Tok'ra Thunk/Discussion/Appreciation thread

[Rush Fan]

*waves*Hello LtKatia. thank you for the welcome

[KJ_A]

The Sam/Jolinar picspams reminded me of a thought I have had before about "In the Line of Duty". What if Jolinar having looked through Sam's memories had decided that her survival in the face of the Ashrak threat would be best served by telling Hammond and SG-1 about her presence at the post-mission debriefing. Alternatively she could have, when discovered by Cassandra, simply waited with her until Janet got back and informed both of them about the truth.

How do you think things would have gone in such a situation? I think ether would make for an interesting scene to read in a fanfic.

[Skadi]

It would absolutely make for an interesting read. I think, here, both the fact that Jolinar is a Tok'ra, and that she is in a panic in a completely different surrounding is working against her. What I mean is that since she is a Tok'ra she probably would not go muck around in her hosts brain without permission - more likely lock her host out as much as possible and stay away from her memories, so she could leave Sam with as little future trouble for Sam as possible?

It would certainly have been interesting to see any of your suggestions. I don't know if SGC was ready to believe in a good Goa'uld, but perhaps. Teal'c had heard of the Tok'ra and of Jolinar and they seemed to be coming around to the idea. Maybe, if the ashrak had not come when he did, they would have talked to Jolinar and ended up believing her.
As it is, I think their safest bet (Sam and Jolinar) would be to not go to visit Cassandra - or perhaps to try and convince Janet that they are to be trusted.

Have you read MerryK's AU about Sam and Jolinar? It's here:

Compromised

[KJ_A]

Skadi,

I have read Compromised and have been reviewing it at FF.net since the day after Ch 1 was posted. It is probably my favorite SG-1 fanfic. I had been looking for something like it since I first found out about the events of "In the Line of Duty" back about the time season 3 was syndicated. I have read other fan-fics where Jolinar avoids Cassandra, escapes the SGC before they are aware of her, or gets abducted by the NID.

What I would like to see is one where she trust Sam or proves to Sam that she can be trusted by trusting her friends. Mainly I would like to see how such a scene as the debriefing would go if she just came foreword or if she decided not to scare Cassandra. Mainly I just have a lot of ideas for fan-fic that I am only just beginning to get organized enough to start outlining.

[Snotr]

KJ_A I hope you will write some of your fic ideas! I really like your ideas about Jolinar - and we always need more Tok'ra fic!

[KJ_A]

I am thinking about it. In fact after my last post I thought over what Skadi said about the SGC not being ready to accept good Goa'uld and came up with an alternative. That is what if when they are discussing why the Goa'uld attacked Nassia Jolinar seized to opportunity to remind Hammond that the Goa'uld wage war on each other just as much as on anyone else and that maybe there was a Goa'uld hidden on the planet. If she can get them looking for the Ashrak a day earlier than in canon they should be able to find and capture him before he finishes healing. If that were to happen and Jolinar avoided Cassandra it might be interesting to see Jolinar balance her own need for safety against doing right by her host and how she and Sam and come to terms with the situation they have found themselves in.

[Skadi]

That's actually an interesting idea. She could say that with Sam's voice and get them to look for the ashrak. At the very least it would highten the SGC's guard against someone hiding among the Nassyans. I think an interesting story could be written about that.

Another thing I've been thinking about; we know from the episode "Seth" that symbiotes can sense each other at a distance of approximately 50 feet, so why did Jolinar not detect the ashrak when she stood in the room looking at him? Or did she and decided to do nothing? Not very realistic, I guess. She can't have been able to sense him - maybe he was using that drug the Goa'uld in Kienna used? The one that blocks other from sensing the naquadah in the symbiote.

Then there are two other oddities in this episode, all related.

1) The ashrak seems to walk around looking for Jolinar, by using the hara'kesh to scan people. Why would he do that if he can sense her? Or do he think she's using the same drug perhaps? Another possibility may be that he's not scanning for her, but scanning their brain for information about her - we know there is some telepathic aspect to the hara'kesh, as the ashrak uses it to make at least two of the soldiers forget what happened. Maybe he's making people forget he interrogated them?

2) Teal'c doesn't sense Jolinar even if she is sitting in the same room, and sometimes standing right beside him. OK, I know this is more of a continuity problem for later episodes. He also doesn't sense the Tok'ra in Tok'ra I&II - actually no Jaffa senses a symbiote until episode 8 of season 5 ("the Tomb."). So I guess that's OK here - the error is in the season 5 episode.

[CaptJanson]

Hello everyone new I haven't greeted I'm not online so often for the time being, but you're all very welcome

Nice picspams, Skadi!

[Snotr]

That's actually an interesting idea. She could say that with Sam's voice and get them to look for the ashrak. At the very least it would highten the SGC's guard against someone hiding among the Nassyans. I think an interesting story could be written about that.

Another thing I've been thinking about; we know from the episode "Seth" that symbiotes can sense each other at a distance of approximately 50 feet, so why did Jolinar not detect the ashrak when she stood in the room looking at him? Or did she and decided to do nothing? Not very realistic, I guess. She can't have been able to sense him - maybe he was using that drug the Goa'uld in Kienna used? The one that blocks other from sensing the naquadah in the symbiote.

Then there are two other oddities in this episode, all related.

