Tok'ra Thunk/Discussion/Appreciation thread

[BlueMushroom]

Selmak isn't the only one without fins - though she is the only Tok'ra without them. Apophis doesn't seem to have fins either (in the MRI of him from "Serpent's Song") and Junior doesn't either, along with other young symbiotes - yes, they may grow them later, but the symbiote-larvae in "Nightwalkers" already have pretty large fins, despite being less than a year (Sam ways they were cloned as infants and she mention a number of months ago - 8-10 months).

So - back to symbiotes look all kinds of ways and I think we should not judge that one way or another - they are all the same species and the f/x people just likes playing around.

[Skadi]

Hi! I've been busy because of RL, but I'll just quickly post the pictures of various symbiotes. They really do look very different from each other, but I assume (as many others have said) that it's just because the special effects people get more money/better technology/have different ideas, so I really don't think there is any reason to think too much about that. It's mention more than enough on the show that the Tok'ra and the Goa'uld are the same species, and only the philosophy differs because of Egeria changing their genetic memory (yes, she changed their genes, but why would she change them in any other area than that, when there are no reason to and we have never been told there is any other differences).
Regarding the fins - they're not what cuts into the host, those 4 long teeth in the corner of their mouths are. They do have other, normal teeth which are sometimes visible (for eating before they are in a host - they've not always been in Jaffa). The 4 large teeth seem to be retractable - we only see them extended when the symbiote are about to blend/shows off. That makes perfect sense - they would be in the way for eating, may potentially damage the host after blending, and need to be protected against damage. Oh, Jolinar actually takes a host through the neck, before Carter, so they can do it. Yes, I know - fanon says Jolinar is a converted Goa'uld.

(repost)
The symbiotes do seem to come in many skin colors, eyecolors, lengths, size/shape of fins, etc. Even the blood can be different colors! (It's red for the first seasons, then becomes blue, with the exception of Isis in the episodes "The Curse" - she had white blood!) Maybe some of it is an effect of the "code of life" they got from the intended host? Who knows. At any rate, here is some symbiote diversity:


Symbiotes infants:


Queen Egeria:


Another queen:


Amaunet:


Unknown, ally of Hathor:


Same guy as above:


Lantash - so Tok'ra are definitively not shorter than Goa'uld! Nor do they become small from having been in a host, nor do they loose their fins (all theories I've heard).


Lantash - head shot. Fins visible, though not extended (symbiotes seem to be able to raise/extend and fold their fins, much like many fish - again, very reasonable)


X-ray of Ocker and host:


MRI of Kawalski's symbiote:


MRI of Apophis:


Selmak:


Not sure who this is - maybe the guy who ends up in Adrian Conrad:


Klorel?:


Ba'al clone:


Some young cloned guys/gals (kids):



Tok'ra seem to blend differently - I've read that it's because they don't expect to have to strangle the host Could also just be Ocker who like sitting this way - or even something that happens because he's dead - maybe muscle spasms at the time of decapitation
Of course, I know well that the real reason is that the special effects guys wanted to show off the nice symbiote skeleton they had made, but we don't deal in reality just now

[Skadi]

I don't have a pic of Junior just now, and the same goes for a couple of other of the symbiotes we have seen - I'll try to track them down and post them. I'm not sure if we get a picture of Jolinar? Maybe on a scan?

The general trend is that the symbiotes seem to change appearence most drastically between the first 3 seasons and later - probably because they got more money for the special effects budget.

[RingThing]

New version symbiotes look quite different than old version. Unfortunately I think the old version looks way cooler than the newer. That's sometimes the case with Special effects - too much of a good thing. The original molded figure looking better than the CGI! (or whatever)

[RingThing]

I found this wonderful closeup of the ribbon device - I would dearly like to make one. Anyone have any suggestions to materials, etc.?

http://www.yourprops.com/view_item.php?movie_prop=26419

[techwork]

Ra a left this earth 5000 years ago and he was already have a sarcophagus.
Host Apophis taken from Earth. Of all the Goa'uld on Earth after escape of Ra was only Sokar, who maybe - Anubis. Seth and canned (Hathor, Isis, Osiris).
And to understand that differences between the Goa'uld and Tok'ra no errors creators of FX effects look episode 6.10.
Kelmaa - descendant of Egeria and looks like Selmak.
Yes, the few Goa'uld have come to Tok'ra side. But there were those who joined to Tok'ra. And besides seems to screenshots in theme Lantash is different color from Goa'uld. Different color - different genetic. Queen occasionally erred in production. That's where were taken the "good Goa'uld" to Tok'ra side after they lost Egeria.

