll (hence the oops, counted wrong) and I worried the votes already cast would disappear if they changed it.

I'd be all for re-stating the poll! And taking Martouf/Lantash and Jacob/Selmak off and re-titling "Who's your 2nd favorite Tok'ra" and making sure Egeria makes the list
We can go ahead and give 1st and 2nd prise to Selmak and Lantash

[Hathor_girl]

I think people feel threatened when people don't like their OTP. No really, I remember when I was a freshman in college and went nuts for the Harry Potter fandom, I felt threatened (in a milder sense of the word) but those who didn't ship Ron/Hermione, I would need to defend my position. Now I hope I've matured some and don't get so riled up about something to so un-important. Might be part of the reason why I'm so much of a multishipper now, probably why I enjoy love-triangle music videos so much now.

And yeah, I agree, us fanatics are only probably about 10% of the watchers. And from my experience, most guys don't ship much at all. Tho I do know a couple who do.



yeah, when I say "multiship" I usually don't mean more than one couple per fandom, but more than one pairing per person... I mean, I want, say, Sam/Jack to happen, but amuse myself with the idea of alternate realties or timelines and how HOT pairings such as Sam/Teal'c or Sam/Ba'al would be



I think the writer for the show Gargoyles (Greg Weisman) said it best when he felt that killing off a character was shutting a door on more potential story. And I look back on it, 50 some episodes and now more comic books after the awesome but short-live animated show... they only ever killed off one re-occuring-character permanantly! And that was the arch-mage. They would kill characters the classic Disney way or something, you had no body to prove they were actually dead and a few episodes later they weren't... hehe. maybe wouldn't work so well for an adult-audienced show but I just loved seeing the villians come back! Well, ok, some I wished would stay dead.



you know, I wonder if this is a girl thing (as opposed to the fact that most of the writers are males.) This is just going with the fact that female brains tend to focus on details, so we don't forget past characters so easily (now, I'm generalizing, there are of course always exceptions!) My sister gets really twitchy when they forget something, or something is unexplained or forgotten and will usually come up with ideas to explain it (like everyone speaking the same language). For example, what happened to Jonas?? Which Tok'ras are still alive? We never saw Anise, Malek or Jalen die, are they ok?? We'll never know I guess so we can suppose for ourselves.



Well Skadi, this is why we have fanfic! to fill in the gaps. Alas I wish I could stand reading more than a few paragraphs of anything



I'm still here, but I tend to misread things too...



I'd be all for re-stating the poll! And taking Martouf/Lantash and Jacob/Selmak off and re-titling "Who's your 2nd favorite Tok'ra" and making sure Egeria makes the list
We can go ahead and give 1st and 2nd prise to Selmak and Lantash

I know what you mean about feeling threatened about people not liking your OTP, nebulan. I think the only reason I haven't really felt that way is a combination of me not starting to ship anyone really until quite recently (I just watched the shows and happily read fanfics putting everyone together (sometimes at the same time...*blush*). I've read mostly Star Trek fanfic before and I was happily oblivious of ship-wars (living in Sweden). I read Deanna Troi/whomever, gen, Bashir/Garak, Spock/Kirk, Spock/Chapel, Spock/Uhura, Dax/Kira, Dax/Worf (though I don't really like Worf, but...), Tuvok/anyone....*grin*
The other reason has more to do with me always having different opinions than most everyone else in school/high school so I was totally used to no one agreeing with me. So I guess I learned early not to care. *sigh*
Then I discovered Stargate and fell in love with the Tok'ra (and the Goa'uld). I now ship Rosha/Jolinar/Martouf/Lantash (sort of OT4), Sam/Jolinar/Martouf/Lantash, Sam/Martouf/Lantash, Hathor/Daniel, Hathor/Jack, Hathor/Sam, Hathor/anyone!

And I agree with the 'don't kill off anyone' you may want to reuse them and if you haven't killed them you don't have to invent a way to bring them back or create a new character with the same characteristics, more or less. However, I'm totally cool with bringing anyone back, even if we've seen them dead. It's sci-fi and if they have a creative way of doing so, I'll enjoy watching it (hell, I'll enjoy even a stupid way, but it doesn't mean I've forgiven them for killing Lantash, Martouf, Narim, Apophis, Hathor, Janet, Weir, Carson Beckett and a host of other WONDERFUL characters).

As well, I tend to get annoyed when they forget stuff that has happened earlier in the show or contradict themselves. I am nit-picker extra-ordinaire!

I love fanfic! It's my salvation as I totally stopped watching SGU after about 1/2 season. I got tired of SGA too. And SG-1 in later seasons. I guess I'm too critical!

Skadi (or whomever) do ask the mods to fix the poll?

[HorusGuard]

Hey heretics! You know you're all shol'vah!

Anyway, love the idea with the poll! We need one of those in the Goa'uld thread!

[Skadi]

*waves at HorusGuard* I'm happy to be a heretic...and I'm sure all of the Tok'ra agrees!

[BlueMushroom]

Absolutely!

[BlueMushroom]

I see you got the poll changed so Egeria is now in it! Great!

[BlueMushroom]

And my new sigs work! YAY!

[Skadi]

I see you got the poll changed so Egeria is now in it! Great!

Yes, I'm very happy she is in it now

And nice sig, BlueMushroom!

[RingThing]

Can you change your vote somehow?

[CaptJanson]

Can you change your vote somehow?

I don't think so.

[nebulan]

And my new sigs work! YAY!

took me a bit to realize they were rotating, wonderful Anise banners!!

[Snotr]

Hi everyone! I haven't been online much, but I'll try to do better!

Any new Tok'ra fic or art I should know about *hopes*