1) The ashrak seems to walk around looking for Jolinar, by using the hara'kesh to scan people. Why would he do that if he can sense her? Or do he think she's using the same drug perhaps? Another possibility may be that he's not scanning for her, but scanning their brain for information about her - we know there is some telepathic aspect to the hara'kesh, as the ashrak uses it to make at least two of the soldiers forget what happened. Maybe he's making people forget he interrogated them?

2) Teal'c doesn't sense Jolinar even if she is sitting in the same room, and sometimes standing right beside him. OK, I know this is more of a continuity problem for later episodes. He also doesn't sense the Tok'ra in Tok'ra I&II - actually no Jaffa senses a symbiote until episode 8 of season 5 ("the Tomb."). So I guess that's OK here - the error is in the season 5 episode.

I think the ashrak must have been using that drug - it makes sense, as he must often be hired to kill Goa'uld or Tok'ra who could otherwise sense him. Reasonably that he should use it - maybe the ashraks are actually who originally invented it and the Goa'uld in Kienna just is one of the first...uh...mainstream users

I'm going to go with the explanation that the ashrak had questioned people or feared they saw something and are now going around making them forget about it.

As for the last issue - yeah, they screwed up in later episodes, and Christopher Judge called them on it. They told him he remembered wrong! In any case - nothing wrong in this episode. The problem is with the latter ones.

[RingThing]

Maybe the ashrak or Jolinar don't have naq in their blood? Couldn't that be why?

[Hathor_girl]

Maybe the ashrak or Jolinar don't have naq in their blood? Couldn't that be why?

No. They both have naquadah. The ashrak uses the hara'kesh which is one of the weapons which doesn't have any visible controls and are thus mind controlled and only works if you have naquadah in the blood. Jolinar must have had naquadah since

1) That's why Cassandra felt her
2) Sam can use Goa'uld tech later because she has naquadah from Jolinar in her blood.

1) also shows that they had already decided that you can sense naquadah in others => the ashrak and Jolinar could sense each other => the ashrak must use the drug to hide and must be making people forget they were interrogated by Jolinar and not scan for Jolinar.

[KJ_A]

That's actually an interesting idea. She could say that with Sam's voice and get them to look for the ashrak. At the very least it would highten the SGC's guard against someone hiding among the Nassyans. I think an interesting story could be written about that.

That was exactly what I was thinking. If I wrote it the major character interaction elements would be centered around Jolinar trying to earn Sam's trust while keeping herself safe. For example Jolinar could let Sam have control but be censoring what she can say or write in regards to being a host. It would be an interesting dilemma for Jolinar to have to deal with as, with the Ashrak out of the way, she dose not want to take her host away from her home while at the same time she must protect herself and Sam. I can also see some interesting possibilities for Sam as she deals with the frustration of not being able to do anything about her situation that dose not involve working with Jolinar. Still there are a lot of details up in the air yet.

On another note has any one seen this new Sam/Jolinar fic yet?

Malkshur's Temple by Xashalya
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5450088/1/Malkshurs_Temple

[KJ_A]

i think the ashrak must have been using that drug - it makes sense, as he must often be hired to kill goa'uld or tok'ra who could otherwise sense him. Reasonably that he should use it - maybe the ashraks are actually who originally invented it and the goa'uld in kienna just is one of the first...uh...mainstream users

i'm going to go with the explanation that the ashrak had questioned people or feared they saw something and are now going around making them forget about it.

As for the last issue - yeah, they screwed up in later episodes, and christopher judge called them on it. They told him he remembered wrong! In any case - nothing wrong in this episode. The problem is with the latter ones.

The drug supposition issue is interesting. My problem with it is that the Goa'uld in Kianna Cyr had to take it once every 24 hours if I recall correctly. There however is no way for the Ashrak to do this in ITLOD as he is disabled due to burns for at least a day. However a way around this might be that he took a larger than normal dose the day of the attack on Nassia. If so the reason Jolinar looks oddly at him might be because of it only being partly affective.

As for the differences in the depiction of how Goa'uld can be sensed I agree more with the early seasons than the later ones. If Teal'c can scene them than it make what Sam can due less special and cheapens what she earned from her experience as a host. Also I did not know that Christopher Judge had caught them at this mistake. It is good to know seriously well the actors took their portal of their characters.

[Hathor_girl]

Makes sense - he could have taken a large dosis, and Jolinar just got a wiff of him maybe having naquadah?

I definitively think the early seasons make more sense than the latter. How should the Jaffa sense a symbiote? They don't have naquadah in the blood and they don't communicate with their symbiote, so ???? Btw. I've actually seen that argument somewhere on a fic, so others agree!

[Hathor_girl]

That was exactly what I was thinking. If I wrote it the major character interaction elements would be centered around Jolinar trying to earn Sam's trust while keeping herself safe. For example Jolinar could let Sam have control but be censoring what she can say or write in regards to being a host. It would be an interesting dilemma for Jolinar to have to deal with as, with the Ashrak out of the way, she dose not want to take her host away from her home while at the same time she must protect herself and Sam. I can also see some interesting possibilities for Sam as she deals with the frustration of not being able to do anything about her situation that dose not involve working with Jolinar. Still there are a lot of details up in the air yet.

On another note has any one seen this new Sam/Jolinar fic yet?

Malkshur's Temple by Xashalya
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5450088/1/Malkshurs_Temple

Nice, thanks for posting the link!