[BlueMushroom]

The time Ra left Earth varies significantly between the movie and a couple of the episodes - from 2000 years ago, to 3000 years ago, to 5000 to 10000 (the movie) years ago. It's apparently not something they have decided on. Anyway - we've not seen Ra with a sarcophagus in the past, only in the current time (or in the time they visited him on Abydos, I mean). Apophis's host is taken from Earth, but unknown when - they kept going to Earth from hosts for a long time after leaving Earth. The only bit of information we get is that the host was a scribe ("Serpent's Song"):

DANIEL: "He was a scribe in the temple of Amon at Karnak, but that was another lifetime ago, before the…before the nightmare."

Since that temple existed/was in use from 1530 BC to 323 BC the host would have had to be taken somewhere in that time frame. So even if the sarcophagus is only 3000 years old, Apophis could easily have gotten the host after that.

We do not know which Goa'uld was on/visited Earth after Ra left. Telchak may have been as well, as well as many of those Goa'uld we hear of having gone to Earth for hosts. Yes, Seth was stranded on Earth for at least 3000 years according to Selmak (because they wondered how he got by without a sarcophagus and he said he could just change host every 400 years or so - no mention of the symbiote needing the sarcophagus), but that means he was stranded while other Goa'uld visited Earth.
For instance, Hathor was captured about 2000 years on Earth, stranded by Ra. So they must have visited from time to time.

The symbiote changes wildly in appearence all through the show, as lots of people have pointed out and Skadi has posted pics. I don't know why you think it is anything but f/x reasons? Anyway, this is the pic of Kelmaa - she doesn't look like Selmak and she has fins.

http://www.gateworld.net/gallery/alb...1_610_0918.JPG

The symbiotes have all kinds of colours - some are white, some are grey, some are reddish, some are greenish, some are black...

And there is no indication that the Goa'uld who changed to Tok'ra did so because of errors in their genetic makeup. They have never even hinted at that.

[BlueMushroom]

I found this wonderful closeup of the ribbon device - I would dearly like to make one. Anyone have any suggestions to materials, etc.?

http://www.yourprops.com/view_item.php?movie_prop=26419

Coolness! I really want one! I don't know, but maybe you could make one by cutting from a thin piece of metal? Or maybe make one out of some kind of mold-able plastic, perhaps. Anyone else have any ideas?

[BlueMushroom]

Just learned today that there is a Tok'ra fanfilm and that it has now been finished - and they seem to consider doing sequels! There are some technical issues, but I think it's really well done. It can be watched here:

http://www.tokraresistance.com/fanfilm.html

WOW - thanks for posting. I love it! We need more of that

[Snotr]

Hi guys! It's been a long time since I was logged in - lots of discussion here!

I've been invited to a party where we're told to dress up as our favourite alien (it's a sci-fi party). I considered going as a Tok'ra, but I think those uniforms is way to complicated to make, so I'm considering dressing as a Goa'uld instead. What do you think would be the easiest? Many of the Goa'uld are Egyptian and so are wearing Egyptian clothing, but I don't know - perhaps a loose white dress? And then some outrageous assessories? Any suggestions? I really suck at this!

[SamShipper]

Hi guys! It's been a long time since I was logged in - lots of discussion here!

I've been invited to a party where we're told to dress up as our favourite alien (it's a sci-fi party). I considered going as a Tok'ra, but I think those uniforms is way to complicated to make, so I'm considering dressing as a Goa'uld instead. What do you think would be the easiest? Many of the Goa'uld are Egyptian and so are wearing Egyptian clothing, but I don't know - perhaps a loose white dress? And then some outrageous assessories? Any suggestions? I really suck at this!

Hi Snotr! Nice seeing you again

What about dressing up something like Osiris? That shouldn't be too hard. He! is wearing a loose white dress and not much else - though it may be a bit see-through, I don't know



This is what Osiris wears later



(both pics snagged from Skadi's photobucket account. She usually doesn't mind, but I apologize just in case...)

[Jalnor]

Hello again, everyone! Been a tad busy and I got a new laptop so I didn't have all my usual tabs open, but I'm back now!
Oh, hey, they finished the Tok'ra fan film! Excellent - I'm surprised no-one linked it in the Tok'ra fan page on Facebook.
Time to go watch that! :-D

[Jalnor]

Also: The film's pretty good - I agree with their own assessment that there are a lot of things they could've done better, it screams "amateur" from start to finish, but they had a great idea and obviously put a lot of work into it. I can't wait to see some news on their sequel.

[Skadi]

Hi Jalnor! Yes, I agree their movie is interesting - they have some technical problems, but the story is great. I do hope they make a sequel!

[Skadi]

SamShipper - no problems! You're more than welcome to find pictures in my photobucket account

Snotr - I think dressing up as Osiris would be a good idea. His dress in the first episode we see him in shouldn't be difficult to make - then add some assessories perhaps - a large Egyptian-looking necklace maybe. Too bad a hand device is so difficult to do.